F and W

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

Thanks Dave for clarifying the real cost.

I pay $300 a year for all my hunting tags so a one time expense of $375 for a trapping license for life seems pretty reasonable.

Just to add, most Locals seem to be either sponsoring Youth Attendees entirely or substantially. Brian is right 375 bucks is cheap for what you can get out of a course. I have taken the course twice and assisted on at least three other courses in our area and get a bunch of new ideas and techniques not to mention meeting some great people every time.

I would suggest the OP and his consortium of new trappers ALL take the course.

[H380]

Originally Posted by nekred

I can see both sides of this rant/story.....

It clearly states call to make an appt. What was the harm in coming back at 1:00 and writing it....

It takes up to an hour and with any test there are protocols to accomodate everyone.

Now if someone decided to give him the test and stay into their lunch would have there been a post about how somebody went above the call of duty?

The oilfield mentality of wanting everything now is one reason why our quality of life has actually gotten worse.

In past there used to be signs for when people would close early when business was slow to go look after their quality of live and it is something i thought we would support...

The singn said Simply..... GONE FISHING!

Beat me to it , well said .

[drake]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

Thanks Dave for clarifying the real cost.

I pay $300 a year for all my hunting tags so a one time expense of $375 for a trapping license for life seems pretty reasonable.

At this point it is a "nice to have"....not a "have to have". I am not doubting the courses value, but there are enough barriers to entering th trapping world without shelling out $375 for a course. Someday I will take it.

[RBI]

Originally Posted by nube

Ya I guess I am too old fashioned and would got he extra mile or take one for the team kinda guy. There were 2 officers and one front desk lady from what my buddy saw in the office. I just thought it wouldn't take much for one of them to pend an extra 10 or 15 min in the office and delay the lunch a bit is all.

agreed that it would be nice if everybody went " above and beyond " now and then , but in some cases that doesn't always work.

Case in point , if one gives equal time to both sides of the issue , it can perhaps look like this....
If that officer were to stay/postpone his lunch hour , to make time for somebody that should or shouldn't know to be there then , and takes his lunch hour a half hour late , then what happens to the guy that knows to come in a 1 o-clock and is told that the officer won't be back for 30 or so minutes because he bent the rules for someone else.
If you were that guy, following the rules , how would you feel ?

Not picking a side ... just trying to see both sides ...

My thoughts , maybe not yours

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by RBI

agreed that it would be nice if everybody went " above and beyond " now and then , but in some cases that doesn't always work.

Case in point , if one gives equal time to both sides of the issue , it can perhaps look like this....
If that officer were to stay/postpone his lunch hour , to make time for somebody that should or shouldn't know to be there then , and takes his lunch hour a half hour late , then what happens to the guy that knows to come in a 1 o-clock and is told that the officer won't be back for 30 or so minutes because he bent the rules for someone else.
If you were that guy, following the rules , how would you feel ?

Not picking a side ... just trying to see both sides ...

My thoughts , maybe not yours

first thing I thought of....... by doing it, would throw everything after it out of sync....this thread sounds a little " Alberta entitlement syndrome".

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by martinnordegg

Just to add, most Locals seem to be either sponsoring Youth Attendees entirely or substantially. Brian is right 375 bucks is cheap for what you can get out of a course. I have taken the course twice and assisted on at least three other courses in our area and get a bunch of new ideas and techniques not to mention meeting some great people every time.

I would suggest the OP and his consortium of new trappers ALL take the course.

I think it's more of a time thing than a money thing. A lot I guys work 10 and 4 shifts, so that makes it pretty difficult to do a two week end course.

If it were a two day course, I think a lot moe people would take it.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

I think it's more of a time thing than a money thing. A lot I guys work 10 and 4 shifts, so that makes it pretty difficult to do a two week end course.

If it were a two day course, I think a lot moe people would take it.

True enough, some shift schedules would not work unless it was scheduled to fit for purpose. I believe the ATA would accommodate a variation of the 5 day evening course and the full field daywith enough students. In any case if a person does not have time to take the course in his/her schedule I would wonder if they would really be able to operate either as a Resident Trapper or an RFMA holder in a diligent manner.

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

Thanks Dave for clarifying the real cost.

I pay $300 a year for all my hunting tags so a one time expense of $375 for a trapping license for life seems pretty reasonable.

you don't have to buy a liscense every year if you do the trapping course?

[Bushmonkey]

i should add, what deters me from doing the course is the fact that I would have to pay for room/food and not be home from start to finish for the course.

Not possible with work.


They did offer the course once where I live, but the hours did not work with my job.

[nube]

So the end of the story is that he called to set an appointment and the lady said no need for an appointment. He went in again and all worked out well for everyone. He got %90 on the test and now has his license. All is well.

Also has there or will there ever be a course in Edmonton? I know I could benefit from a few courses.

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by martinnordegg

True enough, some shift schedules would not work unless it was scheduled to fit for purpose. I believe the ATA would accommodate a variation of the 5 day evening course and the full field daywith enough students. In any case if a person does not have time to take the course in his/her schedule I would wonder if they would really be able to operate either as a Resident Trapper or an RFMA holder in a diligent manner.

