Skill of shooting

*BigSexyHunter* · #1 10-12-2014, 02:56 PM

Do you guys think it takes more skill to kill a animal with a full metal jacket rather than with a expanding/ballistic tip?

He thinks to kill an animal humanely with a full metal jacket (The nerve center of the brain) takes more skill than with using a ballistic or expanding bullet.

So do you think it takes more skill to do this?

We have been arguing for the last half hour. We need to clear the air before I shoot him with a FMJ so he dies a slow, painful death.

catnthehat · #2 10-12-2014, 03:08 PM

Nope, accuracy period equates to skill , not what you hit an animal with .
Purposely aiming for a head shot with a FMJ is not legal anyway on big game, so the point is moot, isn't it?
I don't know any World class hunters and World Class competitive shooters who promote head shots- and I have know more than a few in my day.
My advice is to move on, because he obviously thinks he is right, but I'm not sure why he thinks this.
Cat

Gboe8 · #3 10-12-2014, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Nope, accuracy period equates to skill , not what you hit an animal with .
Purposely aiming for a head shot with a FMJ is not legal anyway on big game, so the point is moot, isn't it?
I don't know any World class hunters and World Class competitive shooters who promote head shots- and I have know more than a few in my day.
My advice is to move on, because he obviously thinks he is right, but I'm not sure why he thinks this.
Cat

X2

pseelk · #4 10-12-2014, 03:13 PM

One thing is for sure,shooting an animal with a FMJ is a great way to loose your hunting privileges.

Rpm5 · #5 10-12-2014, 03:17 PM

What a retarded question !! I can't believe I wasted my time reading it and more replying to it.

7mmremmag · #6 10-12-2014, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rpm5

What a retarded question !! I can't believe I wasted my time reading it and more replying to it.

Well that makes two of us LOL

Jadham · #7 10-12-2014, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pseelk

One thing is for sure,shooting an animal with a FMJ is a great way to loose your hunting privileges.

That depends on what you're shooting. Some people use FMJ on varmints/coyotes/fur bearers.

pseelk · #8 10-12-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadham

That depends on what you're shooting. Some people use FMJ on varmints/coyotes/fur bearers.

That is correct,I thought we were talking about big game.My bad.

waterninja · #9 10-12-2014, 04:32 PM

16 posts in, so I hope this is not a derail. I never knew it was illegal to hunt big game with a FMJ (I don't use fmj's anyway), but does that also apply to coyotes? I was thinking of fmj's with my .223 for coyote hunting. Figure there would be less fur damage.

elkhunter11 · #10 10-12-2014, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterninja

16 posts in, so I hope this is not a derail. I never knew it was illegal to hunt big game with a FMJ (I don't use fmj's anyway), but does that also apply to coyotes? I was thinking of fmj's with my .223 for coyote hunting. Figure there would be less fur damage.

Have you ever bothered to read the regulations?
You don't have to read very far to find:

Quote:

It is unlawful to

set out, use or employ any of the following items for the purpose of hunting big game:
ammunition of less than .23 calibre,
ammunition that contains non-expanding bullets,

Wild&Free · #11 10-12-2014, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Have you ever bothered to read the regulations?
You don't have to read very far to find:

Are coyote big game? as waterninja was asking about using fmj's on coyote.

to the OP, simply tell him it requires the same amount of skill to make a headshot regardless of the ammunition used.

waterninja · #12 10-12-2014, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Have you ever bothered to read the regulations?
You don't have to read very far to find:

Yes elk i can read. Since I have never hunted big game with fmj's, reading that reg about non expanding bullets never really clicked. For all I know fmj's may not be the only non expanding bullets on the market.
Also I don't agree with you about coyotes being "big game". I think they are predators or even fur bearers and fall under different regs.
Would still like to know if you can shoot them with either non-expanding bullets or fmj's to prevent fur damage.

coy coyote · #13 10-13-2014, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterninja

16 posts in, so I hope this is not a derail. I never knew it was illegal to hunt big game with a FMJ (I don't use fmj's anyway), but does that also apply to coyotes? I was thinking of fmj's with my .223 for coyote hunting. Figure there would be less fur damage.

Not a good choice on coyotes. Any body shot expect thru the heart is just going to wound the coyote and hes going to run for days. If you hit the front shoulder it's going to cause a lot of hide damage. Head shot might be desirable but they aren't always available. I used a lot in my younger days and I tracked lot of dogs down to finish them. They don't always stay on the property you have permission for. At the price of fur I like to see a dog drop. Even if I have to walk up and get him an execution shot. 13 years ago I seen a yahoo shot a doe in the head and it's a sight I will never forget. The trashing around and sounds coming from that doe were enough to.make a guy puke. I'll drop steers with a head shot but it's 25 yards and I'm dead certain about my shot

Newview01 · #14 10-13-2014, 07:22 AM

I think there are a lot more coyotes shot with fmj then we realize thanks to can of Federal at less than $.50 a round. In my opinion, best bang for the $ is some .223 hollowpoint. Still less than $1 and very effective. Back to the original argument- I don't think any ethical hunter would hunt or has hunted big game with fmj. In fact, I've never seen a box of ammo that is fmj with a type game specified on the box.

alacringa · #15 10-12-2014, 03:14 PM

It might take more skill, but it's a higher-risk shot and, as Cat pointed out, FMJ bullets are illegal for hunting. Expanding bullets create a larger wound tract = more bleeding = faster/more humane death. There's really no argument to be had.

