Covid 19: Medical / Technical Thread

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Just trying to understand your thoughts a bit more. I agree with a lot of your statements as people not caring about life. Do you believe in taking medicine or against that too? Without disease controlling the population, we definitely end up with weaker genetics but tough call on where to draw the line.

No, it is more of an observation. Obviously any human being as part of the human experience is going to fight to survive and I am no different. I think we will always fight tooth and nail individually to live as long as possible, but pretending like it is helping us as a species is a fallacy. Your brief comment touched on it and is something I have always said. We are getting good at keeping the weakest of us alive and thriving, but in turn we are creating a genetically weaker species that will eventually not be able to survive on its own without unnatural intervention.

I am not saying the answer is to just let peoples loved ones die because that is obviously something none of us would allow, but I guess I am more saying we are becoming too smart for our own good, and because we live our lives ruled by emotion rather than strictly by logic, we are building the foundation of our own demise since we seem extremely good at panicking, assessing and working on immediate realities with virtually zero ability to do the same for long term reality. I don't think it will ever change either. As a species we are all about the "me", even when we think we are advocating for the "we".

This is a tough conversation to have because there is no real answer that will fix anything soon that isn't horrific and unfathomable except for maybe the remote hope that people will eventually understand that they can't continue to breed like rabbits and curb population growth to sustainable levels, but in our world political, economical and geographical climate, that is a virtual impossibility, at least for now.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by tirebob

No, it is more of an observation. Obviously any human being as part of the human experience is going to fight to survive and I am no different. I think we will always fight tooth and nail individually to live as long as possible, but pretending like it is helping us as a species is a fallacy. Your brief comment touched on it and is something I have always said. We are getting good at keeping the weakest of us alive and thriving, but in turn we are creating a genetically weaker species that will eventually not be able to survive on its own without unnatural intervention.

I am not saying the answer is to just let peoples loved ones die because that is obviously something none of us would allow, but I guess I am more saying we are becoming too smart for our own good, and because we live our lives ruled by emotion rather than strictly by logic, we are building the foundation of our own demise since we seem extremely good at panicking, assessing and working on immediate realities with virtually zero ability to do the same for long term reality. I don't think it will ever change either. As a species we are all about the "me", even when we think we are advocating for the "we".

This is a tough conversation to have because there is no real answer that will fix anything soon that isn't horrific and unfathomable except for maybe the remote hope that people will eventually understand that they can't continue to breed like rabbits and curb population growth to sustainable levels, but in our world political, economical and geographical climate, that is a virtual impossibility, at least for now.

Thanks for clarifying. I figured that was what you were getting at but wanted to make sure. I agree that survival of the fittest doesn't apply to people anymore. May be the beginning of our own demise which in effect will be population control. One day something major will happen. When is the biggest unknown is my opinion. I believe disease is the biggest threat to our existence.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Thanks for clarifying. I figured that was what you were getting at but wanted to make sure. I agree that survival of the fittest doesn't apply to people anymore. May be the beginning of our own demise which in effect will be population control. One day something major will happen. When is the biggest unknown is my opinion. I believe disease is the biggest threat to our existence.

I think it is population that is the biggest threat. Disease is just a symptom and we are good at treating symptoms. We need to start working on the real threat. Maybe not in our generation, but it definitely will be the next generations biggest issue IMO. I just hope they see it.

[JD848]

I just read one article that the store where coronavirus came form traded illegal animals . So there will be no records of transactions on file most likely and how many people did come into contact with animals that very possibly no one knows where they went or where they came from and so on.

I said in my last post that they didn't know what stain which it came from ,but they do,they just never seen this strain of coronavirus.

There has been 6 coronaviruses in the past this is number 7 and even though they know this much about it they really don't know much about number 7 which is totally a different animal.

AS far as trusting china if they could run our country into the ground they would.Our beliefs in a democratic system is something they look at as threat to there security of controlling there own people.

No use anyone getting into other things or arguing over this or that,we all care for each other .Only in very hard times do people put every thing aside like politics and hatred when something like a bad disease or a war or bad accident like on a highway,you don't drive by someone dying in the middle of the road whether he is from Bc .Alberta or Quebec or another country we all have this compassion with in us .

First responders don't assess triage by where you came from,it's the level of threat of dying that they makes there assessment as they are trained to do so. And I don't know of one first responder that doesn't have compassion for mankind .

This coronavirus is going to test world health workers on how well the system is set up to deal with china and how much trust can be depended on what the truth really is in at a time like this.Plus a very hard look into why these stores dealing in illegal animals are not better known to authorities or why there even around.


JD

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by JD848

I just read one article that the store where coronavirus came form traded illegal animals . So there will be no records of transactions on file most likely and how many people did come into contact with animals that very possibly no one knows where they went or where they came from and so on.

I said in my last post that they didn't know what stain which it came from ,but they do,they just never seen this strain of coronavirus.

