US vs Canada - Murderous Differences

[Twisted Canuck]

Born and raised in Alberta, got married, lived a year in Mexico, then four years in Missouri not far from Kansas City, lived in Winnipeg after, spent time in Quebec, BC, Sask, Ontario, travelled a fair bit all over the USA (been to thirty nine of the states) all this to say, that I have found people to be people anywhere. Good people, bad people, jerks and saints. Where they are from geographically has less to do with it than how their parents raised them I guess. There are of course cultural differences between the USA and Canada, even more so with Mexico. To try to pin one of these differences down as the reason for mass murder is foolish and impossible IMO. We have our killers and home invaders here too, Mexico has become stupidly dangerous and violent in some places. Speculation and conjecture is fun, but it tends to lead to putdowns and negative comments around here.

[260 Rem]

Granted, US population is 10 times ours, but we have some pretty big cities as well..and our cities are not strangers to poverty, gangs, drugs, high densities.
I haven't really looked at the geography/demographics of the "mass shootings" in the US, but on the surface...there doesn't seem to be a relationship between population density and mass shootings. In fact, it seems like most of them were in medium sized communities of relative affluence?
There was recently an interesting letter to the editor in the Edm Journal penned by an Emergency Room Dr who had practiced both in (I think it was) Edm and Houston, who mentioned the number of gunshot wounds showing up were significantly higher in Houston.
One of the differences I see between our two systems is "heath care". Could part of the issue be more of our "sick minds" access treatment because it is "free".

[Gust]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Granted, US population is 10 times ours, but we have some pretty big cities as well..and our cities are not strangers to poverty, gangs, drugs, high densities.
I haven't really looked at the geography/demographics of the "mass shootings" in the US, but on the surface...there doesn't seem to be a relationship between population density and mass shootings. In fact, it seems like most of them were in medium sized communities of relative affluence?
There was recently an interesting letter to the editor in the Edm Journal penned by an Emergency Room Dr who had practiced both in (I think it was) Edm and Houston, who mentioned the number of gunshot wounds showing up were significantly higher in Houston.

True the one off mass murders/shootings but as noted Chicago hit 500 murders for the year two weeks ago.

And the Houston mention is misleading in that obviously Houstonites are a better shot and the victims would never meet a doctor, only the coroner, who is in the basement of the hospital.

However,,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...XO1s0NJhA&NR=1

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I wonder if the massive difference in population might be a factor.

imo the biggest factor is education.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

imo the biggest factor is education.

Plse explain your reasoning?

[greylynx]

.260

You are asking for answers in a very cross sociological, educational, legal , constistiutional, geographical, geological anthropological,...perspective.

Sorry bud, but geographical models are part of a very large matrix model of society.

And we all know how good models are for a Phd thesis, but try and apply them to the real world.

You say you are a retired school prinicipal. Didn't you take any educational foundations classes? That NDP dude called Raj Pannu taught me this when he was a professor. I never voted for him, but he was a good professor.

[260 Rem]

Grey -- The AO crowd has no trouble weighing in with opinions, as well they should. I just thought it would be good to generate some reasoned, intelligent discussion without bashing guns... why not offer your opinion on the subject rather than suggesting it is too complicated to discuss and therefore should be avoided?

[swforge]

Originally Posted by pike_king780

Typical American ignorance, sigh .

Hey... you spelled " Im an idiot an have no sense of humor" wrong....

[dantonsen]

the USA has something like 11 000 ish murders a year and Canada has about 1000 murders per year......the USA has ten times the population so our murder rates are actually pretty close.

The mass murder thing is a USA phenomenom, something like 35 of the last 39 mass murders in the world were in the USA. Mass murder meaning 4 or more killed in one rampage


I think its a shock factor and noteriety thing, you ll become just as well known as any other celebrity for killing alot of people. The media thrives on this crap... who is the killer and why??

