The Truth about the Whisker Biscuit vs Drop down

[jayboots]

Just some back ground on my review about the Whisker.

Myself like many other got the WB on as part of a package deal. I figured great! arrow wont full out well hunting, more stable, and maybe even more quiet.....

I bought my PSE Sinister in August of 2014, more as an upgrade from my old 1996ish Nova. The nova had a quick drop rest on it, and boy would it group nice! but serious drop once you hit the 35-40 yard mark.

So after a ton of reviews, and because I was happy with the Nova, and with my budget i figured the Sinister was the next bow for me.

Long story short... grouping: not great, arrow vine life: horrible! like 10 shots and your vines would be ripping off.

So back to the drawing board.. start reading and researching tons, learned this is a common problem with the whisker ontop of a loss for speed... (people saying 10fps loss others saying that its BS)

Anyway, I decide to change my arrow rest for the LimbDriver Pro V. Before i put the Limbdriver on I decided to do some speed test.

With WB, on a PSE sinister, 65lbs, 31in draw, and shooting 340Grain + 100grain field point arrows my avg speed was between 267 and 273 so an AVG of 270fps.

With the Limbdriver Pro V drop down rest. same bow, same everything. speed between 278 and 280 so avg of 279fps.
There you go. its been proven, 9-10fps faster with a dropdown over a whisker

Both test were taken with a Caldwell Chronograph at 5 feet past the end of bow.

With Limbdriver, Grouping improved instantly and I even notice its a lot more quieter

So there you have it.. if you currently have a whisker and your vines are getting ripped off, feel your bow should be shooting faster, and grouping not as good as you want, seriously think about upgrading to a drop down rest.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Someone here once claimed they got 56fps MORE by only adding a whisker biscuit....

LC

[NayNay]

Try tuning your bow.

I don't shoot a WB but with the numbers and vane carnage you are claiming something isn't right. Do you have the proper sized WB for your arrows?

Maybe you bought edmhunters old bow lol

[NayNay]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Someone here once claimed they got 56fps MORE by only adding a whisker biscuit....

LC

Lefty beat me to it haha

[jayboots]

Originally Posted by NayNay

Try tuning your bow.

I don't shoot a WB but with the numbers and vane carnage you are claiming something isn't right. Do you have the proper sized WB for your arrows?

Maybe you bought edmhunters old bow lol

Lol brand new Bow so I don't think so. Got my bow tunes before I did anything, vanes were worse on the 4in vs the thicker 2in. Thicker 2in would last a lot longer. The bow shops never said anything about it not being the right size so I'm sure it was good. Don't know what you mean by the numbers I'm claiming. That is what the Chronograph told me.. Doesn't really matter, a lot happier with the drop down now! Haha

[jayboots]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Someone here once claimed they got 56fps MORE by only adding a whisker biscuit....

LC

That's some funny &$$ stuff right there! Hahaha doesn't even follow the rules of science with all that friction and disturbance that happens when the arrow goes through the WB haha

[NayNay]

Originally Posted by jayboots

Lol brand new Bow so I don't think so. Got my bow tunes before I did anything, vanes were worse on the 4in vs the thicker 2in. Thicker 2in would last a lot longer. The bow shops never said anything about it not being the right size so I'm sure it was good. Don't know what you mean by the numbers I'm claiming. That is what the Chronograph told me.. Doesn't really matter, a lot happier with the drop down now! Haha

I'm sure Neil will be along soon enough to explain the whole WB thing a little better. From my personal experience with friends that had WB's the speed loss should only be 1-2 fps if anything out of a properly setup/tuned bow. Cheers

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by jayboots

That's some funny &$$ stuff right there! Hahaha doesn't even follow the rules of science with all that friction and disturbance that happens when the arrow goes through the WB haha

Oh yah....you don't have to convince me!

LC

[NayNay]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ht=ugly+cookie

Take a read through this

[albertabighorn]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Someone here once claimed they got 56fps MORE by only adding a whisker biscuit....