I would say a person could diligently trap muskrats 2 days a week, or 4 days every two weeks. Or snare coyotes, for that matter. They wouldn't put up the same numbers as a full time trapper, or some body that takes time off to do it, but as long as he or she is happy doing it that's up to them.

As for me, and I think I represent a lot of typical oilfield construction workers. And I priorities for my time. I don't have time to do a lot of the things I'd like to do, like hunting for a week at a time, or run a serious trap line. But, I do have time to go out with my 3 year old, and get a quarter of my plans accomplished, trap a few rats, and let him carry them back.

I took the course, 4 days, and looking back I probly wouldn't have taken it. 4 days is just too long. And the days are too short. 2, 10 hour days would have been sufficient.

That's my take on it, anyways.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

I would say a person could diligently trap muskrats 2 days a week, or 4 days every two weeks. Or snare coyotes, for that matter. They wouldn't put up the same numbers as a full time trapper, or some body that takes time off to do it, but as long as he or she is happy doing it that's up to them.

As for me, and I think I represent a lot of typical oilfield construction workers. And I priorities for my time. I don't have time to do a lot of the things I'd like to do, like hunting for a week at a time, or run a serious trap line. But, I do have time to go out with my 3 year old, and get a quarter of my plans accomplished, trap a few rats, and let him carry them back.

I took the course, 4 days, and looking back I probly wouldn't have taken it. 4 days is just too long. And the days are too short. 2, 10 hour days would have been sufficient.

That's my take on it, anyways.

I hope in the future you will have more time to do what you wish with your family in the outdoors. Work interfered with me for 35 years.. now it's my turn. Good luck trapping!!

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by nube

So the end of the story is that he called to set an appointment and the lady said no need for an appointment. He went in again and all worked out well for everyone. He got %90 on the test and now has his license. All is well.

Poof!! An instant investor......I mean trapper!! Everyone likes a happy ending to a story.

Also has there or will there ever be a course in Edmonton? I know I could benefit from a few courses.

Google is your friend.

[tonnage]

The challenge course offered by Fish and Wildlife is being discontinued. If you want to trap in Alberta, you are going to have to take the Standard Trapping Course through the ATA whether you like it or not. That's the way it should have been years ago. Too many take the ridiculous challenge course, head afield and haven't got a clue what they are doing. Then the rest of us run around doing damage control. Take the course!!

[bullgetter]

I have taken the course in the past and hope my wife will someday. Trapping is not for her but she does take interest in what I am doing out there alll day. The kids will definetly be taking it someday. They don't have to trap either but I don't know of a better way to teach them properly.

[moose maniac]

Originally Posted by tonnage

The challenge course offered by Fish and Wildlife is being discontinued. If you want to trap in Alberta, you are going to have to take the Standard Trapping Course through the ATA whether you like it or not. That's the way it should have been years ago. Too many take the ridiculous challenge course, head afield and haven't got a clue what they are doing. Then the rest of us run around doing damage control. Take the course!!

I was glad when it was announced way overdue

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by tonnage

The challenge course offered by Fish and Wildlife is being discontinued. If you want to trap in Alberta, you are going to have to take the Standard Trapping Course through the ATA whether you like it or not. That's the way it should have been years ago. Too many take the ridiculous challenge course, head afield and haven't got a clue what they are doing. Then the rest of us run around doing damage control. Take the course!!

I agree this should have been discontinued a long time ago. This will bring a real standardization of Trapper Education to this Province. The ATA have a good Manual and Course format and excellent Instructors. If all the courses have to go through the ATA then I guess the Bushman and Trapper Gord courses are no longer recognized.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by martinnordegg

I agree this should have been discontinued a long time ago. This will bring a real standardization of Trapper Education to this Province. The ATA have a good Manual and Course format and excellent Instructors. If all the courses have to go through the ATA then I guess the Bushman and Trapper Gord courses are no longer recognized.

The announcement was that all new Trappers would require a Trappers course, not that all courses would have to be conducted by the ATA. I doubt that Bushman and Trapper Gord will have to stop conducting courses. If anything, they'll have to schedule more courses to get the people who would have normally just challenged the test, trained.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The announcement was that all new Trappers would require a Trappers course, not that all courses would have to be conducted by the ATA. I doubt that Bushman and Trapper Gord will have to stop conducting courses. If anything, they'll have to schedule more courses to get the people who would have normally just challenged the test, trained.

The just challenge exam being removed is a positive step. The private schools maybe not so much. At least there are some decent standards in order to obtain a licence.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by martinnordegg

I agree this should have been discontinued a long time ago. This will bring a real standardization of Trapper Education to this Province. The ATA have a good Manual and Course format and excellent Instructors. If all the courses have to go through the ATA then I guess the Bushman and Trapper Gord courses are no longer recognized.

The Trapper Education course in Alberta was developed in conjunction with the Canadian trappers standards, of which are recognised worldwide as the global standard for humane trapping practices.

A trappers course taken in Alberta is recognised across Canada.