[Steve07]

Originally Posted by dantonsen

something like 35 of the last 39 mass murders in the world were in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by Knot Rite

Mischief, there is prejudiced on each side of the border so don't stereotype one guy in Great Falls as I have received my fair share of remarks from Canadians while I live here. I was born down south and my accent is a dead give away and then comes the jokes and the questions about the government as if obama calls me up and ask me questions. RIGHT!!! I am no more responsible for my government than you are yours. Both governments suck and don't represent the people that they were elected to do.
Having lived in both countries I do see the same similarities in both countries weather you agree or not. I have been a Montana Bow hunter Instructor and belonged to gun clubs in the states as well as here in Alberta and all these type of organizations on both sides of the border are true law abiding citizens with good morals and no one could tell the difference if they sat on one or the other side of the border. Canada is not that far behind the states and if you don't think its happening here already you need to get your head out of the sand. Read the newspaper and tell me different. I do believe it is a population difference between the U.S. and Canada and we are both trying to keep the guns out of these nuts hands without infringing on our rights as a sportsman.
I wish I knew how this could be stopped but we live in a sick society now and if they don't use guns here they'll use there knives and illegal firepower to continue home invasions which seems more common in Canada. I see very little difference in the two countries.
Merry Christmas folks and keep it safe.

Bobby

Do you really not see any cultural differances btwn Canada vs USA that would lead to violence data differances? hmmmmmm

I wonder oh I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the USA promotes war and violence and Canada promotes peace and brotherhood???????

I don't believe population density per area has a lot to do with it.
It's more of...how a population is governed that produces an outcome.

Or maybe it's just something in the food we eat hahaha

[doetracks]

Originally Posted by mtngiant

Do you really not see any cultural differances btwn Canada vs USA that would lead to violence data differances? hmmmmmm

I wonder oh I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the USA promotes war and violence and Canada promotes peace and brotherhood???????

I don't believe population density per area has a lot to do with it.
It's more of...how a population is governed that produces an outcome.

Or maybe it's just something in the food we eat hahaha

Honestly, I think Knot Rite is correct in stating that Canada is not far behind the U.S. at all.

Population density? Don't think it's as much of a factor as differences in population itself. More people, more issues, broadcast to the populus faster with media.

As for the U.S. promoting war and Canada promoting peace and brotherhood, I call hogwash. What I see is a country (the U.S.) that is proud of, and stands behind its military personnel and another country (Canada) whose military, until rather lately, seems to be brushed under the rug and hidden from view.

America honours those that serve, Canada does.... what?

You perhaps may be correct on HOW the population is governed contributing, but it's not due to perceived "war mongering".

[swforge]

Originally Posted by doetracks

Honestly, I think Knot Rite is correct in stating that Canada is not far behind the U.S. at all.

Population density? Don't think it's as much of a factor as differences in population itself. More people, more issues, broadcast to the populus faster with media.

As for the U.S. promoting war and Canada promoting peace and brotherhood, I call hogwash. What I see is a country (the U.S.) that is proud of, and stands behind its military personnel and another country (Canada) whose military, until rather lately, seems to be brushed under the rug and hidden from view.

America honours those that serve, Canada does.... what?

You perhaps may be correct on HOW the population is governed contributing, but it's not due to perceived "war mongering".

I dont call it "war mongering", we've always considered ourselves as the World police. Not by choice mind you but because we know there is evil in the world and who else is gonna do it ? China ? Russia ?
In closing here, I always thought that Americans and Canadians were so close in our beliefs and thoughts we were like brothers. Starting to think otherwise.....

[airbornedeerhunter]

Originally Posted by swforge

I dont call it "war mongering", we've always considered ourselves as the World police. Not by choice mind you but because we know there is evil in the world and who else is gonna do it ? China ? Russia ?
In closing here, I always thought that Americans and Canadians were so close in our beliefs and thoughts we were like brothers. Starting to think otherwise.....

We are, we are like brothers. nevermind some of the stupid comments on this ridiculous thread. It should have been locked from the getgo. Our countries are great partners, don't let the misguided opinions of some change your opinion on that. This is the peace arch between Blaine, Wash. and Surrey BC. Like the writing etched into wall says "May these gates never be closed".

[fishtank]

10x the population 10x the problems.....

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

We are, we are like brothers. nevermind some of the stupid comments on this ridiculous thread. It should have been locked from the getgo. Our countries are great partners, don't let the misguided opinions of some change your opinion on that. This is the peace arch between Blaine, Wash. and Surrey BC. Like the writing etched into wall says "May these gates never be closed".

There is nothing wrong with this thread.
Of course we are like brothers...we get along, we fight, we share,we care for each other, we support each other. It's a family affair.
N America is one of THE BEST places to live on Earth.

But this thread is not about our similarities....it's about our differances. And it's those differances that keeps that border in place. AND it's guarded with firearms on both sides. And BTW...I have seen that border closed several times.

