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03-02-2021, 04:09 PM
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Results of SIRT Investigation Nova Scotia Incident
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-02-2021, 04:14 PM
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If I read that correctly they opened fire without being fired upon first, interesting. The rules sure are a lot different for RCMP than regular citizens. Some cops are very eager to go after people for gun charges that are not even remotely as serious as opening fire on the wrong people.
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03-02-2021, 04:16 PM
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Location: Edmonton Alberta
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They would have had to articulate their actions and beliefs extremely well
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When you are born, you get a ticket to the Freak Show.
If you are born in Canada, you get a front row seat.
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03-02-2021, 04:19 PM
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F cowboys
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03-02-2021, 04:27 PM
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I'm trying to figure out how 5 rounds (no matter how inappropriately fired) constitutes a 'hailstorm of semi-automatic gunfire'. Seriously? I can dump and change 5 x 10 round mags in about 15 seconds on a good day, 20 seconds if I'm taking my time...
And that's not a hailstorm either.
Either way, I guess as long as you meant well, and it's an honest mistake, you won't be charged. Right?
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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03-02-2021, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cody j
If I read that correctly they opened fire without being fired upon first, interesting. The rules sure are a lot different for RCMP than regular citizens. Some cops are very eager to go after people for gun charges that are not even remotely as serious as opening fire on the wrong people.
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Exactly, these fools opened fire on other people without knowing who they were shooting at, and the only thing that saved their intended victims, was their total incompetence with their firearms. Perhaps we should take the assault style firearms away from the police, before they kill some innocent victim?
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-02-2021, 04:29 PM
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So this person that was wearing similar clothes and standing next to a similar vehicle as the suspect and gets shot at because the officers had a tough day on the job? On top of that they were close to 100 yards away when they started shooting, would be pretty tough to identify who you're shooting at?
Glad nobody else was hurt but it sure doesn't send a good message to the public with these officers not being reprimanded in some way....
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"Better To Be Judged By 12, Then Buried By Six"
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03-02-2021, 08:36 PM
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If the officers were convinced the perpetrator was inside the building. Why not call for backup or send a smoke bomb inside.
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03-02-2021, 09:11 PM
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Shoot first, ask questions later. Unbelievable.
And why would we keep the RCMP in Alberta as our provincial police force?
They are corrupt and can do no wrong. Botched tactics and no one can hold them accountable. Sickening.
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03-02-2021, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmanbob
If the officers were convinced the perpetrator was inside the building. Why not call for backup or send a smoke bomb inside.
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If they thought the suspect was there deploying a smoke grenade would block their vision of the suspect just as it would block the suspects vision of them. I would also be surprised if regular street cops not associated with SRT/SWAT type tac teams would even have access to those devices.
Wasn’t there and didn’t go through the situation but I learned long ago that people who weren’t there tend to pick apart every decision and action made during high stress situations with the benefit of safety and time, both factors the officers involved did not have. They were forced to make a split second decision based on the information they had at the time.
I don’t care if your cop, boat captain, EMT, contractor, salesman , doctor etc... we are all human and can not be guaranteed to make the correct decision 100% of the time in whatever would be considered a high stress situation at your job. The caveat is 1, admitting mistakes were made and 2, learning from those mistakes. After Action Reviews are very important after critical incidents.
The issue with the public demonizing every mistake law enforcement makes is it creates a hesitation within officers because they are afraid they will get ruined for making a split second decision based on the information they had at the time by some pencil pusher or the media who have time and safety on their side to pick apart what they did. In a high risk use of force situation it doesn’t generally turn out well if one hesitates. But what do I know.... 
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I feel I was denied, critical, need to know Information!
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03-02-2021, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin
If they thought the suspect was there deploying a smoke grenade would block their vision of the suspect just as it would block the suspects vision of them. I would also be surprised if regular street cops not associated with SRT/SWAT type tac teams would even have access to those devices.
Wasn’t there and didn’t go through the situation but I learned long ago that people who weren’t there tend to pick apart every decision and action made during high stress situations with the benefit of safety and time, both factors the officers involved did not have. They were forced to make a split second decision based on the information they had at the time.
I don’t care if your cop, boat captain, EMT, contractor, salesman , doctor etc... we are all human and can not be guaranteed to make the correct decision 100% of the time in whatever would be considered a high stress situation at your job. The caveat is 1, admitting mistakes were made and 2, learning from those mistakes. After Action Reviews are very important after critical incidents.
