Scope rings and cold weather

Mateo · #1 12-09-2013, 11:24 AM

Hi all,
Brand new to the forum. My question is simple. I've ordered my Vortex 6-24x50 pst scope for my r700 in .270. This is the gun I've shot since I was a youth. It's been an awesome rifle. With the hand loads she'll shoot moa. Maybe just above that. It's not a laserbeam by any means, but I've shot her quite a bit and gotten really comfortable on the bench with her. I had a good ol' M8 6x42 leupold scope on her that I felt the need to upgrade. Feel I've reached my limit with that scope on paper. For deer it's great. Does well in low light. Burin starting to feel the desire to stretch out my distances with this gun. Always been wanting to get into some long range shooting. Out where I hunt , I've never had to shoot past 200 yards at a deer. But I'm thinking of going for Elk next year and shooting past that is a real possibility, I believe. Anyway, the scope is gonna get here end of January, but I still haven't got rings or a base for it. It's a 30mm tube. I'm hoping to keep my costs down a bit on this. Say $150 for rings and base. I have a contact in the US who can bring stuff like this up to me.

so my options and prices are great. I've heard that aluminum rings are less than desired for cold weather hunting. That prairie hunters should stick to steel rings. I've looked and looked for more info on this and I'm sensing this is an old wives tale. With some science behind it, but not enough to shy away from aluminum rings. Apparently the cold effects the aluminum that much more and can really mess with your zero or even lose the effectiveness in holding the scope during recoil. One would think properly torquing the ring screws during cold weather would solve for this 'issue'. I know there's a lot of wisdom on this forum and would like to tap I to it. The rings I'm looking at are the Vortex precision machined rings to go on a picatinny style base.

foothillsman · #2 12-09-2013, 11:42 AM

and if your scope tube is made of aluminum? wouldn't aluminum rings expand at a similar rate as the scope? I've learned that it is best to get the highest quality rings and locktite the scope in. Careful with the locktite you select and how much you use. It may never come apart should you decide to you want a different scope in the future.

bobinthesky · #3 12-09-2013, 11:56 AM

My biggest complaint with aluminium rings is that it's easy to strip the threads if you over tighten the screws. If that happens, you're screwed... so to speak!

Frankly I can't see any good reason to go with aluminum rings other than to save weight but if you were concerned about that, you wouldn't have chosen such a heavy scope.

Albertacoyotecaller · #4 12-09-2013, 12:12 PM

Go with regular steel rings and not aluminum. Also go with stuff in Canada as spending Xmas deal with a legal issue over ITAR sucks.

Mateo · #5 12-09-2013, 12:55 PM

Weights not an issue. I do walk a lot when I hunt, but kind of enjoy carrying a gun that I know will put a bullet where I need it to. Not that lightweight guns don't, I just like carrying 'my gun'. I'm looking for a bit more info/science behind steel vs. aluminum rings. Seems majority are aluminum. 'Buy steel, not aluminum' is commanding me to do something, not informing me. If I'd want that I'd ask for more your opinion. I'm interested in your informed wisdom. And I know there are some brilliant gentlemen on this forum. Also, if I do go steel, can anyone inform me of a brand they've used that has had great success? I do like the suggested idea that since the scope is aluminum the rings being the same would match the effects cold weather would have on it.

wwbirds · #6 12-09-2013, 12:58 PM

.

MagnumMachine · #7 12-09-2013, 01:03 PM

As in all things purchased, there are good 1s and not so good 1s.
The alloy used is the key. Most of the cheaper scope rings and rails are made of 6061 alloy, which frankly makes great beer cans but should not be used on most gun parts, including rings and rails. It is products made with this alloy are are more prone to threads being stripped in.
Rings especially made of 7075 alloy can be made every bit as structural, tough and solid as any of the "mild steel" rings that are on the market. Without naming names these mild steel rings can be found at most big box stores and are made by LARGE companies.
Some manufacturers employ better quality steels including 4140 CM or 416 stainless, typically you will only find these along with the rings made of 7075 alloy in a Picatinny style and normally at the higher end gun shops.