There is nothing wrong with people expressing opinions or facts on here. How else would you ever learn more about your fellow man?

The person who posted this was looking for clarification on Canada vs USA differances in violent crime data and the reasons why.

Give information or don't. You have the Right to do either.

We could just talk about the weather if that more suits you.
And speaking of which....oooooooweeeee it's cold out hahaha

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

We are, we are like brothers. nevermind some of the stupid comments on this ridiculous thread. It should have been locked from the getgo.

Agreed - but not the locked part.

A thread like this does two things - First, it gives the rest of us a chance to put out an point of view that does not get much consideration in the MSM (on either side of the border, for that matter). Second, it attracts bigots and gets them all lined up nice.

[greylynx]

To follow the criteria of the original question, I will propose one difference.

The difference is that the U.S. has a constitution that protects the sheep from the government.

Canada has a constitution that protects the government from the sheep.

[rwm1273]

In my opinion the two countries are similar in many ways, but also just as different.

Where we are similar is how the areas with poor minorities have high levels of crime. Saskatoon, Edmonton, and Winnipeg come to mind. Each city has a problem with crime. Each city has a high rate of violent crime per capita then most other places. Both Saskatoon and Regina consistently have violent crime rates that would place them among the 10 most violent cities in the US, and often individually exceed larger US centres in terms of total numbers for Aggravated Assaults and Robbery. Nunavut and NWT have the highest per capita crime rates. I would like to point out the demographics of those two provinces, but many here will get my point without me having to. Saskatoon and Regina have similar demographics, and therefore similarly higher crime rates.

Canada has a higher percentage of vehicle thefts then the US. I attribute this to the weather. Why walk when it is cold, when you can steal a car and drive. May also have something to do with how spread out our cities are too.

Bottom line for me is the areas with the most poor have the highest rates of crime. The US has a high disparity in income levels in the cities, and therefore has a ripe breeding ground for crime.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Granted, US population is 10 times ours, but we have some pretty big cities as well..and our cities are not strangers to poverty, gangs, drugs, high densities.
I haven't really looked at the geography/demographics of the "mass shootings" in the US, but on the surface...there doesn't seem to be a relationship between population density and mass shootings. In fact, it seems like most of them were in medium sized communities of relative affluence?
There was recently an interesting letter to the editor in the Edm Journal penned by an Emergency Room Dr who had practiced both in (I think it was) Edm and Houston, who mentioned the number of gunshot wounds showing up were significantly higher in Houston.
One of the differences I see between our two systems is "heath care". Could part of the issue be more of our "sick minds" access treatment because it is "free".

U.S. Census Bureau data estimates the Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown area's population at 6.22 million.

When I landed in Houston it was like a sci-fi movie. I had to take a shuttle to get to my connector as it was way too far to hike. Edmonton/Houston comparisons are not fair considering the population differences.

It should be mentioned that warmer climates attract more drifters and homeless in their urban centers.

The pictures of the resent shooter's home that was posted on one of the US channels looked like the perfect place to raise a family. I don't think demographics are a big factor in these incidents either.

[beansgunsghandi]

And could it possibly be that the US has an incredible quantity of handguns, and very little control of them? Nah, it couldn't be so darn simple...

In the US there are 30,000 firearm-related deaths (suicide, murders, etc. etc) a year. That's three times more people dying from gun violence than die from drunk drivers. Our death rate from firearms is way less than half that of the US, even accounting for population.

Societal factors are big (much worse economic inequality in the US than here for sure), but I think a big chunk of it is just due to firearm law and the quantity of "loose" handguns in circulation.

These mass killings are obviously horrible, but they are just a drop in the bucket of gun violence in the USA each year.

I've lived and worked in both countries; I like the US climate better, but we sure are lucky to have OUR country here, with its strong values (and I'm not taking about church but helping strangers get out of a snowbank sorta stuff).

