Temperatures and Pine Beetle

[Iron Brew]

OK. Seems to me this fall has been a lot colder than normal (and looking at the normals this seems to hold true). I'm wondering if it was cold enough early enough to hit the beetle?

[mulie4x4]

I think it has to be -40 for 7 days to have any effect in the winter, in the spring or early fall I think it only needs -25.

[FishingMOM]

The facts on mountain pine beetle and cold weather

Forest managers and researchers know that cold winter temperatures can reduce mountain pine beetle populations. But when winter temperatures fall below minus 40 degrees Celsius, many often wonder if the cold temperatures will translate into smaller mountain pine beetle populations in the summer.

The success of mountain pine beetle overwintering survival is a complex function of daily temperature fluctuations, under-bark temperatures and the ‘winter-readiness’ of beetle larvae. When there is a large drop in temperature from an incoming cold air mass, mountain pine beetle larvae die in proportion to the severity of the temperature change. The temperature at which beetles start to die is not fixed, but varies given the larvae’s response to daily temperature fluctuations.

For example, an under-bark temperature of –37°C will kill 50 per cent of a mountain pine beetle population, even in mid-winter; however, a low temperature of –20°C in the fall, before the beetles are prepared for winter, or in the spring, when beetles are starting to become more active, will also kill beetles if it is preceded by temperatures above 0°C. The relatively warmer temperature causes the larvae to start to lose its natural antifreeze.

The problem for forest managers is measuring how cold it is under the bark where the larvae live. Under-bark temperature can be significantly different from ambient air temperature and is controlled by several factors, most notably the insulating effects of snow, bark thickness and the water content of the tree.

Mountain pine beetle over-winter mortality cannot be accurately determined until on the ground surveys completed in spring. Without factual survey information, forest managers are only able to speculate on the effect cold weather may have on Alberta’s beetle populations.

To learn more, download Alberta Sustainable Resource Development's new mountain pine beetle and cold weather fact sheet.

www.srd.gov.ab.ca
Alberta, Sustainable Resource Development
Information Centre
Main Floor, 9920 108 Street
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada T5K 2M4

[Roughneck12]

I was kind of wondering the same thing. Thanks for posting.

[beavertrap]

My father is a RPF, I remember him saying if the cold slowly sneaks up on them the beetles become acclimated to it. But if all the sudden -40 slammed them and stayed for a week or two then it would start having an effect on them.

[sunsetrider2011]

It would need to be - 35 to 40 for over 10 days to start to have an effect on them, if you were to take a infored heat sensor and point it at a heavily invested tree at minus 30 it would throw off a heat signature from the beettles, I spent 8 winters for search and destroy missions for the RMPB infestations. They are really hearty,, and have evolved to Have more flights per year than before,, they use to fly once twice a year now have seen it 2 to 3 times a year. There are spots in tweeds mere park with infestations larger than vancouver island. Minus 40 for 3 weeks is the magic numbers to nere whipe them out in a single area, Not sutre if that would ever happen.

[gpgriz]

and don't forget that only something like 3% of the population needs to survive to maintain populations.

[209x50]

too much snow protecting them around here.

[fishunter327]

Good luck the little bastards are devastating.I hope the alberta govnt reacts faster the the bc one did.First step do some studies then open up the country to log it as fast as you can ,reduce stumpage fees,last step shut down all you mills and move on.

[beavertrap]

Originally Posted by fishunter327

Good luck the little bastards are devastating.I hope the alberta govnt reacts faster the the bc one did.First step do some studies then open up the country to log it as fast as you can ,reduce stumpage fees,last step shut down all you mills and move on.

Problem in BC where Im from was they logged the already dead trees and didn't not attack the surrounding areas like they should have. if the tree is dead the beetles are no longer in it.

[sunsetrider2011]

The beetles are long gone before the trees are dead, the larvae are actually what girdles and kills the tree.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

The beetles are long gone before the trees are dead, the larvae are actually what girdles and kills the tree.

No I think the bettle's bore holes become the vector for the fungus that actually kills the tree.

[fishunter327]

Originally Posted by beavertrap

Problem in BC where Im from was they logged the already dead trees and didn't not attack the surrounding areas like they should have. if the tree is dead the beetles are no longer in it.

Yes True,the problem started when the infestation was discovered in Tweedsmuir park the ndp gov of the time did studies ,did not act could have and should have stopped this catastrophy.Sorry this doesn,t answer this thread but had to vent.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by fishunter327

Yes True,the problem started when the infestation was discovered in Tweedsmuir park the ndp gov of the time did studies ,did not act could have and should have stopped this catastrophy.Sorry this doesn,t answer this thread but had to vent.

