US vs Canada - Murderous Differences

[260 Rem]

Maybe it is time to look at some differences between our countries in terms of explaining the apparent differences in the frequency of "mass murder" shootings. I see a lot of cultural similarities between us, but none that really explain why the level gun related violence is so much greater in the US. We are culturally similar, we have similar poverty issues, we watch the same violence on screen, we play the same video games, we listen to the same music ... The issue is complicated, so lets share some of our collective wisdom to throw some light on why the US seems so much more prone to gun violence.
To keep the thread on track and not evolving into another anti vs gun pizzing contest, let's leave guns out of the conversation, and accept that they are only tools. I would recommend proposing only one "theory' in each post, which will make it easier for indidvidual points to be argued or supported.

[swforge]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Maybe it is time to look at some differences between our countries in terms of explaining the apparent differences in the frequency of "mass murder" shootings. I see a lot of cultural similarities between us, but none that really explain why the level gun related violence is so much greater in the US. We are culturally similar, we have similar poverty issues, we watch the same violence on screen, we play the same video games, we listen to the same music ... The issue is complicated, so lets share some of our collective wisdom to throw some light on why the US seems so much more prone to gun violence.
To keep the thread on track and not evolving into another anti vs gun pizzing contest, let's leave guns out of the conversation, and accept that they are only tools. I would recommend proposing only one "theory' in each post, which will make it easier for indidvidual points to be argued or supported.

Whoa there... you guys have had your share of mass shootings. Just off the top of my head-
July 2012- Toronto- 2 dead, 23 wounded.
2006- Montreal- 1 dead- 16 wounded.
1989- Montreal- 14 dead- 14 wounded (not counting the shooter)
Im sure there are more but I didnt research. Take in consideration population differences- U.S. - 304,000,000 vs. 32,300,000 in Canada you guys arent too far behind.
Plus nobody goes outside up there where your from... its too cold !!!

[fish gunner]

I'm going to disagree , our histories and culture are totally different. We were never a terrorist state , our past was not glamorized as a rootn tootn shootn gunfight at the ok corral. Canada has always joined the fray at the onset of global hostilities wwl, wwll never the isolation, as to the south. Canadian society has always had a mind for our less fortunate , not an I'm all right jack attitude like our southern neighbors . Firearms in Canada are tools for the pursuit of food, clothing and self dependence , the folks to the south blatantly consider them as protection "god made man , Sam colt made them equal" . Most firearms owner in Canada own guns as a sport , hobby type of thing with the use of as a weapon against another person as a last resort not a first response as is common in the US. We do not tell the world we are the best ,we let our works speak for there self. The worlds militaries welcome working with the salt of the earth Canadians , not a roll your eyes , " those cowboys again" all the differences are in our histories and shout down any pop culture similarities . IMHO for what it's worth.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Maybe it is time to look at some differences between our countries in terms of explaining the apparent differences in the frequency of "mass murder" shootings. I see a lot of cultural similarities between us, but none that really explain why the level gun related violence is so much greater in the US. We are culturally similar, we have similar poverty issues, we watch the same violence on screen, we play the same video games, we listen to the same music ... The issue is complicated, so lets share some of our collective wisdom to throw some light on why the US seems so much more prone to gun violence.

Even in our most populated cities and greater regional districts, we have space,, have you ever become lost in Los Angeles, missed a turnpike? Suddenly you realise that if your life was going nowhere and your immediate neighbours felt the same and you ended up within a project, within a larger project, within a larger failed neighbourhood, you would be very very stuck.

You have to live there and then live here to realise that our two countries are very different. Excluding Alaska, The U.S is not a very big area,, California is thereabouts the population of Canada. Have you spent any time in Brooklyn, wow talk about a desperate spirit or feel to the place -and it aint small-.

We Canucks can aspire and actually pick up a couple of jobs and live well above our means. In the U.S you are competing with ten times more people, you are replaceable and quickly at that,,, such factors can play havoc on ones psyche, add in a dash of constant airplanes overhead (Chicago) or the constant whirr off a distant freeway (communities around Ventura Highway 101 I think), then crappy air quality, cockroaches, more desperate people and one can slowly go bat-5hit. It takes a lot of effort to get away from it all and if you don't have the finances you will go more inward with desperation, to make ends meet and the great outdoors becomes a fantasy.

The U.S is a constant chatter.

Gang bang crimes in Canada are just a crossborder mimic,,, we are so god damned nosey that it would take two plans to plan something,, ever live in a small town and everybody -who you think you don't know- know a lot about you.

As invasive as this is, it's also our safeguard, or one of them. Stateside, there are many who feel completely alienated while living in densely populated areas that the tools for sanity seem as hard to grasp as a living wage.

There is more to add but I have to do some Christmass visiting.