The issue with the public demonizing every mistake law enforcement makes is it creates a hesitation within officers because they are afraid they will get ruined for making a split second decision based on the information they had at the time by some pencil pusher or the media who have time and safety on their side to pick apart what they did. In a high risk use of force situation it doesn’t generally turn out well if one hesitates. But what do I know.... |
X2
Well said
Get sick and tired of people who pick apart every decision that law enforcement makes.
In my opinion the antis and the left leaning people are the ones who always find something wrong with law enforcement. Not that I know the solution but sometimes it's better to let them do their job and we in our armchairs should shut up!
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Heaven and Hell are real, and we're going to one of them
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03-02-2021, 09:56 PM
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Location: Camrose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin
If they thought the suspect was there deploying a smoke grenade would block their vision of the suspect just as it would block the suspects vision of them. I would also be surprised if regular street cops not associated with SRT/SWAT type tac teams would even have access to those devices.
Wasn’t there and didn’t go through the situation but I learned long ago that people who weren’t there tend to pick apart every decision and action made during high stress situations with the benefit of safety and time, both factors the officers involved did not have. They were forced to make a split second decision based on the information they had at the time.
I don’t care if your cop, boat captain, EMT, contractor, salesman , doctor etc... we are all human and can not be guaranteed to make the correct decision 100% of the time in whatever would be considered a high stress situation at your job. The caveat is 1, admitting mistakes were made and 2, learning from those mistakes. After Action Reviews are very important after critical incidents.
The issue with the public demonizing every mistake law enforcement makes is it creates a hesitation within officers because they are afraid they will get ruined for making a split second decision based on the information they had at the time by some pencil pusher or the media who have time and safety on their side to pick apart what they did. In a high risk use of force situation it doesn’t generally turn out well if one hesitates. But what do I know.... |
Yes anyone can make a mistake , but opening fire on someone with no clue who that someone is, can lead to an innocent person dying. When the potential consequences are so high, you don't open fire with no clue who you are shooting at. And obviously they had no clue who they were shooting at. If they gave a ticket to an innocent person, or arrested the wrong person, no permanent damage is done, but when you kill an innocent person, because you had no clue who you were shooting at, there is no undoing that mistake.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
Last edited by elkhunter11; 03-02-2021 at 10:06 PM.
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03-02-2021, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC1
X2
Well said
Get sick and tired of people who pick apart every decision that law enforcement makes.
In my opinion the antis and the left leaning people are the ones who always find something wrong with law enforcement. Not that I know the solution but sometimes it's better to let them do their job and we in our armchairs should shut up!
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Well, that's a generalization isn't it? What 'antis' are you talking about?
I don't always find fault with law enforcement either, and for the most part I think they tend to be good people doing a tough job. That doesn't mean they all get a pass and every situation deserves a whitewash either.
What I do find fault with is that the RCMP don't answer to anyone as far as I can tell, and there is no accountability when mistakes are made (or very very damn rarely, and then usually somebody is getting thrown under a bus). There was a very strong resistance to a public enquiry to what happened in NS, and there has been as little transparency or accountability as possible. The RCMP sent out a Tweet for God's sake to let people know there was an active shooter situation. People died who might not have if things had been done differently. And cops ended up shooting at cops and bystanders. Never mind that they were warned repeatedly and years before of his illegal firearms and the threats he uttered against police, and was abusive to his common law partner, but nothing was done about that.
Perhaps some of those decisions should be picked apart, and the RCMP could acknowledge that some poor decisions were made? Or else how do they learn from those mistakes, as fordtrucking mentioned? His caveats of admitting mistake and learning from them is the whole issue here. Sweeping it under the carpet repeatedly looks decidedly like our government, from the PMO down.
Accountability. That's all most people want. We all know people make mistakes. When I do it, I own it, and taught my kids to do the same. A badge and a yellow stripe doesn't make one impervious to accountability.
Apparently the only thing that does make you impervious to anything is having Trudeau as a last name.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
Last edited by Twisted Canuck; 03-02-2021 at 10:07 PM.
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03-02-2021, 10:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin
Wasn’t there and didn’t go through the situation but I learned long ago that people who weren’t there tend to pick apart every decision and action made during high stress situations with the benefit of safety and time, both factors the officers involved did not have. They were forced to make a split second decision based on the information they had at the time.
