Lightning

[Bonescreek]

What's your thoughts about lightning ...

Over the years I've seen lightning strikes leave spiral tracks of torn bark down
tree trunks when they've been stuck.

Why does it travel in a spiral ?

Because the path of least resistance is created by a spiral growth of the grain
of the wood fibers in the tree ?

Or do the electrons of the lightning strike tend to follow an analog path like a
sign wave by nature rather than a square wave as in digitized ?

Food for thought.

Why does the grain in a tree grow up in a spiral and not exactly straight anyway ?



I think the answer to the last question is because a spiraled grain can unwind
like a coil and stretch like a spring. When the wind blows against a tree it can
there fore stretch and give with the wind. Straight grain would fracture.

The rise and fall and arc of the path of the sun would cause a young tree to
twist as it grows each day and create a spiral growth pattern in the grain of
the tree.

The quickest and simplest way to answer the first two questions would be to
cut down a tree struck by lightning (or two or three) and cut a section or
two to find the direction of grain spiral and compare it the direction of the
lightning damage spiral (clockwise and clockwise or other).

[Atex]

I would think it does follow a brachistochrone path and might have something to do the way trees do grow...dunno...

[Bonescreek]

Myself I really don't know, but was bored and thought I'ld run it up the flag pole.

[ghostguy6]

Perhaps it has something to do with the Coriolis effect. Does the spiral go the other way in the southern hemisphere?

Perhaps it has to do with the magnetic forces generated by the electrical current of the lightening bolt interacting with the magnetic forces of the earth?

Im on my 4th whiskey of the evening so dont mind me

[PGH]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning

"Objects struck by lightning experience heat and magnetic forces of great magnitude. The heat created by lightning currents traveling through a tree may vaporize its sap, causing a steam explosion that bursts the trunk. As lightning travels through sandy soil, the soil surrounding the plasma channel may melt, forming tubular structures called fulgurites."

[trophybook]

Lightning is DC , and not all tree hits carve a spiral channel, I've seen black poplars get hit and it was literally a 2x4 with bark. I personally would like to find lightning glass.

[couleefolk]

We've had at least 2 lightning strikes on the yard in my time, both hitting our huge poplars. The first one came about half way down, pretty much straight, before it jumped to the one beside it and finished it's path to the ground. The most recent one also came pretty much straight down, jumped to the next tree, then the next tree. If I remember correctly, it was over 40 paces that we had a 6' piece of wood fly. We also had one large piece blow through the windshield of an old car sitting close by. This strike was about 180 yards from the house, with a bunch of bush between, and I would have sworn it hit right beside the house, because the whole house shook. I haven't really seen any spirals in our trees though. Lots of power in the lightning, and amazing how far it can jump.

[Ken07AOVette]

Lightning is an amazing horrific thing.

My Dad grew up in a family of 13, was born in 1930.
He and his youngest brother were walking home one night, and were hit by lightning. They were launched to opposite sides of the road.
Of the 13, only they got Polio. Dad died in 1994 fighting Chronic Inflammatory Demilinating Polyneurapathy, and his brother had so many heart attacks he was in a respite home for 2 decades before passing.
The rest of them had no serious health problems like the ones they did. Lightning caused them, I have zero doubt.
Lightning destroys the nervous system, and the connection to Polio always puzzled me.

[CNP]

I have experienced ball lightning at one time in an aircraft. I observed a basketball-sized ball of light(ning) come through the forward bulkhead and travel the entire length of the aircraft before exiting out the tail. This was inside of a C-130, cargo compartment was mostly empty, at cruise altitude, the ball seemed to be travelling in slow motion and caused no damage!

[Bonescreek]

Wow some amazing stories and facts yea lightning is without a doublt
powerful and dangerous as well as something to behold.

Another bone to chew on maybe someone here may know the answer..

If a partical of an electron is given off (from the electrons orbit around
the nucleaus of an atom) during the transmission of AC power from a
power plant to a residential home, does that same partical get passed from
molicule to molicule along the copper wire and finally reach the appliance
in the residential home demanding the draw of power ?