[swforge]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

I'm going to disagree , our histories and culture are totally different. We were never a terrorist state , our past was not glamorized as a rootn tootn shootn gunfight at the ok corral. Canada has always joined the fray at the onset of global hostilities wwl, wwll never the isolation, as to the south. Canadian society has always had a mind for our less fortunate , not an I'm all right jack attitude like our southern neighbors . Firearms in Canada are tools for the pursuit of food, clothing and self dependence , the folks to the south blatantly consider them as protection "god made man , Sam colt made them equal" . Most firearms owner in Canada own guns as a sport , hobby type of thing with the use of as a weapon against another person as a last resort not a first response as is common in the US. We do not tell the world we are the best ,we let our works speak for there self. The worlds militaries welcome working with the salt of the earth Canadians , not a roll your eyes , " those cowboys again" all the differences are in our histories and shout down any pop culture similarities . IMHO for what it's worth.

I'd respond but its obvious that you hate the USA so we will get nowhere.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by swforge

I'd respond but its obvious that you hate the USA so we will get nowhere.

No sir not hate , I have a life time US visa have lived in Idaho , Georgia and lived 15 min from the blue water bridge sarnia for much of my youth, pointing out differences as an opinion is not hate. Just an experienced observation. We are further apart than we are similar . Imho .

[Selkirk]

I'm born and raised in Canada, but I have spent many years in the States, and in several different parts. I've been back here in Canada for quite sometime now, but still have several friends down there.

I would say 'yes' ... on the surface, there are several similarities between our two countries and cultures, BUT all one has to do, is to look seriously under that thin surface, and you'll find a whole myriad of differences. For a hint of some of those many differences, read through Fish Gunner's comments below (post #3).

My life's experience has taught me that Canada is far more 'different', than what many would have us believe.

TF

[doetracks]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

I'm born and raised in Canada, but I have spent many years in the States, and in several different parts. I've been back here in Canada for quite sometime now, but still have several friends down there.

I would say 'yes' ... on the surface, there are several similarities between our two countries and cultures, BUT all one has to do, is to look seriously under that thin surface, and you'll find a whole myriad of differences. For a hint of some of those many differences, read through Fish Gunner's comments below (post #3).

My life's experience has taught me that Canada is far more 'different', than what many would have us believe.

TF

Think I'll agree on that. We may be similar on the surface, but if a person digs a little deeper, there is a boatload of difference.

We can't compare ourselves 100% to our southern neighbors (that's for you, swforge ).

[Matt L.]

I wonder if the massive difference in population might be a factor.

[doetracks]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I wonder if the massive difference in population might be a factor.

Yes, I believe that's part of it.

[thunderheart]

merry christmas and peace to all man .. lets try and be simular that way .. least for today ... just my penny and a half

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I wonder if the massive difference in population might be a factor.

yup , you put 30 people in a room you are going to have some issues, you put 600 people in a room your problems will increase exponentially.

[sakogreywolf]

Simple. Ten times more people in the states.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by doetracks

Think I'll agree on that. We may be similar on the surface, but if a person digs a little deeper, there is a boatload of difference.

We can't compare ourselves 100% to our southern neighbors (that's for you, swforge ).

I'm on board with that as well......much different culture and it's not about hating the US.

I have a lot of facts for the OP, just not today.

Merry Christmas to everyone!

[Matt L.]

I think these cultural differences apply more to the law-abiding rather than the lawbreakers. Murderous intent knows no cultural barriers.

[Evilsports]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I think these cultural differences apply more to the law-abiding rather than the lawbreakers. Murderous intent knows no cultural barriers.

Every person was a law abiding citizen right up until they weren't.

[Matt L.]

Yes, but do you think there's much of a difference between a Canadian murderer and one of any other nationality?

[Evilsports]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

Yes, but do you think there's much of a difference between a Canadian murderer and one of any other nationality?

I think the differences, as they apply to this topic, are prevalent prior to the crimes. Not after.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

yup , you put 30 people in a room you are going to have some issues, you put 600 people in a room your problems will increase exponentially.

Especially if 30 are wealthy, 70 are middle class...and 500 live in ghettos.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Especially if 30 are wealthy, 70 are middle class...and 500 live in ghettos.

I think we have a winner.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I think we have a winner.

Partly, maybe. But how do we assign responsibility for what people do if we make excuses for them?

[doetracks]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Partly, maybe. But how do we assign responsibility for what people do if we make excuses for them?

There is another part of the problem. Accountability, perhaps? Of course, in THAT regard, I don't know if there's difference between countries.

[Gust]

There are many books on the culture of serial killers and despite there being others worldwide, it is considered a phenomena of sorts that the U.S produces so many.

A funny article last year was on crime shows from the U.S and crime shows from the rest of the world or England.

If a crime show shows two murdered people per show and 26 shows per season and the show runs for 10 years, the total body count would be 520,, which is plausible (Chicago marked it's 500th murder for the year two weeks ago).

A crime show from Canada or England and the same numbers would leave one puzzled. Neither here nor there.

