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07-24-2012, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cochrane, Alberta
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I have tons of thoughts and feelings on this topic, but I will keep it simple for now. The one thing I would like to ask those of you who have treaty cards is this:
What do all of you do when you encounter one of your own who obviously is not following the rules or abusing their privelege?
I applaud those of you (treaty card holders) who do practice ethics while hunting, even though the 'rules' that currently exist make it so that you can legally be 'unethical'.
However, I have seen it a few times already on this thread where people have mentioned how they are aware of first nations people who obviously don't care about conservation yet they themselves, or their elders don't do anything about it.
I would have way more respect for your culture (and I do already...just not on this topic) if you would police your own. Kinda like how Muslims were asking for the rest of the world to not hate them due to the actions of the extremist Muslims on 9/11. My thought was: well...you need to police your own. Expose those that are bringing shame to your culture. Same logic applies here IMHO.
If I had a brother that was bringing shame to the family because of his actions, I would be kicking his arse back in line.
And I am curious about the programs that Walking Buffalo speaks of. Are there discussions going on regarding conservation by sustenance hunters?
__________________
"You're gonna need a bigger boat!" - Martin Brody, 1975
"There seems to be alot of urinating in breakfast cereal around here." - Rackman, 2010
"It is true, there are dead beat dads out there, and there are thousands of dead beat moms too, who live off the efforts of good men trying to do the right thing." -KegRiver, 2011
"You have social media to thank for turning everyone into self-righteous know-it-alls.." -random internet dude, 2015
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07-24-2012, 12:56 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer
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This is actually a good thread,I have been hesitant to post as these threads always seems to go sideways.I must say I dont think most people have any idea what FN people are allowed to do regarding thier hunting rights.This is part of the problem.Walking Buffalo Has somewhat enlightend me.I would be interested in knowing more about it.I dont really think FN people are driving around the west country killing every thing they see.But I definately need more education regarding what thier rules really are.Glad to see this thread go on for so long,some good points made here.
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07-24-2012, 02:24 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Well jack and 7. If I stumbled on anyone commiting an offense, I would report them, regardless of who they are and what they did.
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07-24-2012, 07:59 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack&7
I have tons of thoughts and feelings on this topic, but I will keep it simple for now. The one thing I would like to ask those of you who have treaty cards is this:
What do all of you do when you encounter one of your own who obviously is not following the rules or abusing their privelege?
I applaud those of you (treaty card holders) who do practice ethics while hunting, even though the 'rules' that currently exist make it so that you can legally be 'unethical'.
However, I have seen it a few times already on this thread where people have mentioned how they are aware of first nations people who obviously don't care about conservation yet they themselves, or their elders don't do anything about it.
I would have way more respect for your culture (and I do already...just not on this topic) if you would police your own. Kinda like how Muslims were asking for the rest of the world to not hate them due to the actions of the extremist Muslims on 9/11. My thought was: well...you need to police your own. Expose those that are bringing shame to your culture. Same logic applies here IMHO.
If I had a brother that was bringing shame to the family because of his actions, I would be kicking his arse back in line.
And I am curious about the programs that Walking Buffalo speaks of. Are there discussions going on regarding conservation by sustenance hunters?
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Well spoken! Interesting points!
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07-24-2012, 08:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 17,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack&7
I have tons of thoughts and feelings on this topic, but I will keep it simple for now. The one thing I would like to ask those of you who have treaty cards is this:
What do all of you do when you encounter one of your own who obviously is not following the rules or abusing their privelege?
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I'd call in the plates to RAP
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Alberta Bigbore
Last edited by Alberta Bigbore; 07-24-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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07-24-2012, 08:48 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary
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it's my understanding the a native hunter must have in his/her possesion a letter from their respective band stating they are hunting for sustenance.
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07-24-2012, 08:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 17,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy
it's my understanding the a native hunter must have in his/her possesion a letter from their respective band stating they are hunting for sustenance.
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Nope...
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Alberta Bigbore
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07-24-2012, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: N/W Alberta.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
His questions were based on what a wardens opinions were about him choosing to only harvest mature males, as opposed to killing females, once again he believes in conservation, doesn't want to hurt population.
Personally I don't think were offending anyone and would like to keep it that way.
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they have the rights to do it. but something is not right in the styory. I wouldn`t touch the meat from a horned up critter.they taste real bad. always went for a dry cow. I geuss they call that poaching but that is how we lived until the government decided it was illegal an we have to take the stinky ones.that ended my hunting .always wondered if the hunters acually use the back leg they take with the head or do they only do it because they get a big fine if they{get caught]leave to much meat behind.
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07-24-2012, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy
it's my understanding the a native hunter must have in his/her possesion a letter from their respective band stating they are hunting for sustenance.
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They just need a treaty card. Also as spoke earlier I do like how this thread has gone because the important thing is informed opinions without things going haywire. So thank you walking buffalo for your knowledge and information. We are all here debating for the same outcome.....conservation. There does need to be change because if there is one thing in life that I have learned and works well in this situation is nothing in life is owed to anyone...so it would be nice to see a change in the future to curve the bad apples.
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07-24-2012, 10:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Keep it going guys...I think we're only about 5 pages or so away from a new no dust up record here... 
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07-24-2012, 10:15 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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When I originally posted this thread, I didn't think it would go 2 days before the lock.. Almost 5000 views later I hope it has been as insightful for a few others as it was for me, thank you to most of the viewers for keeping your posts for the most part tasteful
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07-24-2012, 10:17 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 17,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesky672
Keep it going guys...I think we're only about 5 pages or so away from a new no dust up record here... |
Ohhhh... there has been a few moments.