[score]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

We are, we are like brothers. nevermind some of the stupid comments on this ridiculous thread. It should have been locked from the getgo. Our countries are great partners, don't let the misguided opinions of some change your opinion on that. This is the peace arch between Blaine, Wash. and Surrey BC. Like the writing etched into wall says "May these gates never be closed".

x10 and agree with doetracks, well said, and swforge as well, regardless of said topic and other's comments. However, there is and always has been a rather large segment of the Canadian populace that are anti-American, U.S. haters even. If some prefer, "dislike". No matter what you call it, there it is. In terms of crime, we are right up there per capita. The numbers appear skewed due to the vast population difference. It has nothing to do with culture, mindset or perceived mentality. I would venture to say that if Canada had as large a population as the U.S., we may have an even higher rate of crime. This doesn't even begin to touch on many related issues like government policy pertaining to many issues foreign and domestic, and immigration. Big topic indeed. Personally I'm very glad that the U.S. is our neighbour and that they are the 'world police'. Like swforge stated, what's the alternative? Stated countries or the U.N. gangstas. Currently, it is the U.S. leadership that concerns me. It is there that much of the blame for high crime rates resides regardless of population. It also concerns me that the American people seem to be asleep. Complacency has set in again and they refuse to believe that evil DOES exist and is lurking.

[score]

Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi

And could it possibly be that the US has an incredible quantity of handguns, and very little control of them? Nah, it couldn't be so darn simple...

In the US there are 30,000 firearm-related deaths (suicide, murders, etc. etc) a year. That's three times more people dying from gun violence than die from drunk drivers. Our death rate from firearms is way less than half that of the US, even accounting for population.

Societal factors are big (much worse economic inequality in the US than here for sure), but I think a big chunk of it is just due to firearm law and the quantity of "loose" handguns in circulation.

These mass killings are obviously horrible, but they are just a drop in the bucket of gun violence in the USA each year.

I've lived and worked in both countries; I like the US climate better, but we sure are lucky to have OUR country here, with its strong values (and I'm not taking about church but helping strangers get out of a snowbank sorta stuff).

You are correct. It isn't simple AND it has nothing to do with guns. Something is suspect here!

[Olderangler]

If you compare Edmontons murder rate to the USA as a whole it is almost the same. Lets not knock the USA they treat us great when we visit and I feel safe there.

[MtnGiant]

I last heard that Prince George BC has the highest crime rate in Canada.
And that's a pretty small town compared to Vancouver or Montreal or other major cities. So I don't believe it's a matter of pop density. However...I do agree that poverty breeds crime. And it's the governing bodies that can change it.
But the ba-Zillion dollar question is....What breeds psychotics?
This is truly a question that may never be answered.

But as a firearms forum member....and knowing full well that the media,government personel and anti-firearms people are reading and watching this AO forum.......It's MY expressed opinion that firearms has little to do with the psychotic behaviour in our different countries.
Just thought I'd make my stand right here, right now.
Sorry if I got off topic.

[score]

Originally Posted by Olderangler

If you compare Edmontons murder rate to the USA as a whole it is almost the same. Lets not knock the USA they treat us great when we visit and I feel safe there.

Yes, yes and yes.

[slough shark]

IMHO the reason that the USA has more mass murders is the glorification of fame/infamy in their culture, the need to make a name for yourself if you will. The reason they have more overall murders has more to do with demographics and gangs, just my observations anyways.

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by slough shark

IMHO the reason that the USA has more mass murders is the glorification of fame/infamy in their culture, the need to make a name for yourself if you will. The reason they have more overall murders has more to do with demographics and gangs, just my observations anyways.

Well said...I totally agree.

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by score

Yes, yes and yes.

Yes, yes and No.... for me
I have visited (by accidently getting lost) the ghettos in the USA.
I did NOT feel safe in any way.
And was actually escorted at knife point the way out of the neighbourhood.
I'm pretty sure Canada does not have the extreme "ghetto" areas that the USA does and this I believe is reason enough for differing violent crimes data.

[TreeGuy]

Originally Posted by MK2750

It should be mentioned that warmer climates attract more drifters and homeless in their urban centers.

Bingo!

One of the best ways to differentiate ourselves from our American cousins can be summed up in one word.......winter.

There is a far greater 'Darwinistic' element in the success and perseverance of the Canadian populace than the American one.

Acting together and loving thy neighbor aren't just concepts, but essential components to survival in brutally harsh conditions. Thus in Canada we have generations upon generations that are the result of collective effort, rather than the more prevalent concept of 'individual pursuit' we seen in the United States.

With this being said, it also sheds some light on how our two very different societies view firearms. In Canada, they are traditionally considered a tool that is essential to survival by putting food on the table.

In the United States, the history of firearms is intrinsically linked to strife and protection against one's fellow man.

Both cultures have been built being heavily dependent on the tool that is the gun. Just for very different reasons.....