The trapping challenge test should never have been started. Same with the hunter education online test. These are the things that have helped start the degradation of our hunting and trapping heritage.

[ditch donkey]

If the course is mandatory, then the instruction should also be standardized, with training for the instructors, and a set curriculum to abide by. Other wise it becomes a mandatory fee, not mandatory education.

The idea of a mandatory course is fine. I took the course, it was ok. Certainly learnt some things. But, I would not recommend the course to anyone, based on my experience.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

I took the course, it was ok. Certainly learnt some things. But, I would not recommend the course to anyone, based on my experience.

I didn't take the course but based on the duration of it I don't think that there'd be a lot of extra time for hands on stuff and only enough time to cover what is in the manual anyway. I figured that I didn't need to attend a course just to have someone read the manual to me. For me, with being able to have the time to thoroughly research everything in the manual and cross reference things on the internet, I think that it was a better way of learning for me but not everyone.

IMO, and based on what I needed to know after learning what was in the manual, an extra "hands on" day tacked onto the two days of learning what was in the manual would be beneficial. Physically seeing/making sets and handling fur is just as important as learning what is in the manual IMO.

One weekend learning the manual and one weekend of hands on training setting traps and processing fur would make for the perfect course IMO.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

If the course is mandatory, then the instruction should also be standardized, with training for the instructors, and a set curriculum to abide by. Other wise it becomes a mandatory fee, not mandatory education.

The idea of a mandatory course is fine. I took the course, it was ok. Certainly learnt some things. But, I would not recommend the course to anyone, based on my experience.

I attached my certificate that I had to take to continue instructing trapping. I blotted my name and dates out out to save myself some grief with the anti trappers.

Unless it has changed... when I taught the trapping course ( up until 2000) it was standardized and I did have to take an Canadian trappers instructor training course in conjunction with AVC and the provincial gov't.

The classroom curriculum is the instructors responsibility to make a set lesson plan according to the trapping manual and the Canadian trapping industry standards. If they are being paid and not doing this...hmmm.

The course is supposed to set the standard for trapping in Canada. Canada is recognised globally for its humane trapping practices and fine furs.

If the instruction is not in place anymore, then I am sad. It could mean the demise of trapping as the standards in the teaching erode.


Footnote:
And I will say that although I was an instructor does not make me any better than any other trapper. Trapping requires dedication, a lifetime of learning, hard work and experience. I instructed trapping because it was my passion and I wanted to keep the tradition alive. I was instrumental in organizing some of the first trapping courses back in the early 1980's too. I also volunteered going into gr.4&5 classrooms and speak about the historical fur trade of Alberta.

So if I seem opinionated and maybe sound like a know-it-all I mean it with the best of intentions and from my personal experience/s.

Red Bullets

[nube]

Hey Red, how bout your invited up to my line one season and some hands on instruction? That would be ideal for me. This year may not be the best as I think I should do some exploring and get to know the line a bit better but in the future it would be something I would be interested in if it worked for you?

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by nube

Hey Red, how bout your invited up to my line one season and some hands on instruction? That would be ideal for me. This year may not be the best as I think I should do some exploring and get to know the line a bit better but in the future it would be something I would be interested in if it worked for you?

There always is the possibility of going out on the line with you. 25 years ago I used to hunt the area you are going to be trapping so I know the basic territory.

The first year will help you understand what is involved and what is required to be successful. A little bit different than trapping as a resident trapper. Much more territory to cover. New animals to learn. Trails to mend. And a good assessment of your animal populations to help you make a good fur management plan for your line. Record keeping and documentation alot more too.

Wish I was 30 years younger again. I'd do it all over again.
I never did own a longline and did most of my trapping as a resident and county trapper (short term). I did make longline sets for animals residents can't set for, (eg. lynx), when I was instructing in the longline country.

[ditch donkey]

So if I seem opinionated and maybe sound like a know-it-all I mean it with the best of intentions and from my personal experience/s.[/I]

Red Bullets[/QUOTE

No worries Red. And let us be clear, if I seem like a know it all, nothing could be farther from the truth. I have tons to learn. I may even learn that trapping is not for me, and give it up. I'm right at ground level.

And I agree that a course should be mandatory. There is too much to lose in the way of public perception, not to have some type of accepted, united guide lines. But, I remember getting in my car at the end of the course, and being very angry, that I bothered to take it. I only drove about an hour and fifteen. Some folks got hotel rooms, and meals.

I'm sure there are some great courses out there, but I had a poor expierience.

[Red Bullets]

Hey DitchDonkey,

Sorry to hear that the course went like that for you.

Although you do not recommend the course to anyone...it will be mandatory if and when the online test is phased out.

I would think the instructors still have to present the course materials in their own teaching style and not teach their own agenda.

I will say that the course (as I remember it) is worth taking for first timers with no or little previous exposure to trapping. For people that grew up around trapping, the course is maybe some old material for the most part.

But 95% of a trappers education begins when you get into the field and do the trapping.

I hope you do not give it up. There is nothing better to keep you in touch and close to the land and animals.

[Wilderness]

I would have stayed a little longer but I enjoy delayed breaks. Makes the day seem shorter when you get back from them