LC

Lol i was here for that one ahaha

[albertabighorn]

Originally Posted by NayNay

I'm sure Neil will be along soon enough to explain the whole WB thing a little better. From my personal experience with friends that had WB's the speed loss should only be 1-2 fps if anything out of a properly setup/tuned bow. Cheers

X2 new bows still need to be tuned. Also whisker bis need to be tuned (installed prob) usually 3-5 fps loss of speed. There is no way it was set up correctly if you were ripping viens. Neil is an expert on them he should have some insight for you.

[jayboots]

Maybe I'll give the whisker another chance from my younger brothers bow. For now I'm quite happy with the limbdriver and not switching back

[kujoseto]

I really like having my wb. Compared to my brother's qad, it's more quiet. I've had no problems with blazer vanes with it. I think a hunter using a properly set up wb is at no disadvantage to a hunter using a drop away rest. I really love the simplicity and containment as I'm trekking through the bush chasing elk. If I were to ever try a drop away, I'd be interested in the limb driver

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by jayboots

Just some back ground on my review about the Whisker.

Myself like many other got the WB on as part of a package deal. I figured great! arrow wont full out well hunting, more stable, and maybe even more quiet.....

I bought my PSE Sinister in August of 2014, more as an upgrade from my old 1996ish Nova. The nova had a quick drop rest on it, and boy would it group nice! but serious drop once you hit the 35-40 yard mark.

So after a ton of reviews, and because I was happy with the Nova, and with my budget i figured the Sinister was the next bow for me.

Long story short... grouping: not great, arrow vine life: horrible! like 10 shots and your vines would be ripping off.

So back to the drawing board.. start reading and researching tons, learned this is a common problem with the whisker ontop of a loss for speed... (people saying 10fps loss others saying that its BS)

Anyway, I decide to change my arrow rest for the LimbDriver Pro V. Before i put the Limbdriver on I decided to do some speed test.

With WB, on a PSE sinister, 65lbs, 31in draw, and shooting 340Grain + 100grain field point arrows my avg speed was between 267 and 273 so an AVG of 270fps.

With the Limbdriver Pro V drop down rest. same bow, same everything. speed between 278 and 280 so avg of 279fps.
There you go. its been proven, 9-10fps faster with a dropdown over a whisker

Both test were taken with a Caldwell Chronograph at 5 feet past the end of bow.

With Limbdriver, Grouping improved instantly and I even notice its a lot more quieter

So there you have it.. if you currently have a whisker and your vines are getting ripped off, feel your bow should be shooting faster, and grouping not as good as you want, seriously think about upgrading to a drop down rest.

Theres several points here...lol


First if you WB is faster than your last set-up...apparently there were issues with that set- up

If speed loss is that great an issue was a foot...

First the biscuit should be very loose fit on the arrow...one should actual see daylight on the top and top sides of arrow in the biscuit...any tighter and you will have these speed issues...

Biscuit lean slight top towards string dampens noise and friction...arrow has to be tuned...arrow centered on Berger[rest bolt hole] Nock point 1/4 -5/16 above 90 degrees bottom of standand arrow for center shot..


If a arrow is fish tailing, porposing, or both oscillating then significant speed loss will of course occur...

Most I have seen is 3-4 FPS...if that bothers some ...most people are not maxed out on limbs.. a simple 1/4 turn will make up that speed...not noticible on bow weight but regains the speed...

Issue with arrow Vanes...an big indicator that there is an issue...arrow is fish tailing, porposing, or both oscillating or simply bad glue...
Ugly Cookies [WB] like the stiffer vanes...Blazers and/or Duravane Savages for 4" vanes...the softer type vanes will wrinkle is used regular...but hold if glue is good...

We apply a drop of glue to front and back of all vanes for all use...

