Ali#1, you were right about Arizona.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Hey Boots. I'm a Christian. People are not things. Jesus is not a thing. I am not a thing. You are not a thing. What are your trying to over analyse?

Sorry.
Just trying to state that Jesus was a real human. Many people don't believe he existed.
That's all I meant.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by ehntr

This is absurd. Anything in heaven refers to the sun, stars, planets, moon, etcs................the stuff people create images of today....to worship. It is absurd to say that God forbids an image of Jesus and to bow down to Him and worship Him. There is no Christian that would agree to that. A person who understands words and the context that they were written in should be able to understand the commandment. You have an agenda to distort, confuse and refuse to accept that the writer means something only you can interpret. In fact, you know the truth of that commandment, it has been revealed to you.....yet you remain obstinate.

So you can just change it to suit your needs ?

How bout working on the sabbath should we still stone people to death who do that ? Or was god meaning something else when he said that ?

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

No more biased than Hitchens and his opinions on God.

Did you read the article? Or do you not just because of the name of the organization producing the findings?

Just because most of the archaeologists that work for BA are Christian or Jewish it doesn't mean they aren't using credible scientific methodologies for the work they do. It stands to reason that you should be curious about their work and findings precisely because you've been asking for proofs - and that's exactly what they are trying to do - prove what the Bible is saying from a historical perspective using the science of archaeology to do it. Yet when they do just that you 'pooh-pooh' their findings because of their basis for engaging in the work they do! Tell us: would it give the exact same findings any more credibility if they were discovered by atheist secularist humanists?

Maybe you ought to open up your mind a little more and see what believers working in the field have to say before dissing their work. Now that would be applying those critical thinking skills you hold so highly

If I came on here quoting a place called athiest geology you would be appalled and rightfully so. It's a bias website that already has an answer before you ask the question. I already know what it's gonna say, quote me an I dependant website with Independant geologists that have found actual things.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by ali#1

How bout working on the sabbath should we still stone people to death who do that ? Or was god meaning something else when he said that ?

Yeah, Jesus apparently took heat for that too...

But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath." (Matt. 12:2, IIRC)

He had a response for that...

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by ali#1

No images of heaven above seems pretty straight forward to me.

You are just picking and choosing and making claims of understanding things that you have no clue Just to be argumentative and suit your petty agenda.

Cafeteria atheist? I do not know what you are nor do I care. I suspect for some reason you do not feel worthy of having a relationship with God or your creator or whatever you think may have ignited the big bang. Deep down you feel unloved and angry and must oppose people who seem happy and content with the notion of intelligent design.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

You are just picking and choosing and making claims of understanding things that you have no clue Just to be argumentative and suit your petty agenda.

Cafeteria atheist? I do not know what you are nor do I care. I suspect for some reason you do not feel worthy of having a relationship with God or your creator or whatever you think may have ignited the big bang. Deep down you feel unloved and angry and must oppose people who seem happy and content with the notion of intelligent design.

I guess it's true then, ignorance is bliss.

[covey ridge]

Ali,
You said:
But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath." (Matt. 12:2, IIRC)

I have no problem with the quote but we both know that IIRC at the end is BS. You are a googler and a cut and paste guy and now your seem to be a person who will lie.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

I guess it's true then, ignorance is bliss.

That said Ali#1 must be one of the most blissful souls in the world

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by ali#1

If I came on here quoting a place called athiest geology you would be appalled and rightfully so. It's a bias website that already has an answer before you ask the question. I already know what it's gonna say, quote me an I dependant website with Independant geologists that have found actual things.

Why would I be appalled at that? I've read plenty of stuff written by non-Christians. In fact, and this might be shocking to you, the Christian university and seminary I attended and hold degrees from even encouraged us to do so. It's called, and I'll spell it slowly for you, 'e d u c a t i o n'.

Note: I posted that link because we were taking about ARCHEAOLOGISTS and ARCHEAOLOGY, not GEOLOGY and GEOLOGISTS. You've tried to change the channel again! You must have been fun to teach in school

Let me ask you another question or three (although I don't know why since you refuse to answer pretty much most other questions asked of you): suppose an archaeologist found something of importance on a dig site, perhaps a piece of pottery with a name on it. That archaeologist shared his / her finding and what it affirms with you.
Are you going to challenge the credibility and authenticity of what that 'actual thing' is and proclaims on the basis of that archaeologist's faith or non-faith?
Will you accept it if he/she is a secularist / humanist / atheist?
Will you reject it because she / he is a person of faith?

