ANOTHER school shooting. -Florida-

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Had a bet with my Uncle from Montana this fall while elk hunting that US needs more gun control like restricting AR-15's. He claimed we had just as many shootings in Canada on per population basis. I looked it up on computer and US has mass shooting average of almost one per day. In Canada we had 4 in last 20 years. Some restrictions on military guns works, when will US open their eyes.

The AR-15 has not always been restricted in Canada. How many mass shootings in Canada involved AR-15 rifles before they became restricted? Which firearm model was involved in the Montreal massacre? Is it restricted? Why not, seeing as how that incident actually was responsible for most of our firearms laws?
As for this incident, would the people be any less dead if he had pulled the fire alarm to get everyone grouped together outside, and then driven a pickup into the mass of people?

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Same old same old!

The same old "Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims"

In my opinion they need to do more than just pray. The USA needs to do something!

The NRA needs to do more than just protecting the rights of gun owners. The NRA should also be responsible for protecting people from gun crime.

It should be illegal for politicians or any political party to accept donations from the NRA.
:a ngry3:

The NRA does help protect people from gun crime however they are not in the field of mental health which is the actual problem. This would be the responsibility of the people and government not a gun rights organization.

And your right there should be less corporate donations to the government.
You are also right every teacher in America should be a member of the NRA.

My heart goes out to those affected by this tragedy.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

So this makes it ho hum, like the Oilers losing again? The world is going to hell in a hand basket, and guns are a big part of the problem!

Nope. The problem is single parent homes, lack of accountability, me first mentality, the inability to self filter social media use, religious indifference, and the list goes on.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by 223MB

Happens here as well, may not be as frequent but it still happens.
A bunch of innocent kids/teachers get slaughtered but hey who cares right.

Well I guess Americans don't really care cuz unlike other countries they can't be bothered to do anything about it.
So far 18 school shootings in the first 44 days of 2018.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by chuck

Nope. The problem is single parent homes, lack of accountability, me first mentality, the inability to self filter social media use, religious indifference, and the list goes on.

Religious indifference ????? I bet most, if not all of these shooters identify as "Christian".

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

It's become part of their culture down there.

I rest my case.

And they are proud of it.........

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Well I guess Americans don't really care cuz unlike other countries they can't be bothered to do anything about it.
So far 18 school shootings in the first 44 days of 2018.

How many were gang related?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Well I guess Americans don't really care cuz unlike other countries they can't be bothered to do anything about it.
So far 18 school shootings in the first 44 days of 2018.

So what are they going to do? They could lock up anyone that indicates that they might be potentially dangerous, but that wouldn't go over well in the USA. They could restrict certain firearms, but someone deranged enough to kill people isn't going to care if the firearm that he uses is restricted, he probably doesn't plan on even being taken alive, so It's not like he cares about facing an extra charge. And if he can't legally get a firearm, he can get one illegally, or he can simply choose another weapon like a vehicle. How do you eliminate mental health issues,

[Diesel_wiesel]

Mental Illness is a major problem that is on the rise in both Canada and the US of A , it is miss understood and hard to diagnose
people need to be taught to be more aware of the signs pot smoking in many cases leads to, alcohol and
hard drugs addictions at early ages, ( and our politicians are pushing to legalise this stuff , home and child abuse growing up is another cause
unless these problems are dealt with severely , these things like school or mass public shooting are going to keep happening,
can you imagine the torment that these people go through in their own heads and minds before they snap??? and do a terrible thing like a mass shooting,
its a sad thing for both sides of the fence, because the person was a nut case
imagine what was going on undetected in his mind,
people need to also be more educated on fire arms and what they are capable of, before being allowed to acquire one, some people the only, education they get is off of tv or the movies, and believe that is reality,
it all is I huge picture that has to be dealt with properly,
where do they start , where do they end??

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

The NRA does help protect people from gun crime however they are not in the field of mental health which is the actual problem. This would be the responsibility of the people and government not a gun rights organization.

And your right there should be less corporate donations to the government.
You are also right every teacher in America should be a member of the NRA.My heart goes out to those affected by this tragedy.