I found when I lived stateside that I was bombarded with media/information without room to breathe. And I'm sure there are many on here who experienced the odd awe that some Americans would express when you spoke about Canada,, kinda like us after a long winter and someone is talking about a beach in Hawaii.

Martin Sheen said that, everytime he enters Canada he gets an unexplainable feeling of civility, and he feels like he can exhale and everything is alright.

So what is the it, that thing? It's so hard to put a finger on it,, maybe it's that we don't have Nancy Grace auditioning for the next backwater infantcide story,, maybe we don't play it up so much. Remember life before Cable TV? There was just enough on the box to interest you but not to the point that it was all consuming.

I found it hard to find the people in the big mash up of Los Angeles,, the rat race at all levels never stopped for a breather.

When Ad companies are hired from the U.S to make commercials for Canadian TV, the rule of thumb is a theme of leisure (hockey, fishing, vacationing) and those same successful Canadian commercials have proven to fail stateside.

Ope, the bell just rang on the oven, Turkeys ready.

[mischief]

I agree with fish gunner, similarities are barely skin deep. I was married in Hawaii and walking down the street in a tank top/ wife beater/ muscle shirt (whatever is pc nowadays) and have a Canada Flag tattooed on my shoulder beside the couple of "so I see your Canadian EH!", I also received several insults about my apparently "pathetic" Country. When I was in Great Falls at the tourists information Center last year the old guy behind the counter asked us what part of the States we came from, told him we were Canadians his reply "I am getting sick of the amount of Canadians around here, I wish there were more Americans." I was in the service industry for several years and dealt with a lot of tourists and I never once insulted them, may have started kidding around with a few but never the thinly veiled hostility I received from some of them, not all just some.
Most Canadians do not get the ingrained sense of superiority that most Americans seem to have, our schools do not beat it into our heads that Canada is the centre of the Universe and should revolve around us and our wishes. Just my honest opinion though. Merry Christmas to all and the best of the seasons to you and your families. cheers

[airbornedeerhunter]

Merry Christmas to everyone on both sides of the border! May our two countries continue our long history of partnership and friendship!

[doetracks]

Originally Posted by mischief

....
Most Canadians do not get the ingrained sense of superiority that most Americans seem to have...

Well, here is where I will disagree.

I am born and raised Canadian. I spent a lot of time in the US (lived/worked there for about 8 years) and brought home an American husband.

Since I have returned home, I have seen a LOT of "holier-than-thou" sentiment against Americans. It's almost embarassing, and my hubby has been the brunt of some of that as well. It is so friggin amazing, and utterly ridiculous.

I never got ANY of that in my time in the U.S.

Just MY opinion. We all have them.

[TomCanuck]

Most worthless thread ... EVER!

[pike_king780]

Originally Posted by swforge

Plus nobody goes outside up there where your from... its too cold !!!

Typical American ignorance, sigh .

[fish gunner]

When visiting the Jane st area of Toronto , none of my relatives feel the need to carry a firearm . Even though they are 20 minutes walk from gang central , Canada.
Having been lost in the projects of Atlanta I felt no fear asking for directions. Returning to work in canton GA on the Monday my coworkers explained if I were to continue my explorations I should carry a pistol on my person. Canton is 50 miles out side city limits of the city. The coworker carried a .357 snbnose for his trips to the big city , I inquired if he ever found a use for the pistol . "No ,better to have and not need , than to need and not have".
My cousin in TO asked the same question replied " pulling a gun will just get you shot"

For my part, firearms are part of the culture in the US . Here in the great white north firearms are part of our past times. It's like a man / woman that associates their employment to define who they are. As opposed to what they do to make an income to be who they are.

[Knot Rite]

Mischief, there is prejudiced on each side of the border so don't stereotype one guy in Great Falls as I have received my fair share of remarks from Canadians while I live here. I was born down south and my accent is a dead give away and then comes the jokes and the questions about the government as if obama calls me up and ask me questions. RIGHT!!! I am no more responsible for my government than you are yours. Both governments suck and don't represent the people that they were elected to do.
Having lived in both countries I do see the same similarities in both countries weather you agree or not. I have been a Montana Bow hunter Instructor and belonged to gun clubs in the states as well as here in Alberta and all these type of organizations on both sides of the border are true law abiding citizens with good morals and no one could tell the difference if they sat on one or the other side of the border. Canada is not that far behind the states and if you don't think its happening here already you need to get your head out of the sand. Read the newspaper and tell me different. I do believe it is a population difference between the U.S. and Canada and we are both trying to keep the guns out of these nuts hands without infringing on our rights as a sportsman.
I wish I knew how this could be stopped but we live in a sick society now and if they don't use guns here they'll use there knives and illegal firepower to continue home invasions which seems more common in Canada. I see very little difference in the two countries.
Merry Christmas folks and keep it safe.

Bobby