Think carefully how you answer .

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Where exactly does the book (I assume you mean the Bible) say it has all the answers? C'mon prove what you say!

Hey Mistagin...................this is the greatest Ronald Reagan Quote.

I'm sure you will appreciate it. The Bible does not say it has all the answers........but the answer is in the book.

Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face. – Ronald Reagan

I don't mean this to take-off into a Ronald Reagan bashing thread........so let the mans legacy RIP.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by ali#1

So you can just change it to suit your needs ?

How bout working on the sabbath should we still stone people to death who do that ? Or was god meaning something else when he said that ?

Wrong. The meaning is clear. It is precise. Jesus is not a thing. I detect one or two" things" in ref to your reasoning or lack thereof: your failure to comprehend english; or you understand the commandment but will argue that black is white (obstinate). The greatest commandment of all: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

You are just picking and choosing and making claims of understanding things that you have no clue Just to be argumentative and suit your petty agenda.

Cafeteria atheist? I do not know what you are nor do I care. I suspect for some reason you do not feel worthy of having a relationship with God or your creator or whatever you think may have ignited the big bang. Deep down you feel unloved and angry and must oppose people who seem happy and content with the notion of intelligent design.

How can I be a cafeteria athiest I think it's all garbage.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Wrong. The meaning is clear. It is precise. Jesus is not a thing. I detect one or two" things" in ref to your reasoning or lack thereof: your failure to comprehend english; or you understand the commandment but will argue that black is white (obstinate). The greatest commandment of all: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."

So

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

This seems pretty straight forward to me.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Why would I be appalled at that? I've read plenty of stuff written by non-Christians. In fact, and this might be shocking to you, the Christian university and seminary I attended and hold degrees from even encouraged us to do so. It's called, and I'll spell it slowly for you, 'e d u c a t i o n'.

Note: I posted that link because we were taking about ARCHEAOLOGISTS and ARCHEAOLOGY, not GEOLOGY and GEOLOGISTS. You've tried to change the channel again! You must have been fun to teach in school

Let me ask you another question or three (although I don't know why since you refuse to answer pretty much most other questions asked of you): suppose an archaeologist found something of importance on a dig site, perhaps a piece of pottery with a name on it. That archaeologist shared his / her finding and what it affirms with you.
Are you going to challenge the credibility and authenticity of what that 'actual thing' is and proclaims on the basis of that archaeologist's faith or non-faith?
Will you accept it if he/she is a secularist / humanist / atheist?
Will you reject it because she / he is a person of faith?

Think carefully how you answer .

If there were actual proof from an independant source I would listen absolutely.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by ali#1

So

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

This seems pretty straight forward to me.

It is straightforward. You have been told and retold and told again. Jesus is not a thing. Jesus is God. Images of things in heaven are the "things" you see in heaven, like the stars.....I can show you but I cannot make you understand.

Instead of just coming back with one liners why don't you attempt to understand or at least refute the explanation I give to you? Answer: You cannot refute it without revealing your lack of comprehension. I do not believe you have a lack of comprehension. Therefore, I believe you are trolling.

Are you a thing or a person?

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by ehntr

It is straightforward. You have been told and retold and told again. Jesus is not a thing. Jesus is God. Images of things in heaven are the "things" you see in heaven, like the stars.....I can show you but I cannot make you understand.

Instead of just coming back with one liners why don't you attempt to understand or at least refute the explanation I give to you? Answer: You cannot refute it without revealing your lack of comprehension. I do not believe you have a lack of comprehension. Therefore, I believe you are trolling.

Are you a thing or a person?

I understand you are breaking a commandment and explaining it away through excuses. It's says no graven images that means no images Of a dead Jesus. The few times I do got I church I see images of Jesus all the time.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by ali#1

If there were actual proof from an independant source I would listen absolutely.

Then you should know that when an archaeologist working on Biblically connected work presents findings that verify something or someone attested to in the Bible it is verified by numerous peers - both from among those of various faith perspectives and from, as you wish, independent sources. In fact, when a Biblical archaeologist finds something like that it is usually held to a higher standard of scrutiny than anything else - thus making such a find even more credible .

Now you may well ask how I know that. Well, I happen to know a few archaeologists and those who work in the field of verifying such finds - one of them is my own son - who currently hold 2 degrees in the discipline - one of them with a Middle-Eastern emphasis !

So now I encourage you to go back and check out those links and the finds they bring forward, check out how they've been verified and by who in the field. And I urge you to 'listen' carefully to the truth they proclaim - not just on the basis of 'the Book' but also on the scientific methodologies used to 'prove' what they prove .