There has been 6 coronaviruses in the past this is number 7 and even though they know this much about it they really don't know much about number 7 which is totally a different animal.

AS far as trusting china if they could run our country into the ground they would.Our beliefs in a democratic system is something they look at as threat to there security of controlling there own people.

No use anyone getting into other things or arguing over this or that,we all care for each other .Only in very hard times do people put every thing aside like politics and hatred when something like a bad disease or a war or bad accident like on a highway,you don't drive by someone dying in the middle of the road whether he is from Bc .Alberta or Quebec or another country we all have this compassion with in us .

First responders don't assess triage by where you came from,it's the level of threat of dying that they makes there assessment as they are trained to do so. And I don't know of one first responder that doesn't have compassion for mankind .

This coronavirus is going to test world health workers on how well the system is set up to deal with china and how much trust can be depended on what the truth really is in at a time like this.Plus a very hard look into why these stores dealing in illegal animals are not better known to authorities or why there even around.


JD

See the above bolded lines in your post.

Perhaps there is a need for controlling their own people, when they skirt around the rules designed to prevent this type of occurrence or do the exact stupid thing that can threaten peoples lives globally.

[bdub]

A good article from the South China Post on wild animals as the source.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...virus-outbreak

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by tirebob

I think it is population that is the biggest threat. Disease is just a symptom and we are good at treating symptoms. We need to start working on the real threat. Maybe not in our generation, but it definitely will be the next generations biggest issue IMO. I just hope they see it.

Agree 100%. Almost all of todays major problems stem from too many people/consumers. Its nobody's fault and nobody is suggesting mass exterminations but it is what it is and we do ourselves no service by ignoring the obvious. When you have smog so thick you can't see 100 yards, when you have birth control hormones showing up in rivers affecting wildlife, when you have islands of plastic in the sea, when you have bees dying en mass due to rampant pesticide use and ancient aquafers depleted due to (necessary) mass farming, when you have unstainable mining and forestry practices to feed the insatiable demand from 7 billion people...you may have a people problem. Disease is one way mother nature will try to restore balance and in the end I suspect she'll win. Probably not this time around but who knows...

[AndrewM]

Looks like Wuhan is now quarantined. 17 dead and up to 10,000 infected and the virus is mutating.

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Looks like Wuhan is now quarantined. 17 dead and up to 10,000 infected and the virus is mutating.

Where did you see 10k infected? I believe it but haven't read over 500 yet.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

Where did you see 10k infected? I believe it but haven't read over 500 yet.

I think it is just an estimate of those infected. I had read it on google. Few different places reporting it.

"When China said that just 45 people had been infected, academics from Imperial College London suggested the true number of infected people was somewhere around 1,723.

If that ratio were still accurate on January 21, the true number of those infected would be more than 10,000."

[JD848]

No planes in or out past Thursday out of Wuhan a city of 11 million so they must think this is worst then they thought or possibly not taking that risk so the Chinese authorities are shutting down the city.

[raab]

Am I the only one who thinks the Chinese may be testing viruses on their own people? Pretty big coincidence that SARS and this virus both came from the same country.

[AndrewM]

When you congregate billions of people into one area with poor sanitation, statistically one would expect diseases to start there. I would think they would test in Taiwan or Hong Kong if they wanted to test something. Maybe an accidental release but seems odd they would do on purpose but who knows with China.

[raab]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

When you congregate billions of people into one area with poor sanitation, statistically one would expect diseases to start there. I would think they would test in Taiwan or Hong Kong if they wanted to test something. Maybe an accidental release but seems odd they would do on purpose but who knows with China.

That’s the weird part, there’s other dirty and congested areas around the world. And not much has come out of them. The reason why the Chinese would keep it in China. Is they then have control of all the healthcare and quarantining of the people. They could also cover up any involvement in it. Also remarkable timing to have an outbreak with Hong Kong wanting their freedom. I think there’s more to this story then what were being told.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by tirebob

I think it is population that is the biggest threat. Disease is just a symptom and we are good at treating symptoms. We need to start working on the real threat. Maybe not in our generation, but it definitely will be the next generations biggest issue IMO. I just hope they see it.

Overpopulation is going to kill us, long before Climate Change does. Of course, the two go hand in hand, which none of the Climate Change advocates want to discuss, because it is a sensitive issue. Less people, less resources used, less CO2 created. The planet has exceeded it's carrying capacity.

Grizz

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by raab

Am I the only one who thinks the Chinese may be testing viruses on their own people? Pretty big coincidence that SARS and this virus both came from the same country.

Over population combined with close contact with animal vectors ? No, evolution at work. Bird Flu is a good example. One theory claims the religious prohibition on eating pork goes back to an ancient realization that they can convey diseases to humans, we're more alike than we like to admit.

Grizz

[raab]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Over population combined with close contact with animal vectors ? No, evolution at work. Bird Flu is a good example. One theory claims the religious prohibition on eating pork goes back to an ancient realization that they can convey diseases to humans, we're more alike than we like to admit.