Personally I use 7075 alloy rings on most of my rifles , even up to 50 BMG and have never experienced a problem. YMMV

MagnumMachine · #8 12-09-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

My biggest complaint with aluminium rings is that it's easy to strip the threads if you over tighten the screws. If that happens, you're screwed... so to speak!

Frankly I can't see any good reason to go with aluminum rings other than to save weight but if you were concerned about that, you wouldn't have chosen such a heavy scope.

THIS is where a decent torque wrench helps solve problems like this. That coupled with decent quality rings and you won't have a problem.

Mateo · #9 12-09-2013, 02:02 PM

Thanks! I like this info. Makes perfect sense.

bobinthesky · #10 12-09-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumMachine

THIS is where a decent torque wrench helps solve problems like this. That coupled with decent quality rings and you won't have a problem.

When I first used aluminium rings, no one used torque wrenches on rings.

So I solved the problem by using steel rings... problem solved!
Never had that problem since!

bobinthesky · #11 12-09-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mateo

Weights not an issue. I do walk a lot when I hunt, but kind of enjoy carrying a gun that I know will put a bullet where I need it to. Not that lightweight guns don't, I just like carrying 'my gun'. I'm looking for a bit more info/science behind steel vs. aluminum rings. Seems majority are aluminum. 'Buy steel, not aluminum' is commanding me to do something, not informing me. If I'd want that I'd ask for more your opinion. I'm interested in your informed wisdom. And I know there are some brilliant gentlemen on this forum. Also, if I do go steel, can anyone inform me of a brand they've used that has had great success? I do like the suggested idea that since the scope is aluminum the rings being the same would match the effects cold weather would have on it.

Mateo,

I'm not "commanding" you to do anything and I'm sorry if I didn't answer your question exactly the way you wanted. I may not be one of those "brilliant gentlemen" you refer to but thats because I've only been shooting for about 40 years and sadly, there's not much I can tell a bright lad like you who's looking for science but has yet to learn how to write a coherent sentence.
You did however ask for an opinion and I gave you mine but don't worry, I won't trouble you with more.

Mateo · #12 12-09-2013, 06:23 PM

Bobinthesky,
No need to get offended. Wasn't my purpose. I just wanted to steer the thread responses away from 'only use aluminum' and 'only use steel' without anything to back it up. I'm not after a vote. It is guys like you I'm after for input and pearls of wisdom attached to all your experience. Although you did attack me on my ability to string a sentence together, I would still value your words. If you feel you want to hold back still. That's fine. Having said this,
Does anyone know who makes decent rings that are available in Calgary ? I research mostly from American sites due to the high volume of data available there. But what's available here is usually different than what they use and prefer.

IR_mike · #13 12-09-2013, 07:17 PM

I've never had any issues with leupold or weaver grand slams.

wally338 · #14 12-09-2013, 07:38 PM

If you want the best look at Near Manufactering.

Mateo · #15 12-09-2013, 07:58 PM

Just looked at Near Manufacturing. Amazing stuff. Very expensive for sure. A bit out of my price range

Smokinyotes · #16 12-09-2013, 08:08 PM

I really like the simplicity of the one piece ring/ base from talley.

MagnumMachine · #17 12-10-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally338

If you want the best look at Near Manufactering.

There are others who make amazingly high quality products in this country, 1 only has to look a bit harder. Near makes some nice stuff for sure, but he is NOT alone in this field.
Foreign made goods always seem to be the most promoted or advertized, but that does not always make for the best products.

Mateo · #18 12-10-2013, 01:26 PM

Does anyone know of any other canadian manufacturers of scope rings ?

DaleJ · #19 12-10-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mateo

Bobinthesky,
No need to get offended. Wasn't my purpose. I just wanted to steer the thread responses away from 'only use aluminum' and 'only use steel' without anything to back it up. I'm not after a vote. It is guys like you I'm after for input and pearls of wisdom attached to all your experience. Although you did attack me on my ability to string a sentence together, I would still value your words. If you feel you want to hold back still. That's fine. Having said this,
Does anyone know who makes decent rings that are available in Calgary ? I research mostly from American sites due to the high volume of data available there. But what's available here is usually different than what they use and prefer.

Should stop in at ATRS. He supply's high quality tactical rings and bases.