I never even suggested that every or any teacher should be a member of the NRA.

I am one that thinks the NRA cares little for individual gun rights but fans the fear of loss of those rights to back their real agenda. I think their real agenda is to back opposition to anything that might slow down the manufacture and supply of firearms.

Yes mental illness is a problem, but what makes the problem worse is easy access to weapons of choice which seems to be AR type rifles.

When it came down to it the NRA party even opposed legislation against bump stocks.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what are they going to do? They could lock up anyone that indicates that they might be potentially dangerous, but that wouldn't go over well in the USA. They could restrict certain firearms, but someone deranged enough to kill people isn't going to care if the firearm that he uses is restricted, he probably doesn't plan on even being taken alive, so It's not like he cares about facing an extra charge. And if he can't legally get a firearm, he can get one illegally, or he can simply choose another weapon like a vehicle. How do you eliminate mental health issues,

How do they prevent these issues in other countries? Or does America just have a massively higher incidence of mental instability compared to every other country in the world ??

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel

Mental Illness is a major problem that is on the rise in both Canada and the US of A , it is miss understood and hard to diagnose
people need to be taught to be more aware of the signs pot smoking in many cases leads to, alcohol and
hard drugs addictions at early ages, ( and our politicians are pushing to legalise this stuff , home and child abuse growing up is another cause
unless these problems are dealt with severely , these things like school or mass public shooting are going to keep happening,
can you imagine the torment that these people go through in their own heads and minds before they snap??? and do a terrible thing like a mass shooting,
its a sad thing for both sides of the fence, because the person was a nut case
imagine what was going on undetected in his mind,
people need to also be more educated on fire arms and what they are capable of, before being allowed to acquire one, some people the only, education they get is off of tv or the movies, and believe that is reality,
it all is I huge picture that has to be dealt with properly,
where do they start , where do they end??

They've considered it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/o...-buy-guns.html

[wags]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You people are pathetic, at best.

The guy was a psycho. He could have done the same damage with any variety of methods.

And you blame the NRA? Talk about out of touch.

But he didn't, he used a gun.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

He could have used explosives, or a vehicle, or gasoline, the problem is the criminal, not what he chose to use as a weapon. It's too bad the scumbag was taken alive.

But he didn't, he used a gun.

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Calgary's biggest mass-murder was committed by a mentally ill young man armed with a knife. Blaming guns is a cop-out.

18 mass shootings so far in 2018. How many does Canada have in history?

Originally Posted by Newview01

That is simply false. The media has their own criteria for mass shooting that they use to justify control.

No they don't.

The United States' Congressional Research Service acknowledges that there is not a broadly accepted definition, and defines a "public mass shooting" as one in which four or more people selected indiscriminately, not including the perpetrator, are killed, echoing the FBI definition of the term "mass murder"

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

How many were gang related?

Don't believe any of them were. Too bad you didn't notice them on the news - many others did.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

They've considered it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/o...-buy-guns.html

^^^^^^^^

""Congress continues to bend to the will of the gun industry. ""

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The AR-15 has not always been restricted in Canada. How many mass shootings in Canada involved AR-15 rifles before they became restricted? Which firearm model was involved in the Montreal massacre? Is it restricted? Why not, seeing as how that incident actually was responsible for most of our firearms laws?
As for this incident, would the people be any less dead if he had pulled the fire alarm to get everyone grouped together outside, and then driven a pickup into the mass of people?

That actually isn't as lethal.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I never even suggested that every or any teacher should be a member of the NRA.

I am one that thinks the NRA cares little for individual gun rights but fans the fear of loss of those rights to back their real agenda. I think their real agenda is to back opposition to anything that might slow down the manufacture and supply of firearms.

Yes mental illness is a problem, but what makes the problem worse is easy access to weapons of choice which seems to be AR type rifles.

When it came down to it the NRA party even opposed legislation against bump stocks.

Shouldn't you be over on the hunting forum trying to get more legal hunting banned.

The NRA is an organisation that fights for the rights of sane people to own and use firearms.

They are no more responsible for the insane than farmers are responsible for obesity.