Grizz

Yea, but why don’t we see it out of India, Vietnam, Taiwan, the Philippines, South America, or Africa? I guess there’s Ebola, but still pretty alarming to have these viruses coming out of the same country.

[mooseknuckle]

Just discovered "Pandemic" on Netflix. Pretty interesting stuff all related to this topic.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by raab

That’s the weird part, there’s other dirty and congested areas around the world. And not much has come out of them. The reason why the Chinese would keep it in China. Is they then have control of all the healthcare and quarantining of the people. They could also cover up any involvement in it. Also remarkable timing to have an outbreak with Hong Kong wanting their freedom. I think there’s more to this story then what were being told.

I don't buy it. It doesn't make sense. Not to say they aren't playing with bio weapons (as I expect most large countries are) but they could test a virus without releasing it in the general population. Why would they risk an uncontrollable outbreak that might risk their own countries well being including the rich and powerful? They could have easily created a quiet area where they took prisoners and did their tests in a controlled environment. And I'd expect they wouldn't do a release or larger scale test unless they had an antidote at the ready. No country is served by promoting a virus without having a remedy for their own people.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I don't buy it. It doesn't make sense. Not to say they aren't playing with bio weapons (as I expect most large countries are) but they could test a virus without releasing it in the general population. Why would they risk an uncontrollable outbreak that might risk their own countries well being including the rich and powerful? They could have easily created a quiet area where they took prisoners and did their tests in a controlled environment. And I'd expect they wouldn't do a release or larger scale test unless they had an antidote at the ready. No country is served by promoting a virus without having a remedy for their own people.

This all started when Trump impeachment process started. I blame Trump. lol

[Talking moose]

Not to seem crude, but if the world isn’t going to do something about worldwide population growth, then a “cleansing” of 50% of world wide population seems due.
Overall I believe it would benifit mankind immensely.
Hope nobody’s feelers were hurt.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Not to seem crude, but if the world isn’t going to do something about worldwide population growth, then a “cleansing” of 50% of world wide population seems due.
Overall I believe it would benifit mankind immensely.
Hope nobody’s feelers were hurt.

Take it easy Thanos.

Besides, it may be happening.

No travel for us for a while.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Not to seem crude, but if the world isn’t going to do something about worldwide population growth, then a “cleansing” of 50% of world wide population seems due.
Overall I believe it would benifit mankind immensely.
Hope nobody’s feelers were hurt.

You stepping up to the plate first?

[raab]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I don't buy it. It doesn't make sense. Not to say they aren't playing with bio weapons (as I expect most large countries are) but they could test a virus without releasing it in the general population. Why would they risk an uncontrollable outbreak that might risk their own countries well being including the rich and powerful? They could have easily created a quiet area where they took prisoners and did their tests in a controlled environment. And I'd expect they wouldn't do a release or larger scale test unless they had an antidote at the ready. No country is served by promoting a virus without having a remedy for their own people.

What better way to bring in marshal law and by doing so be able to use the military against the protesters in Hong Kong? Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if they have a vaccine for this virus ready to go, but are using the epidemic to their benefit. I don’t trust anything the Chinese say on this issue. Until other organizations are allowed access everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

[glen moa]

I’d like to see it down to a billion with 10 million in Canada

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by KC1

x2
THEBRIDGEHEAD.CA
New study sheds light on the horrible pain babies experience during an abortion

Religious nut cases......

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

You stepping up to the plate first?

If I’m one of the chosen ones. So be it. The way she rolls bud.
Would you care to see the world population double what it is currently?

[bat119]

This is getting serious

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coron...ting-1.5436276

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Agree 100%. Almost all of todays major problems stem from too many people/consumers. Its nobody's fault and nobody is suggesting mass exterminations but it is what it is and we do ourselves no service by ignoring the obvious. When you have smog so thick you can't see 100 yards, when you have birth control hormones showing up in rivers affecting wildlife, when you have islands of plastic in the sea, when you have bees dying en mass due to rampant pesticide use and ancient aquafers depleted due to (necessary) mass farming, when you have unstainable mining and forestry practices to feed the insatiable demand from 7 billion people...you may have a people problem. Disease is one way mother nature will try to restore balance and in the end I suspect she'll win. Probably not this time around but who knows...

You're right. Humans aren't smart enough to control our own population, so nature will have to do it for us. It doesn't take a genius to look at a graph of the worlds population and know we are screwed. Almost certainly in our children's lifetime
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/w...dindata-series

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

If I’m one of the chosen ones. So be it. The way she rolls bud.
Would you care to see the world population double what it is currently?

I Agree. I have some crappy genetics, if they promised a really nice shot of heroin or something along those lines then a simple euthenization.... I've had a good life, and the way things have been going think I would find peace in it.

So yes, I would volunteer.