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Alberta Bigbore
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07-24-2012, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
So if you saw it with your own eyes, (a) what were you doing back there. And (b) why didn't you call the authority's if laws were obviously being broken?
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A: I was elk hunting if you must know. It is still open in November where as sheep was not in this zone. And you are allowed to look at sheep all year, correct me if I'm wrong. Even if it wasn't an open hunting season, are we not allowed in the forestry all year? Pretty ridiculous to ask a question like that.
B: Call the authorities and say what? It wasn't against the law. I strongly disagree with the law and the ethics, but 'm pretty sure court won't use my opinion for anything
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07-24-2012, 11:04 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore
Ohhhh... there has been a few moments. |
Shucks...thats just sparring.
It's not a real dust up till someone gets banned and we all get told its time for bed.
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07-24-2012, 11:15 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buglingbull93
A: I was elk hunting if you must know. It is still open in November where as sheep was not in this zone. And you are allowed to look at sheep all year, correct me if I'm wrong. Even if it wasn't an open hunting season, are we not allowed in the forestry all year? Pretty ridiculous to ask a question like that.
B: Call the authorities and say what? It wasn't against the law. I strongly disagree with the law and the ethics, but 'm pretty sure court won't use my opinion for anything
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Call the authorities and tell them they are subsistence hunters selling capes. That is illegal, unless your just speculating, in which maybe it would be fair to speculate these guys interrupted your sheep hunt. Try to base opinions on facts, that's will get you allot further in life.
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07-24-2012, 11:22 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
Call the authorities and tell them they are subsistence hunters selling capes. That is illegal, unless your just speculating, in which maybe it would be fair to speculate these guys interrupted your sheep hunt. Try to base opinions on facts, that's will get you allot further in life.
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You know what, your right. Cant assume exactly what someone will do after a kill. However, you will never change my mind to agree that hunting trophy rams, is necessary for subsistence hunting.
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07-24-2012, 11:32 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buglingbull93
You know what, your right. Cant assume exactly what someone will do after a kill. However, you will never change my mind to agree that hunting trophy rams, is necessary for subsistence hunting.
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And that's fine, however I am mearly trying to examine wether or not conservation has anything to do with subsistence hunting, does it make sence to harvest mature male animals in areas that are experiencing decline in numbers? If the subjects in question had shot 2 ewes they just killed 10 sheep. I'm sure they didn't kill every ram on the field. Personally as a treaty Indian myself I buy the sheep tag and play by the white guy rules... However I am killing him for his horns. And I'd appreciate if sustenance hunters would kill mature males Rather than ewes to give every one else a chance at seeing sheep for a long time to come. It's the same argument as to why you can't buy a ewe tag over the counter, to ensure herd futures.
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07-25-2012, 12:04 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,273
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2008 in Alberta 16500 animals were killed by a vehicles
of them 13300 were Deer
cost in insurance was 240 million
Food for Thought
David
ps is it mainly 2 spieces that are worrysome Rams and Bull Moose?
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07-25-2012, 01:31 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Iron River
Posts: 5,158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
And that's fine, however I am mearly trying to examine wether or not conservation has anything to do with subsistence hunting, does it make sence to harvest mature male animals in areas that are experiencing decline in numbers? If the subjects in question had shot 2 ewes they just killed 10 sheep. I'm sure they didn't kill every ram on the field. Personally as a treaty Indian myself I buy the sheep tag and play by the white guy rules... However I am killing him for his horns. And I'd appreciate if sustenance hunters would kill mature males Rather than ewes to give every one else a chance at seeing sheep for a long time to come. It's the same argument as to why you can't buy a ewe tag over the counter, to ensure herd futures.
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Getting the mature males is a wise decision in regards to herd health, but why not mimic nature and take the young of that year for food.
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07-25-2012, 07:29 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
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The idea of killing a ewe kills multiple sheep , or killing s doe kills multiple deer has been proven to be an archaic way of thinking in terms of conservation by the biology community.
If you read a few studies you will realize this.
Dick Idol, Charley Kroll, Leoanard Lee Rue, Valarius Geist, etc are some biologists and authors that will get you started.
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't! 
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07-25-2012, 04:32 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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hunting
Get it right, it's subsistance hunting for the natives not sustenance hunting....we all hunt for sustenance ie; FOOD.
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07-25-2012, 04:41 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
Personally as a treaty Indian myself I buy the sheep tag and play by the white guy rules....
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Good for you smokinjoe I applaud you. Now if we could get all subsistance hunters to do the same for at least sheep the province would be a better place. I think using my better judgement I should leave it there for now.
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07-26-2012, 06:47 AM
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 LONG LIVE THE METIS NATIONS DRAWS ARE SO OVERATED 
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07-26-2012, 02:38 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
Get it right, it's subsistance hunting for the natives not sustenance hunting....we all hunt for sustenance ie; FOOD. |
Yes, my iPhone doesn't seem to think it's a word tho and I got tired of trying to correct the word, so I just let it go now.
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07-27-2012, 09:48 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 773
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I 100% DO NOT and WILL NEVER support indians hunting rights in Kanada. It is ridiculous and has created a huge amount of racism. Equality for all!
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07-28-2012, 07:44 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 519
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Where is Kanada?
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07-28-2012, 08:13 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rycroft
Posts: 21,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
Where is Kanada?
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Canada or Kanata ???
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07-28-2012, 11:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 17,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACKMASTER
LONG LIVE THE METIS NATIONS DRAWS ARE SO OVERATED |
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Alberta Bigbore
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