ISIS has already moved on from firearms in most all cases because they are one of the least effective weapons to instill terror. Bombs, knives, motor vehicles and aircraft are all much more effective.

This is a hunting, shooting, fishing and trapping forum. Being anti any of these is your personal business but do you really think this is the venue to voice your views?

[AdAMxr]

Going through my news feed this morning scrolled right through the Florida 17 dead school shooting headline. Stopped and read the article about how a 10year old died in a ski accident at castle mountain. Thought to myself wow that's sad. Looking back after I was amazed how mass shooting have become so commonplace that I didn't even stop to think about it.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Religious indifference ????? I bet most, if not all of these shooters identify as "Christian".

Who cares? I’m talking Society in the USA. Not the individual.

[wags]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Shouldn't you be over on the hunting forum trying to get more legal hunting banned.

The NRA is an organisation that fights for the rights of sane people to own and use firearms.

They are no more responsible for the insane than farmers are responsible for obesity.

ISIS has already moved on from firearms in most all cases because they are one of the least effective weapons to instill terror. Bombs, knives, motor vehicles and aircraft are all much more effective.

This is a hunting, shooting, fishing and trapping forum. Being anti any of these is your personal business but do you really think this is the venue to voice your views?

The NRA is one of, if not the highest contributor to political members. The direct reason is to ensure they have people to allow laws to go through that don't impeded the sale of guns.

This is a hunting, shooting, fishing and trapping forum. None of these have to do with what is happening in the US.

ISIS has moved on to more primitive means because of the restrictions around the world to help stop weapons ending up in their hands. This is why you have to take your shoes off before getting into the boarding area of an airport - restrictions.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by chuck

Nope. The problem is single parent homes, lack of accountability, me first mentality, the inability to self filter social media use, religious indifference, and the list goes on.

This is so bang on. Yet some refuse to accept it. Studies to back up all of this have been out for some time.

[markg]

When you ban something it does not mean that thing will go away. We have banned drugs they are still here. We make it illegal to speed, people still drive fast.

Banning guns wont stop gun crime. Human beings have been killing each other for a very long time. It is a sad part of what we are. In modern times we have just gotten better at it. I dont see there being any solution to this problem.

It is just very sad. I wish there was something a person could do to make it better, but that just isnt possible.

[wags]

Originally Posted by Newview01

This is so bang on. Yet some refuse to accept it. Studies to back up all of this have been out for some time.

How is the States the only country with these issues?

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by wags

This is why you have to take your shoes off before getting into the boarding area of an airport - restrictions.

.....because of ONE failed attempt......

18 school shootings in the US so far this year and.....nothing done.

Your example fails to support your argument well.

[BloodHound70]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Yes, I believe the media is partly to blame. But more gun control will not result in less gun problems.

More? How about some. Why is it necessary for regular citizens to have access to stuff like AR15's and the like, or to able to have a side arm walking into a local 7-11? They are so gun crazy down there that the first thing that crosses someones mind is to grab my gun and "make'um pay!!!".
I for one would love to carry a sidearm while out in the bush, but unfortunately it is the donkeys of the world that ruin it for everyone.
The "right to bare arms" in the states is just carried way to far. They need some sort of happy medium.
To expect everyone will be responsible in the future so 'keep everything the same' is ridiculous. Something needs to change. Burying your head in the sand thinking something will change without doing anything is the definition of insanity.
Go to a birthday party of 8 year old in someones back yard and give them all baseball bats. It won't take long before little Johnny smashes someone over the head with his. Is it the fault of all the other kids that Johnny did it, no, but do you let everyone keep walking around with their bats, nope........Its a sad reality we live in now.

BH

[funclint03]

Pretty bad when the Onion sums it up better than most...