Or does that original particle simply get disspursed into the air or center of
the copper wire ?

I'm thinking the loss of a partical occurs when AC changes polarity from
either positive to negative and vice versa.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by CNP

I have experienced ball lightning at one time in an aircraft. I observed a basketball-sized ball of light(ning) come through the forward bulkhead and travel the entire length of the aircraft before exiting out the tail. This was inside of a C-130, cargo compartment was mostly empty, at cruise altitude, the ball seemed to be travelling in slow motion and caused no damage!

Wow !!!

[Bonescreek]

Wow, yup! That's what I was thinking.

I've seen lightning up close and personal, dust devils and water spouts on the river but never a ball of lightning.

[retired2]

Your questions are interesting and there are no such things as stupid or dumb questions. Send your questions to a scientist for scientific explanation (s).

Try U.of C., U.of A. Science Department. The universities have science departments with accredited staff. David Suzuki or Bob McDonald are scientists and very scientifically knowledgeable. If they don't have the answer they will be able to direct your questions to some who can.
You've twigged my interest and I'd also like to know the scientific reasons.

Good Luck with it.

[Bonescreek]

retired2, I'm stepped back by your reply.

If your serious, I have to honestly say the questions I posted are simply
things I have pondered since I was a kid.

I have no idea of what the facts really are about these things.
Just stuff I used to ponder sometimes.

Don't know really what to say, I wasn't expecting a reply like that.

[retired2]

My reply to your note was serious. Regardless of whether or not the 'questions' were issues that you really dwell upon they are questions that may have answers, and there may not answers. For some very interesting view points take a few minutes and do a search (Google search works for me) on the title 'Questions that have no answers'.

Teacher "Johnny, do you spend all day thinking up questions I can't answer".
Johnny " No teacher, I really thought you might know".

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Bonescreek

Or does that original particle simply get disspursed into the air or center of
the copper wire ?

I'm thinking the loss of a partical occurs when AC changes polarity from
either positive to negative and vice versa.

Electricity does not travel through wires, it travels on top. When you are wiring a circuit electricians will say not to nick the wire at all because it hinders travel, believe it or not.

[Bitumen Bullet]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Electricity does not travel through wires, it travels on top. When you are wiring a circuit electricians will say not to nick the wire at all because it hinders travel, believe it or not.

Not quite, but close. 60Hz AC current travels, for the most part, on the outside of the conductor. This is why transmission lines can be built with a steel core (high resistance) supporting aluminum conductors (low resistance).

Nicking the insulation does create a "weak point" that can result in failure in time so always best to avoid doing that. Voltage, Current two different things as is magnetism flux and reluctance. It gets a bit messy for a quick post.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Bitumen Bullet

Not quite, but close. 60Hz AC current travels, for the most part, on the outside of the conductor. This is why transmission lines can be built with a steel core (high resistance) supporting aluminum conductors (low resistance).

Nicking the insulation does create a "weak point" that can result in failure in time so always best to avoid doing that. Voltage, Current two different things as is magnetism flux and reluctance. It gets a bit messy for a quick post.

I didn't mean nicking the insulation, I meant pinching the wire or loosing strands, sorry

[Bitumen Bullet]

Originally Posted by Bonescreek

If a partical of an electron is given off (from the electrons orbit around the nucleaus of an atom) during the transmission of AC power from a power plant to a residential home, does that same partical get passed from molicule to molicule along the copper wire and finally reach the appliance in the residential home demanding the draw of power ?

Or does that original particle simply get disspursed into the air or center of
the copper wire ?

I'm thinking the loss of a partical occurs when AC changes polarity from
either positive to negative and vice versa.

And I'm thinking there are two different effects in the question.

The first is the effect of adding energy to an atom that results in an electron moving to a higher energy orbit. When the electron "falls" to a lower low energy orbit it gives off a photon which are elementary excitations of the quantum electromagnetic field. Photon bosons are force carriers, though some better understand photons as charge carriers. Which works best seems to depend on how completely you need to understand it for what you are doing.

