Why? I only watched the first half of the video, but all I saw was a normal slaughter house operation, no different than if they were killing cattle or pigs. What I didn't see was panicked, stressed-out, tortured animals that you referred to in an earlier post. Horse slaughter houses are already happening, and the animal rights people already don't like them. But as SG already said, it's not those that we, as hunters, need to worry about. It's the ones (majority) that are currently sitting on the fence that we don't want to turn against us. I can just see it now when the first trophy shots of some guy, with the wild horse he just shot, hit AO. Or how about the following taxidermy shots a few months later? There would be a huge backlash just from this board, full of people that already hunt, alone. Can you imagine the outcry when the same pictures hit facebook? It would just make us all look like idiots. I still don't understand why anyone would want to go out and shoot a horse for pleasure.
Normal slaughter causes way more stress to non-domesticated animals than hunting does. Or do you dispute that?
They hate you already for your mounted deer head. The vast majority of people hate trophy hunters to begin with. Show them that the meat is being utilized and much of the anger goes away. A simple registration process like they have for cougars would ensure that carcasses are removed from the field.
Why would anyone want to shoot a bear, a wolf, a moose, a deer, or any other animal for pleasure. That does not deny that there is a subset of people who would hunt horses for meat. None of you have any good arguments against it other than the fact that non-hunters won't like it. You seem to believe that will cause a greater backlash than hunting already does. That is simply projection. You don't like the idea of hunting horses so no one should do it. Then you come up with arguments that you cannot realistically apply to any other animal.
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Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity.
So it's your OPINION that horses are not to blame. No FACTS to back that up. Just like everyone else.
Would take you up on your offer but don't live down there anymore.
Have I seen sign of horses in the west country? Absolutely. Is it the only cause of the elk decline? Of course not. Could it be part of the problem? I'd say yes. (see what I did there)
Now let us take one of your pictures.
I see over grazing and wallowing. Guess there is some impact from these animals.
Livestock belong behind a fence. I would say the same thing about cattle on ranges as well.
I have never seen a horse wallow in the mud. Ever. They roll in the dirt frequently, but I've never seen one wallow in the mud like a pig.
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Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
Normal slaughter causes way more stress to non-domesticated animals than hunting does. Or do you dispute that?
They hate you already for your mounted deer head. The vast majority of people hate trophy hunters to begin with. Show them that the meat is being utilized and much of the anger goes away. A simple registration process like they have for cougars would ensure that carcasses are removed from the field.
Why would anyone want to shoot a bear, a wolf, a moose, a deer, or any other animal for pleasure. That does not deny that there is a subset of people who would hunt horses for meat. None of you have any good arguments against it other than the fact that non-hunters won't like it. You seem to believe that will cause a greater backlash than hunting already does. That is simply projection. You don't like the idea of hunting horses so no one should do it. Then you come up with arguments that you cannot realistically apply to any other animal.
I have no issue with a guy shooting one and using it if it was a legal act. I'm just realistic enough to know that it will never be passed. And i am also smart enough to see that its not going to ever be a society accepted act. And how many will hunt them anyways? Guy don't eat it now when it's in abundance and is cheap, so why would they start because a hunt is opened?
LT give up ..ur proposition is for everyone to go out west and count terds ..the horsy's hafta go ..like Nait said "all of them "
and we know that Nait is a wise and wonderful god......still waiting on him to post what disease the horses are giving the other wild life and where this information can be found....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kauna
get ur self a wild feral pony and tie it up on ur front lawn ...save them ...
will you ever post anything that adds to this thread.you are starting to sound very much like a very young person. nothing to say but have to say it....
And what happens to those wallows when it rains? It gets muddy right?
Just saying that the pics do show an impact.
What wallows are you talking about? What you're seeing in that picture is a mineral lick, they're actually fairly common in those areas. I'd be willing to bet that if you had a close up look at the lick, not wallow, in the picture, you'd find it full of deer, elk, and moose tracks, and very few horse prints. At least that's what all the ones I've seen over the years have looked like.
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Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
And what happens to those wallows when it rains? It gets muddy right?
Just saying that the pics do show an impact.
And have you ever seen a lick before? That damage is as much from wild life as it is horses. I can take and show you larger ones that have never been touched by anything other than wild life! There are some huge ones around that horses have never have touched or damaged that show as much use as these do. Ever wanna see I'll take you anytime.
You really need to get out and look at these areas Donkey as you obviously are grasping.
I have no issue with a guy shooting one and using it if it was a legal act. I'm just realistic enough to know that it will never be passed. And i am also smart enough to see that its not going to ever be a society accepted act. And how many will hunt them anyways? Guy don't eat it now when it's in abundance and is cheap, so why would they start because a hunt is opened?
You would be surprised how quickly society can change to accept things. Take a look around at things that are legal now that weren't even 10-15 years ago.
I would bet that if you issued 100 tags a year you'd have more than 1000 people applying for them.
I am ultimately not disagreeing with you. I get your perspective. It does not mean that we should not push for a change in the way that people view these animals. They are not paragons of the wilderness or mystical animals. Yet sometimes it is portrayed that they are and are therefore above management.
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Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity.
And have you ever seen a lick before? That damage is as much from wild life as it is horses. I can take and show you larger ones that have never been touched by anything other than wild life! There are some huge ones around that horses have never have touched or damaged that show as much use as these do. Ever wanna see I'll take you anytime.
You really need to get out and look at these areas Donkey as you obviously are grasping.
Dodge, dip, dive, duck and dodge.