I gotta kinda dissagree on the Tweedsmuir Park part ... There was a large infestation west of Quesnel in 1985 and other area's in the province as well ... and naw the NDP screw up .... Never

[fishunter327]

Originally Posted by bb356

I gotta kinda dissagree on the Tweedsmuir Park part ... There was a large infestation west of Quesnel in 1985 and other area's in the province as well ... and naw the NDP screw up .... Never

I seem to recall you working out here about then,alot of squirrels found with duct tape on them too.lol

p.s tweedsmuir park is west of quesnel.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by fishunter327

I seem to recall you working out here about then,alot of squirrels found with duct tape on them too.lol

p.s tweedsmuir park is west of quesnel.

Squirrel's ........... I also ran some sheep on the Rocky Dollar Ranch !!!

[Grizzly Adams]

Seems to be a little optimism here.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/na...service=mobile


Grizz

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by 209x50

No I think the bettle's bore holes become the vector for the fungus that actually kills the tree.

That you would be wrong on,, Its actually the girdling of the tree that kills it,, this was my winters work for 8 seasons from fall and burn to hack and squirt and baiting sites.,, the blue tinge of the wood is left by the larvae

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by fishunter327

I seem to recall you working out here about then,alot of squirrels found with duct tape on them too.lol

p.s tweedsmuir park is west of quesnel.

yup just over the Itchys

[JJ-65]

[QUOTE=sunsetrider2011;1768652]It would need to be - 35 to 40 for over 10 days to start to have an effect on them,

Over 30 days would be a lot better. Pine beetles, Occupiers and other invasive vermine would be heading back to a warmer climate. Here's to a long cold spell. Wish there would have been one on the first Turdo visit.

[BeeGuy]

Just to clear up some mis-written points.

It is the combined action of the larvae feeding on the cambrial tissue AND the impact of the blue stain fungus which kills the tree.

The fungus is carried by the beetle on it's face in what is called an epimangial groove.

The blue stain is caused by the fungus, not by the beetle or it's larvae. The fungus is introduced into the tree by the beetle.

[bessiedog]

Epimangial groove...
Isn't that what some AO members get on the dance floor after several mojitos?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Epimangial groove...
Isn't that what some AO members get on the dance floor after several mojitos?

Definitely

There is a video of the last AO gathering if you follow the link called "Dubstep" in ABB's signature.

You'll probably want to FF>> to 1:20

Truuuuuust me

[TreeGuy]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Just to clear up some mis-written points.

It is the combined action of the larvae feeding on the cambrial tissue AND the impact of the blue stain fungus which kills the tree.

The fungus is carried by the beetle on it's face in what is called an epimangial groove.

The blue stain is caused by the fungus, not by the beetle or it's larvae. The fungus is introduced into the tree by the beetle.

Yes.

Much like Dutch Elm.

[dantonsen]

there is no way humans can stop the pine beetle... there are waaaaay too many of them, every tree you miss has millions of beetles in it.

Logging does nothing to stop them either it helps them spread and breed, all those slash piles and decked wood that doesnt get loaded out right away are havens for breeding beetles.

The warmer winters and breeding seasons have allowed them to flourish, unless it gets really cold which is unlikely Alberta will end up like bc... There is no way around it. There are already tens of millions or even billions of beetles hiding under bark all over the place. Every time you see a red tree another who knows how many are infected elsewhere and the things can fly too so there is no stopping them.

Unless the warming trend goes away the forest is hooped, wait untill the spruce betles work their way Down from the Yukon.

[silver]

Basically, the info here is the way I have understood it, what I want to know is what trees are affected. We hear pine trees but is it all pine or just one or two species. Some where I heard that it is only lodgepole pine. Anybody?

[danger7]

We pretty much missed the boat on this one cause around here the beetles got most of the trees and ones they missed during the first round seem to be getting hit year after year. Little Buggers are relentless

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by silver

Basically, the info here is the way I have understood it, what I want to know is what trees are affected. We hear pine trees but is it all pine or just one or two species. Some where I heard that it is only lodgepole pine. Anybody?

Will affect most species of Pine,,

[Forest Techer]

Originally Posted by dantonsen

there is no way humans can stop the pine beetle... there are waaaaay too many of them, every tree you miss has millions of beetles in it.

Logging does nothing to stop them either it helps them spread and breed, all those slash piles and decked wood that doesnt get loaded out right away are havens for breeding beetles.

These beetles only reproduce in living wood and have reproduced and flown before the tree is red.

Bee guy Im not too sure about your source on the blue fungus. Blue stain exists in tons of living trees that never were affected by pine beetle and don't die from it, unless over a really long time. And I've seen partially attacked trees survive with stain.

Once the tree is girdled the blue stain is moot.

About the temperature and its affect on the beettle, snow has lots to do with it. Even after 5 days below -30 you can do survival tests working down from above the snow. The exposed portions of the tree have dead beetles but further below the snow you can wake those buggers up still. This is why cold snap in fall can have a good impact on them.