Junglefisher · #16 10-12-2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Nope, accuracy period equates to skill , not what you hit an animal with .
Purposely aiming for a head shot with a FMJ is not legal anyway on big game, so the point is moot, isn't it?
I don't know any World class hunters and World Class competitive shooters who promote head shots- and I have know more than a few in my day.
My advice is to move on, because he obviously thinks he is right, but I'm not sure why he thinks this.
Cat

Hope the OP doesn't mind the derail but why are head shots so frowned upon here?
I know guys back in Australia that shoot 100-300 roos a night and every one has to be a headshot to be allowed in the chiller. A roos head is a lot smaller than a deers head.
I'm not saying I support head shots on deer, I'm just curious as to why.

catnthehat · #17 10-12-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junglefisher

Hope the OP doesn't mind the derail but why are head shots so frowned upon here?
I know guys back in Australia that shoot 100-300 roos a night and every one has to be a headshot to be allowed in the chiller. A roos head is a lot smaller than a deers head.
I'm not saying I support head shots on deer, I'm just curious as to why.

Head shots are frowned upon by many even though they are legal because of the low percentage shot the offer as opposed to a lung shot .
Cat

airbornedeerhunter · #18 10-12-2014, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junglefisher

Hope the OP doesn't mind the derail but why are head shots so frowned upon here?
I know guys back in Australia that shoot 100-300 roos a night and every one has to be a headshot to be allowed in the chiller. A roos head is a lot smaller than a deers head.
I'm not saying I support head shots on deer, I'm just curious as to why.

That's why.

*BigSexyHunter* · #19 10-12-2014, 03:37 PM

I know, I had to post this just to try and get it through his thick skull. He wanted to use them on yodies. I told him that was wrong, and ethically terrible. And it does not take more skill. This is coming from a guy who dry-fired my bow last night... after I told him not too.

This is why I don't even shoot grouse with a .22, in fear of shooting off his beak and him starving to death. and 9/10 of my grouse are BB free. Well #4 free I guess haha.

*BigSexyHunter* · #20 10-12-2014, 03:40 PM

Every moose that I have shot within 100 yards I have shot in the neck. Deer I will shoot in the neck within 50 yards. Never in the head. Never have I missed or made an un-ethical shot doing this.

Any farther and I aim for the boiler room.

Those are my limits for neck shots. I am comfortable with doing this.

catnthehat · #21 10-12-2014, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BigSexyHunter*

I know, I had to post this just to try and get it through his thick skull. He wanted to use them on yodies. I told him that was wrong, and ethically terrible. And it does not take more skill. This is coming from a guy who dry-fired my bow last night... after I told him not too.

This is why I don't even shoot grouse with a .22, in fear of shooting off his beak and him starving to death. and 9/10 of my grouse are BB free. Well #4 free I guess haha.

Another big concern about using FmJ'sfor hunting 'yotes is the ricochet factor!!
Personally I don't know any serious varmint hunters who try for head shots only
I DO know a few who CONSIDER themselves experts however that do both on varmints and deer - I don 't hunt with them however

Cat

GWN · #22 10-12-2014, 04:20 PM

[QUOTE=*BigSexyHunter*;2577442]I know, I had to post this just to try and get it through his thick skull. He wanted to use them on yodies. I told him that was wrong, and ethically terrible. And it does not take more skill. This is coming from a guy who dry-fired my bow last night... after I told him not too.

Please get him to a vet and neutered as quickly as possible

airbornedeerhunter · #23 10-12-2014, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BigSexyHunter*

Do you guys think it takes more skill to kill a animal with a full metal jacket rather than with a expanding/ballistic tip?

He thinks to kill an animal humanely with a full metal jacket (The nerve center of the brain) takes more skill than with using a ballistic or expanding bullet.

So do you think it takes more skill to do this?

We have been arguing for the last half hour. We need to clear the air before I shoot him with a FMJ so he dies a slow, painful death.

Pretty ridiculous argument. FMJ are illegal for hunting and head shots on big game are an incredibly unethical way to hunt. Saw a big doe a couple seasons back with her lower jaw hanging off because some goof tried to shoot her in the head instead of the boiler room.

Ammunition does not equal skill so I'm not sure how that even plays into the discussion.

Save the headshots for a grouse.

last minute · #24 10-12-2014, 06:17 PM

Quote:

He thinks to kill an animal humanely with a full metal jacket

Not sure who he is that part was left out

Quote:

We need to clear the air before I shoot him with a FMJ so he dies a slow, painful death.

trigger7mm · #25 10-12-2014, 07:32 PM

Anybody who hunts big game with FMJ bullets should have his head examined!

KegRiver · #26 10-13-2014, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BigSexyHunter*

Do you guys think it takes more skill to kill a animal with a full metal jacket rather than with a expanding/ballistic tip?

He thinks to kill an animal humanely with a full metal jacket (The nerve center of the brain) takes more skill than with using a ballistic or expanding bullet.

So do you think it takes more skill to do this?

We have been arguing for the last half hour. We need to clear the air before I shoot him with a FMJ so he dies a slow, painful death.

You don't say what animals you are thinking of so I'm gonna guess that you are talking about hide hunting Coyote and such.

The answer to your question isn't simple. I suppose relatively speaking it would take more skill because it would require greater precision.
First because you would have a much smaller target but also because a marginal hit in the body is far more likely to be lethal then a marginal hit to the head.

But then, in my experience, most hide hunting is done at closer ranges which makes hitting a small target easier.

I used to do a lot of hide hunting with FMJ or solids. I'm not the best shot in the area, not even close but at the ranges I was shooting even I could get a high kill to shots fired ratio.

My most common target was Beaver and I had no problem achieving a 90% + kill ratio using a .22. I did so by limiting my range to under thirty yards.