I am presently using 4" savage vanes...had some issues with Bohning Platnium [bad batches...glue may have been frozen at some point] and are now using Goat Tuff high preformance Cyanoacrylate glue...Cyanoacrylate glue is instant or fast setting Super Glue type ...and its working very well..

http://www.goattuffproducts.com/index.php?op=11

But I shoot these arrows litterly thousands of shots with no vanes peeling off or wrinkling...

As far as accuracy...I was fourtunate to shoot two triple Robin hoods...only rest I have done that in 40 plus years is with the Ugly Cookie [WB]
My last bow out of the box shot 8 normal Robin hoods with first 80 arrows...a testiment to modern equipment and Ugly Cookie's potential accuracy...BTW certainly not my skill as I have to work hard just to shoot consistant...

I have hunted with the WB at the artic circle...mountains, Borral forest, prairie desert and all temps in beteen and never once had a failure with The Ugly Cookie...yet seen many Drop away issues on these same adventures so everything can/will/has issues...

The Whisker Biscuit is not for everyone...not everyone can set them up properly and even some cant shoot them properly...a relaxed grip and follow thru is manatory...as with any rest thou IMHO!!

I power hunt Elk and IMHO the Ugly Cookie has been the reason for so much of my success...its foolproof, Tuff and no moving parts...[with exception of whiskers] and is the best durable hunting rests made hands down...IMHO

Neil

[FallAirFever]

I've shot a QAD and WB. Liked them both but prefer the cookie. It is simple and I like that. I've shot a few robin hoods since I've started archery. My one and only at 30 yards with the cookie. So I would be hard pressed to believe there are significant accuracy gains with a drop away in my limited experiance.

I never did chrono either of the rests but speed isn't something I'm overly worried about.

I have never had an issue with vane damage.

My belief is that you had an issue with tuning not equipment.

[jayboots]

You can only get your bow "tuned" so many times before your just fed up and need a change. I'm happy to see that the whisker works for guys, it works for my Old man also. I just was stating personally findings in my case. And if you looks else where lots of people have vine issues with ripping, wrinkling, or gouging unless they are using the 2in Blazers vanes as they seem to hold up better.. I still managed to knock one of them off so that is why I was frustrated.

Again, glad to see that it works, if it didn't I'm sure they wouldn't still be for sale. take the chronograph numbers as you see it, that is the results I got, and my WB had more then enough daylight around the arrow so I know it wasn't too small. And I had tried adjusting the angle also but just wasn't working out for me.

[kujoseto]

Where did you get it tuned?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by jayboots

You can only get your bow "tuned" so many times before your just fed up and need a change. I'm happy to see that the whisker works for guys, it works for my Old man also. I just was stating personally findings in my case. And if you looks else where lots of people have vine issues with ripping, wrinkling, or gouging unless they are using the 2in Blazers vanes as they seem to hold up better.. I still managed to knock one of them off so that is why I was frustrated.

Again, glad to see that it works, if it didn't I'm sure they wouldn't still be for sale. take the chronograph numbers as you see it, that is the results I got, and my WB had more then enough daylight around the arrow so I know it wasn't too small. And I had tried adjusting the angle also but just wasn't working out for me.

Your Right ...the Ugly Cookie isnt for everyone sometimes a perfectly tuned bow will even have less than perfect results if the shooter doesnt have good form...torqueing bow on shot no follow thru...not implicating this is your cause of poor results...

Sucessful shooters of the Ugly Cookie [WB] have to have good form and follow thru...probaly even more than a drop away as the arrow is in contact with the rest longer during the shot...

In a perfect world all shooters have good shooting form for all setups, we focus the shooter on a nice relaxed grip... knuckles at 45 degree to bow and to exagerate follow thru to assure good follow thru practice...

As mentioned stiff vanes such as Blazer or 4" Savage work extreme well with no VANE issues...The WB will show bad fletching, poor glue or soft vanes quickly...however most will show up [other than wrinkling] even on drop aways just from regular shooting!!!