Basically you add energy and it glows. Add energy and photons are released their frequency or colour depends on the atom.

The second effect is the carrying of the electrical charge through the wire to your home. That does not need a particle. Only the force or charge needs to be passed along.

I hope that clears it up but if it does then I assure you there is more to understand but IME we only need to know enough to accomplish the task at hand.

[Norwest Alta]

Seen some thing on the confuser a while back that showed someone puttin electrical current through a chunk of wood. It made a pretty neat design.

[Bitumen Bullet]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I didn't mean nicking the insulation, I meant pinching the wire or loosing strands, sorry

That is also an issue. Pinching the wire (or pinching strands) creates a high resistance point or area (due in part to pinching magnetic fields). The higher the resistance the greater the heat being generated with a given current.

Heat creates higher resistance in the wire.

Higher resistance creates higher heat.

Higher heat creates higher resistance.

Heat can be dissipated put only to a point.

Then the heat builds up quickly, the resistance builds up quickly, and things eventually start to melt, burn and the smoke that electricity really is leaks out.

OK electricity isn't really smoke but smoke is still bad.

[Bonescreek]

I appreciate all the comments and am still digesting what was posted.

I do want to clarify 2 things I said my post original replies were hasty.

If I remember correctly it's not simply a "partical" of an electron that is cast
from a molicule that matters it's a charged "partical" + or - not a nutrule.
And these particles are referred to as "ions" if I remember correctly.
So I should reword my question to replace the word "particals" with "ions".

The other thing I wanted to clarify was that I am aware of what is known
as the "Skin Effect" where it is thought that the ions skim the surface of the
copper wire and don't actually saturate it.

I could be totally wrong on my understandings or memory recall but these
are the things that I posed my questions on.

What to thank you all for the input, I've read some really interesting things
in your replys and it's fun to learn something new. New to me anyway a lot of
it.

I think the tricky part about finding the answer of "Does an + or - charged ion
travel and reach it's demand of draw ?" Lies in the ablility to somehow mark
an ion to prove it.

[rokman]

To the person (user: PGH) above who mentioned fulgurites:

I have a collection of fulgurites which I found in Utah and BC. The next time you're at the beach or in the desert, have a close look at the sand and you may find them. They are neat as heck and make excellent conversation starters. I don't have photos of the ones I found, but for those interested here's what a fulgurite looks like. Refresher: it's what happens when lightning strikes sand. It fuses the sand into glass tubes that resemble sticks.

[Bonescreek]

Wow looks a lot like lightning under ground!

All most ramdom but not unlike the roots of a stump from a tree
following paths of least resistance.

Starting with an initial hit of a sledge hammer and then some.

And it did not shatter into fragments like a blast from a 30-06 into
the sand then strikes a stone.

It's amazing on how much the structure of the second pic resembles
an artery or vein.

Interesting stuff right there.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by rokman

To the person (user: PGH) above who mentioned fulgurites:

I have a collection of fulgurites which I found in Utah and BC. The next time you're at the beach or in the desert, have a close look at the sand and you may find them. They are neat as heck and make excellent conversation starters. I don't have photos of the ones I found, but for those interested here's what a fulgurite looks like. Refresher: it's what happens when lightning strikes sand. It fuses the sand into glass tubes that resemble sticks.

Cool ..... Thank's !!!

[bb356]

Originally Posted by rokman

To the person (user: PGH) above who mentioned fulgurites:

I have a collection of fulgurites which I found in Utah and BC. The next time you're at the beach or in the desert, have a close look at the sand and you may find them. They are neat as heck and make excellent conversation starters. I don't have photos of the ones I found, but for those interested here's what a fulgurite looks like. Refresher: it's what happens when lightning strikes sand. It fuses the sand into glass tubes that resemble sticks.

Cool ..... Thank's !!!

[bb356]

Thank's for the thread Bone's ... got me googling to cool stuff ...Trinitrite