Dean2 · #20 12-11-2013, 02:49 AM

Realistically, in the price range you are talking about, looking for high end rings isn't going to work. In the price range you are working with even Nighforce and most of the Leupold Tactical stuff are out of the price range.

Cheaper Aluminum rings will stretch, strip and do lots of nasty stuff. The 7075 alloy ones the MagnumMachine is rightly pointing you too will work fine but I doubt you will find any at $150 or less. MM knows his stuff and does good work. In your price range Leupold or Burris steel rings, lapped and fitted, are going to be your most durable choice and are really not much heavier than the aluminum rings.

Rings and bases are not controlled. IRGUNS can bring up anything you want out of the States and you can order direct as you are well under the $500 export limit.

Not much science except for the fact that in rings, you get what you pay for. In the inexpensive band, there is good serviceable stuff that has worked on millions of rifles, and works fine on most of mine. The real expensive stuff I limit to a few specialised, severe duty, must never fail pieces. What you get in the higher end stuff, few can extract the benefit from, either in accuracy or absorbing that much punishment.

Pathfinder76 · #21 12-11-2013, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

Cheaper Aluminum rings will stretch, strip and do lots of nasty stuff. The 7075 alloy ones the MagnumMachine is rightly pointing you too will work fine but I doubt you will find any at $150 or less. MM knows his stuff and does good work. In your price range Leupold or Burris steel rings, lapped and fitted, are going to be your most durable choice and are really not much heavier than the aluminum rings.

Talley LW's are made from 7075 and can be had for $45.

Mateo · #22 12-11-2013, 09:31 AM

I like talley's rings. I'm starting to lean towards Vortex Precision Machined rings. Apparently made by Seekins in their shop. Price is a bit higher that I wanted, but I agree with what's been said, ' you get what you pay for. ' from what I can tell these vortex ones are a good blend of cost and quality. Anyone use them? I think they are fairly new.

gunluvr · #23 12-11-2013, 04:35 PM

Get Leupold's dual dovetail rings and bases. For your long action,( Rem. 700/270 Win?) get the reversible front base. Torque everything to 28 in. lbs. You can use blue Locktite on the base screws if you want, or just a drop of oil. You'll never have to worry about anything ever coming loose. All for about 75 bucks.

Pioneer2 · #24 12-11-2013, 04:46 PM

JMO..............Harold

Pathfinder76 · #25 12-11-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunluvr

Get Leupold's dual dovetail rings and bases. For your long action,( Rem. 700/270 Win?) get the reversible front base. Torque everything to 28 in. lbs. You can use blue Locktite on the base screws if you want, or just a drop of oil. You'll never have to worry about anything ever coming loose. All for about 75 bucks.

Get a good scope and you wont need a reversable front base.

MagnumMachine · #26 12-11-2013, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

Get a good scope and you wont need a reversable front base.

I agree! and add, with buying a good scope why mount it in crap?
The dual dovetail rings have virtually NO structure or holding power. Typically they are the source of not being able to settle the reticle in the mid range of windage.
Again you get what you pay. A polished turd is still just that.

Pathfinder76 · #27 12-11-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumMachine

I agree! and add, with buying a good scope why mount it in crap?
The dual dovetail rings have virtually NO structure or holding power. Typically they are the source of not being able to settle the reticle in the mid range of windage.
Again you get what you pay. A polished turd is still just that.

Laughing. Ive had DD's more miles in packs, scabbbards, tents etc. and they continue to hold scopes and retain zero. If I need scope mounts to play GI Joe maybe I'll try something else.

manitou210 · #28 12-23-2013, 11:19 PM

Badger ordnance scope rings are the best rings I have ever seen, no lapping
I see Wolverine sells them in Manitoba
not cheep

wally338 · #29 12-24-2013, 04:42 AM

Here is a picture of my Badger rings, I was not impressed. I would never mount a scope with them.

Dean2 · #30 12-24-2013, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally338

Here is a picture of my Badger rings, I was not impressed. I would never mount a scope with them.

Man you aren't kidding, those look like they were turned out with a hammer and forge. That is the worst finished rings I have EVER seen. What did they say when you sent them back?