All I said is there is an impact from these animals. Your own pictures show it. Does it matter if its a mineral lick or a wallow? No it doesn't. Who is grasping at straws?
Livestock does not belong on crown land, regardless of how it got there.
All I said is there is an impact from these animals. Your own pictures show it. Does it matter if its a mineral lick or a wallow? No it doesn't. Who is grasping at straws?
Livestock does not belong on crown land, regardless of how it got there.
I simply stated them licks look the same without horses so you saying the horses are at fault is misguided! Just man up and say you don't want them there and they don't belong. Quit grasping on some excuse or reasoning that has no backing!!!
I simply stated them licks look the same without horses so you saying the horses are at fault is misguided! Just man up and say you don't want them there and they don't belong. Quit grasping on some excuse or reasoning that has no backing!!!
Go back through my posts, I have been very clear in what I have been saying. Horses have a place in this country, and that place is behind a fence.
Can't get more clear than that.
You are the one that keeps muddying the conversation.
Free roaming horse of north america can be traced to spanish landings 1519 . Only those with a longer heritage should be passing judgement .
the plains bison being wild should definitely be reintroduced given its actual "wild" linage . One or the other????? A horse hunt would bring a rain of poo down on AB hunting like mno other and turn many friendly land owners against hunters altogether.
and we know that Nait is a wise and wonderful god......still waiting on him to post what disease the horses are giving the other wild life and where this information can be found....
will you ever post anything that adds to this thread.you are starting to sound very much like a very young person. nothing to say but have to say it....
google is not playing nice with Master Nait right about now
All you have to do is insert "bunny" in place of "horse" in this thread to see how ridiculous it is. Brings to mind the well meaning idiots in Canmore trying to solve their bunny problem. Maybe we can sterilize or adopt them all out LOL. The fact is they are not native wildlife and don't belong on our landscape as such.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
and we know that Nait is a wise and wonderful god......still waiting on him to post what disease the horses are giving the other wild life and where this information can be found....
will you ever post anything that adds to this thread.you are starting to sound very much like a very young person. nothing to say but have to say it....
LT ...go away and grow up...do u really think ur pal shepcit is on the right track...the horses need to be removed
Go back through my posts, I have been very clear in what I have been saying. Horses have a place in this country, and that place is behind a fence.
Can't get more clear than that.
You are the one that keeps muddying the conversation.
My biggest issue is the finger pointing at the horses on issues in the west. These same issues can been seen and noted in areas with no horses. But yet people think that horse removal will solve these problems and it's not going to. That's why not one of you can show any shred of evidence. And why not one person accepted to go show this with me.
Fine horses in people's eyes have no place there. That's fine. Many people think they do have a place. But just say that and quit the blame game. There are other issues out there that are being overlooked because guys like you try and claim its because of the horses.
My issue isn't whether they should or shouldn't be there is all the cockamamie bs that guys try to justify their reasoning for them to be removed.
Free roaming horse of north america can be traced to spanish landings 1519 . Only those with a longer heritage should be passing judgement .
the plains bison being wild should definitely be reintroduced given its actual "wild" linage . One or the other????? A horse hunt would bring a rain of poo down on AB hunting like mno other and turn many friendly land owners against hunters altogether.
Many landowners bordering the range would welcome the removal.
Why is this.
More objectionable than this?
The Australians don't seem to have a problem in their hunting community with killing off a few horses. Yes, their anti-hunters post all kinds of tearjerking videos. But this is a country where they have already banned duckhunting in many states.
The Australians even mount them.
We stand up and try to educate people about wolves, grizzlies, and other species that are hunted . Why not horses? All of the excuses about not being palatable to the public are just bad excuses. If you can argue for any one of the other species you can argue for horses too.
__________________
Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity.
My biggest issue is the finger pointing at the horses on issues in the west. These same issues can been seen and noted in areas with no horses. But yet people think that horse removal will solve these problems and it's not going to. That's why not one of you can show any shred of evidence. And why not one person accepted to go show this with me.
Fine horses in somes eyes have no place there. That's fine. Many people do. But just say that and quit the blame game. There are other issues out there that are being overlooked because guys like you try and claim its because of the horses.
My issue isn't whether they should or shouldn't be there is all the cockamamie bs that guys try to justify their reasoning for them to be removed.
You keep attacking me. Let me remind you of my very first post in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey
I've said it before I'll say it again. Treat those horses the same as the horses at CFB Suffield. Round em up, anyone that wants can buy one if not off to Ft. MacLeod to be packaged for sale.
Sure there was an uproar about Suffield horses, lasted about a month and never heard from again really.
Horses built society in North America, I get that. Horses are a useful tool, I get that too. What I don't get is why a livestock animal that is a useful tool is being left to procreate uncontrollably out in the wild.
To me horses have a place, and that place is behind a fence.
Pretty clear where I stand on the issue. So Pat look up the definition of the word GOAN for me.
And what happens to those wallows when it rains? It gets muddy right?
Just saying that the pics do show an impact.
just incase you are not sure these are deer mineral licks not in an area that there are any horses look familiar. and when it rains you are right it gets muddy now you want to blame that on the horses too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey
Go back through my posts, I have been very clear in what I have been saying. Horses have a place in this country, and that place is behind a fence.
Can't get more clear than that.
You are the one that keeps muddying the conversation.
yes you have been making it clear what you have been saying just no facts as to why you are saying it..
horsy needs to go ..cause i said so .eats too much grass and chits all over the roads ...
Roads need to go too because I say so and the damage to much habitat and allow to many yo yo's into the west! But hey if there wasn't roads how would you ever see any of the west country.
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