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I understand you are breaking a commandment and explaining it away through excuses. It's says no graven images that means no images Of a dead Jesus. The few times I do got I church I see images of Jesus all the time.

It's true.
You don't comprehend.
Jesus is the Son if God.
God said do not idol worship things of himself.
You see things of Jesus.....not God.
Big difference.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I understand you are breaking a commandment and explaining it away through excuses. It's says no graven images that means no images Of a dead Jesus. The few times I do got I church I see images of Jesus all the time.

Please define 'images'.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Boots270

It's true.
You don't comprehend as usual.
Jesus is the Son if God.
God said do not idol worship things of himself.
You see things of Jesus.....not God.
Big difference.

I thought Jesus was god himself ? Didn't god impregnate Mary with himself or is that another version of the same religion that believes that ?

What exactly does the third commandment mean then ?

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Please define 'images'.

Jesus on a cross. Graven Image.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by Boots270

It's true.
You don't comprehend.
Jesus is the Son if God.
God said do not idol worship things of himself.
You see things of Jesus.....not God.
Big difference.

And yet in this very thread many times has been said Jesus is God. Strange? I aways wondered about that one. You know, Jesus is the son of god, even thou in the bible he refers to himself as a son of Man, Jesus is the lord and saviour, graven images, false gods all that stuff. To confusing.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

And yet in this very thread many times has been said Jesus is God. Strange? I aways wondered about that one. You know, Jesus is the son of god, even thou in the bible he refers to himself as a son of Man, Jesus is the lord and saviour, graven images, false gods all that stuff. To confusing.

Christianity is very confusing to say the least.
And I'm no theologian in any way shape or form.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Then you should know that when an archaeologist working on Biblically connected work presents findings that verify something or someone attested to in the Bible it is verified by numerous peers - both from among those of various faith perspectives and from, as you wish, independent sources. In fact, when a Biblical archaeologist finds something like that it is usually held to a higher standard of scrutiny than anything else - thus making such a find even more credible .

Now you may well ask how I know that. Well, I happen to know a few archaeologists and those who work in the field of verifying such finds - one of them is my own son - who currently hold 2 degrees in the discipline - one of them with a Middle-Eastern emphasis !

So now I encourage you to go back and check out those links and the finds they bring forward, check out how they've been verified and by who in the field. And I urge you to 'listen' carefully to the truth they proclaim - not just on the basis of 'the Book' but also on the scientific methodologies used to 'prove' what they prove .

What have they found that has proven a guy named Jesus exhisted ? They have been in Egypt for hundreds of years and found numerous things like tombs and mummies an that's older than Jesus time, why can't they find anything that links a guy named Jesus to actual events ?

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

And yet in this very thread many times has been said Jesus is God. Strange? I aways wondered about that one. You know, Jesus is the son of god, even thou in the bible he refers to himself as a son of Man, Jesus is the lord and saviour, graven images, false gods all that stuff. To confusing.

It is pretty confusing, probably because they just make it up as they go along.


First there was no heaven or hell, then there was, then there was pergatory an now there isn't. It is hard to keep up really.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by ali#1

What have they found that has proven a guy named Jesus exhisted ? They have been in Egypt for hundreds of years and found numerous things like tombs and mummies an that's older than Jesus time, why can't they find anything that links a guy named Jesus to actual events ?

Now would be the best time for you to stop talking.
You are just proving your unknown education.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Boots270

Now would be the best time for you to stop talking.
You are just proving your unknown education.

And who are you to question me ?

Get in line with all the other fans of mine.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Ali,
You said:
But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath." (Matt. 12:2, IIRC)

I have no problem with the quote but we both know that IIRC at the end is BS. You are a googler and a cut and paste guy and now your seem to be a person who will lie.

Ali,
It has been brought to my attention that I accused you of the cut and paste quote above that you did not cut and paste. For that I am sorry and plan to be more careful in my reading.

[Boots270]

Originally Posted by ali#1

And who are you to question me ?

Get in line with all the other fans of mine.

Haha
I'm not questioning you.
I'm stating the fact that you do not understand this issue and that you are a glutton for punishment. You are like watching a schoolyard fight and keep losing but you keep trying.
You bring it upon yourself.
Why?
Only God knows.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Jesus on a cross. Graven Image.

Jesus on a cross is not a graven image. Jesus is not an idol. Jesus is not a thing. Jesus is God.