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X3 Armchair quarterbacks. Zero understanding of their SOP’s, ROE’s, suppressing fire, fog of war, etc, etc.
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03-02-2021, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
Well, that's a generalization isn't it? What 'antis' are you talking about?
I don't always find fault with law enforcement either, and for the most part I think they tend to be good people doing a tough job. That doesn't mean they all get a pass and every situation deserves a whitewash either.
What I do find fault with is that the RCMP don't answer to anyone as far as I can tell, and there is no accountability when mistakes are made (or very very damn rarely, and then usually somebody is getting thrown under a bus). There was a very strong resistance to a public enquiry to what happened in NS, and there has been as little transparency or accountability as possible. The RCMP sent out a Tweet for God's sake to let people know there was an active shooter situation. People died who might not have if things had been done differently. And cops ended up shooting at cops and bystanders. Never mind that they were warned repeatedly and years before of his illegal firearms and the threats he uttered against police, and was abusive to his common law partner, but nothing was done about that.
Perhaps some of those decisions should be picked apart, and the RCMP could acknowledge that some poor decisions were made? Or else how do they learn from those mistakes, as fordtrucking mentioned? His caveats of admitting mistake and learning from them is the whole issue here. Sweeping it under the carpet repeatedly looks decidedly like our government, from the PMO down.
Accountability. That's all most people want. We all know people make mistakes. When I do it, I own it, and taught my kids to do the same. A badge and a yellow stripe doesn't make one impervious to accountability.
Apparently the only thing that does make you impervious to anything is having Trudeau as a last name.
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Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with the 2 caveats.
I do agree with an After Action Review.
I do agree with accountability.
But it ****es me off when people on a forum, from the safety of their homes know exactly what law enforcement should have done differently.
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Heaven and Hell are real, and we're going to one of them
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03-02-2021, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC1
Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with the 2 caveats.
I do agree with an After Action Review.
I do agree with accountability.
But it ****es me off when people on a forum, from the safety of their homes know exactly what law enforcement should have done differently.
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The only thing I'm suggesting they do differently is to admit when mistakes are made, and be accountable to the public. If there is no trust, transparency, or acountability in that relationship (and by all the evidence it is a very fragile thing at this point), that's where you get these idiotic movements about defunding the police and so forth.
It's the same reason I don't trust our government. We know they are corrupt as hell, but they have managed to dodge every attempt to pull back the curtain.
This does not benefit society at all, and is part of the degradation that is happening. Just look around.
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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03-02-2021, 10:56 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC1
X2
Well said
Get sick and tired of people who pick apart every decision that law enforcement makes.
In my opinion the antis and the left leaning people are the ones who always find something wrong with law enforcement. Not that I know the solution but sometimes it's better to let them do their job and we in our armchairs should shut up!
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Your argument makes zero sense. Only left leaning people have issues with the po po? Yeah right. Thats why the majority of posters in this thread, including myself, that lean right, think these boobs were and are incompetent. Since when does opening fire on innocents deserves a pass? If I remember the early reports correctly these buffoons unloaded towards the station and then hopped into their car to race off in another direction. Didn't even check to see what their clown act resulted in. Probably heard over the radio that the real perp was 10 miles away. Oops.
And right leaners? We never resent a police presence or their actions right? Noooo. Always supportive of the men in blue. High River gun owners ring a bell? Most of the anti-maskers lean left? Waaa my constitutional rights are being invaded. Who's whining the loudest when law enforcement gets involved then?
These guys don't deserve to wear a badge. Fire them now. Wal-Mart can always use more security, but I doubt they could do that well either.
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You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by the speed of light squared... ...then you energy.
Last edited by 270person; 03-02-2021 at 11:09 PM.
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03-03-2021, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC1
But it ****es me off when people on a forum, from the safety of their homes know exactly what law enforcement should have done different.
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Care to know what pizzes me off?
Four (more) innocent people nearly lost their lives because two dipsharts decided to plow 32 (yes, THIRTY TWO) rounds into a f’n fire station without properly identifying their target and the public gets told ‘nothing to see here, just doing our jobs’! Then they stonewall until a good coat of whitewash can be applied. As usual with this broken and corrupt institution accustomed to facing zero consequences for their misdeeds. Expect a quiet out of court settlement from the impending civil suit much like Norman’s and nothing will change.