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-p...ocialMarketing

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what are they going to do? They could lock up anyone that indicates that they might be potentially dangerous, but that wouldn't go over well in the USA. They could restrict certain firearms, but someone deranged enough to kill people isn't going to care if the firearm that he uses is restricted, he probably doesn't plan on even being taken alive, so It's not like he cares about facing an extra charge. And if he can't legally get a firearm, he can get one illegally, or he can simply choose another weapon like a vehicle. How do you eliminate mental health issues,

Ok so here is my take on this, it is exceptionally easy for an American to get a firearm like an AR15 the ability and parts to make these weapons high capacity and automatic again are exceptionally easy to do.
I do not argue that mental health is not the underlying issue in 99% of these cases but it is often very hard to detect someone suffering.

Now yes he could drive a car into a crowd or build a bomb but those things are actually regulated, common bomb building materials require special licences or are flagged let alone they aren't that easy to build or get in place plus there is always that chance of blowing yourself up. It's pretty hard to drive a car into a school provided they actually own one and yes you could buy a gun off the black market but again most of these mass shooters don't exactly "roll with the crowd" where you would attain a black market firearm and half of them are so anti social they would never do it plus the chances of asking the wrong people and getting caught are high just like attaining bomb building materials.

So yes purchasing a firearm for "home defence" "like a good American" is the easiest way to complete a mass shooting in the states. If you remove some of the ease these individuals might get caught doing something another way or might not do it at all.

I just cant understand why so many people have a problem admitting it and would instead prefer to blame the underlying issue of mental illness that is hidden by more than 50% of those suffering from mental illness and isn't going to be fixed anytime soon, than how easy these weapons are to lawfully attain in the states. Have enough children and innocent people not already died for people to see this?

[markg]

Originally Posted by wags

How is the States the only country with these issues?

People are killed with various methods all over the world. Cars, knives, bats, bombs, and other things. Its very sad. Humans just seem to have a proclivity for killing each other. It would be wonderful if we didnt. I would like to live in a much safer world. I just am of the opinion that the only person i can rely on to keep me safe is me. Laws and banning things are not effective.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by wags

The NRA is one of, if not the highest contributor to political members. The direct reason is to ensure they have people to allow laws to go through that don't impeded the sale of guns.

This is a hunting, shooting, fishing and trapping forum. None of these have to do with what is happening in the US.

ISIS has moved on to more primitive means because of the restrictions around the world to help stop weapons ending up in their hands. This is why you have to take your shoes off before getting into the boarding area of an airport - restrictions.

Because that is what they are suppose to be doing-backing the lawful use of firearms NOT raising your children or financing the government's irresponsibility in the care of the mentally ill.

People have be finding innovative ways to kill each other for thousands of years. That will remain unchanged no matter what weapons are available. I would be very careful what you wish for because who knows what the new weapon of choice will be.

This sort of thing never happens in Europe or Asia. I would feel much safer strolling down the streets of Syria, Iran, France, Germany, Turkey, Afghanistan than anywhere in that wild unruly USA.

This is a tragedy sparked by mental illness. The stress of single parent homes, divorce and the working poor are taking a toll on the children. We were designed to be part of a stable family nucleolus and unfortunately many are not. Two tax payers and a child care worker also paying taxes is much more profitable for government than a traditional family so expect nothing to change.

AND NO, I am not condemning two income families as the majority do fine. I am saying that parents do not have the option to care for children that need more attention as it is financially impossible for the vast majority.

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by markg

People are killed with various methods all over the world. Cars, knives, bats, bombs, and other things. Its very sad. Humans just seem to have a proclivity for killing each other. It would be wonderful if we didnt. I would like to live in a much safer world. I just am of the opinion that the only person i can rely on to keep me safe is me. Laws and banning things are not effective.

Cars, knives, bats and bombs are all possible and beside the bombs legal to purchase but can you explain why these things haven't been used in mass killings as commonly as firearms in the states?

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by markg

When you ban something it does not mean that thing will go away. We have banned drugs they are still here. We make it illegal to speed, people still drive fast.

Banning guns wont stop gun crime. Human beings have been killing each other for a very long time. It is a sad part of what we are. In modern times we have just gotten better at it. I dont see there being any solution to this problem.

It is just very sad. I wish there was something a person could do to make it better, but that just isnt possible.

Why is the number of incedents so much higher in the US than other countries then? Your argument would make sense if that wasn't the case.