I dont doubt your findings or opinion ... and respect both...simply trying to assist in what may be the cause of some of your issues...

Would be curious to see what three arrows read thru paper at 8 Ft??

Neil

[backyard]

i think he is passed trying to find out what was wrong .... I have used a wb for a few years(8-10) with aluminum arrow that was noisy. then with carbon arrows witch worked fine I just want to try something new and went with a drop away been using them 6-7 years now ...

[kujoseto]

Originally Posted by rpm360

i think he is passed trying to find out what was wrong .... I have used a wb for a few years(8-10) with aluminum arrow that was noisy. then with carbon arrows witch worked fine I just want to try something new and went with a drop away been using them 6-7 years now ...

Agreed, he doesn't sound like he wants to be convinced the wb is a good fit. I'm not trying to do that either. I'm just thinking if the place that tuned the bow with the wb is the same place that tuned the bow with the drop away, he may want to take it to another reputable tech as a second opinion. Still important to have it tuned properly even if some previous issues aren't evident

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by rpm360

i think he is passed trying to find out what was wrong .... I have used a wb for a few years(8-10) with aluminum arrow that was noisy. then with carbon arrows witch worked fine I just want to try something new and went with a drop away been using them 6-7 years now ...

Understood...just trying to help out on the "why" thou...changing from an unsucessful WB to a drop away...may be only masking issues such as Cupped/warped cams, warped limbs... etc or even form ...things that can be missed by even experianced bow tuners....
...which may improve results by moving to a drop away.........but doesnt fix them...!!!

Cofidence is a huge part of a shooters form....If he is happy with present set up...outstanding

Neil

[backyard]

I understand what your trying to do .... and myself I would be looking into it deeper but he might not

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by rpm360

I understand what your trying to do .... and myself I would be looking into it deeper but he might not

True!!! ...Thanks

[jayboots]

sorry, busy at work today,
Took it to Calgary Archery Centre, same place my dad has gone and i have gone in the past and been happy with their results.
I did get my limbdriver from them also and they installed it also.

I keep my left hand relaxed and barely around the handle, my right hand is locked into my jaw when I release. my accuracy did go up right away with moving to the limbdriver over the WB so I Don't think it was my stance, or shooting techniques. Ive been shooting for the past 15 years since I was 8. not that that means Im doing something wrong and cant improve but I have a good grasp on how.
When shooting from 20-30 yard away each shot would be about 5-6inch grouping.. maybe not terrible, but not the best in my eyes.. arrows were also square into the target and cutting through paper square, no one sided tearing more then the other kind of thing.

Now my grouping with the Limbdiver is dialed right in to 2-3inches.

Its not that Ive given up and dont want to try it again, (as I said, going to put it on my younger (8y/o) brother's Diamond Infinity Edge over the hostage rest or whatever its called) its the fact i just spent 140$ on a new rest, its working for me, vines are splitting off, and I'm happy and not frustrated Thanks for your input LOST, ill be looking for you if my brother is having issues with his.

[Chris89lx]

I was at Jimbows this morning.
Had tuning issues and tried everything to get rid of a low paper tear.
Had a little chat and swapped out the bisket on my Carbon Night for a Rip Cord Fall away rest.
Instant bullet holes!!
It was at about 305fps before @ 70lbs and 28.5" draw.
Should be about 249fps now?

[reddeerhunter]

WB are a godsend when stalking animals. If you hunt at the line, then I am in the wrong. But fall aways they do screw up.
My brother had one of those crazy PSE lookin whiskers with the 3 bristle things and got out to hunt one night and one of the bristles was gone. He laughed. I woulda snapped. Then LOST fixed his bow after I exploded his string. Anyway. Off topic.
WB cannot fail. That's why I learned how to use and stick with. No issues here. Not a competition shooter by any means. But animals at 40yds I fair great in % recovered. If you are accurate with a pop can for a rest and don't have issues spot and stalk then good on you. Keep rockin!