Tree
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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03-03-2021, 01:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff
They would have had to articulate their actions and beliefs extremely well
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As would the fellow rcmp office they attempted to kill. Whitewash. As usual.
Tree
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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03-03-2021, 05:33 AM
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Panic pure and simple.
I am sympathetic to the perps, as most law enforcement budgets seem to concentrate on hardware and do not take into account the level of training required to allow LEOs to become competent with the hardware that they are carrying.
The distribution of bullet holes in the firehall and surrounding areas speak volumes. (lucky for the recipient officer involved)
I put several thousand rounds down range in various disciplines every year and only consider myself to be marginally competent.
In my opinion arming LEOs and now recently with scary rifles with enhanced range but not budgeting for a very significant period of range time every year as well as simulator training verges on criminal negligence.
Of course if it was you or me it would "careless use of a firearms" pretty much instantly
As for the SIRC report, as stated elsewhere - whitewash...
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Last edited by Sundog57; 03-03-2021 at 06:01 AM.
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03-03-2021, 06:08 AM
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Location: Sunset House
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC1
Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with the 2 caveats.
I do agree with an After Action Review.
I do agree with accountability.
But it ****es me off when people on a forum, from the safety of their homes know exactly what law enforcement should have done differently.
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One thing I can say for sure from the safety of my home is that the RCMP definitely should not have used Twitter and only Twitter to warn people of a murdering gunman on the loose. This caused the deaths of several innocent people who left their homes unaware of any danger and were killed. RCMP are paid by taxpayer dollars, they most certainly should be held accountable and I don’t think it’s too much to ask to get some explanations for their actions as well.
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03-03-2021, 08:30 AM
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I'm surprised the investigation results came out so quickly. Usually police investigating police drags on ... forever - hoping that the public has lost interest and the media buries it.
The High River gun grab - and its agonizingly slow, blameless aftermath, was a watershed moment for my regard of the RCMP.
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The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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03-03-2021, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cody j
If I read that correctly they opened fire without being fired upon first, interesting. The rules sure are a lot different for RCMP than regular citizens. Some cops are very eager to go after people for gun charges that are not even remotely as serious as opening fire on the wrong people.
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This whole business is just outrageous, luckily no one was killed. But then, there was no end of incompetence that day, that will be whitewashed.
Grizz
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John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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03-03-2021, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeGuy
Four (more) innocent people nearly lost their lives because two decided to plow 32 (yes, THIRTY TWO)
rounds into a station without properly identifying their target and the public
gets told ‘nothing to see here,
just doing our jobs’! Then they stonewall until a good coat of whitewas can be applied. As usual with this
broken and corrupt institution accustomed to facing zero consequences for their misdeeds. Expect a
quiet out of court settlement from the impending civil suit much like Norman’s and nothing will change.
Tree
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This for me ^^
That's 2 fully loaded clips for each officer firing in fear at invisible ghosts. Do not get me wrong,
I will always side with the cop's side of things 99%, this is surely not one of them. Pure dumb. Pure
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03-03-2021, 10:03 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: southern alberta
Posts: 446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin
The issue with the public demonizing every mistake law enforcement makes is it creates a hesitation within officers because they are afraid they will get ruined for making a split second decision based on the information they had at the time by some pencil pusher or the media who have time and safety on their side to pick apart what they did. In a high risk use of force situation it doesn’t generally turn out well if one hesitates. But what do I know.... |
This makes sense
Most of the other posts are from the armchair know -it - alls.
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Heaven and Hell are real, and we're going to one of them
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03-03-2021, 10:11 AM
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Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,237
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We carry firearms and have very little training AND we work for the Government.. TRUST us. 
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Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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03-03-2021, 10:18 AM
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You can’t hit the broad side of a firehouse.
There is no defence of the actions.
I’m disappointed in anyone that tries to defend this.
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03-03-2021, 10:28 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: southern alberta
Posts: 446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter
We carry firearms and have very little training AND we work for the Government.. TRUST us. |
Very little training?
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Heaven and Hell are real, and we're going to one of them
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03-03-2021, 10:36 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC1
Very little training?
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How much training does it take to open fire on unidentified people in an urban environment? No hostile action was being taken against them, they had no idea who they were looking at, yet they chose to open fire. And then Blair and the other idiots tell us that we can't be trusted with the same firearms that they were carrying.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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