257 weatherby

[bigbore375]

Hey guys,
Got the sheep bug after chaseing them this past year but decided after hikeing around with my remington sendero 300 win mag that it was maybe a little heavy for a "sheep" rifle.Not bad when it was on my horse but i bet she won't complain about it being a lighter rifle aswell.So I have been looking at the weatherby vanguard sub-moa in 257 wby what do you guys think? enough caliber for the job and vanguards who has them any good?

Thanks Bigbore375

[Dick284]

After you drop $150.00 on a new trigger they are an ok rifle.

For the weight vs. $$ game, you cant go wrong with either of these:


http://www.berettausa.com/product/ri...rrentseries=26


http://www.savagearms.com/11f.htm


I'd lean towards the 270WSM or a 25'06.

Nothing wrong with a 257 Roy, except the need for long bbls, and the abhorent cost of either loaded ammo, or even the brass is pretty pricey.

[JohninAB]

I have 2 Vanguards, one in 300 Bee and one in 22-250. No complaints with either of them. They are not sub-moa but they shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards. As for the trigger, I have no complaints.

[220]

I had a 257 wby mag sub MOA and was amazed with the accuracy. It was a 7.5 lbs rifle and produced several 3 shot touching groups. Recoil is very tolerable even in unconventional sheep angle type shots. I have used it on moose and caribou as well. I actually found the trigger quite tolerable when adjusted. I liked it in every way except the next one will be stainless as I hunt in some moist climates.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I have 2 Vanguards, one in 300 Bee and one in 22-250. No complaints with either of them. They are not sub-moa but they shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards. As for the trigger, I have no complaints.

that IS sub-moa

[bigbore375]

Hey guys thanks for the replies so far I was just on the weatherby site and see they make a "back country" version of the vanguard with a fluted barell only weighs 6 3/4 pounds what do you think recoil would be like on that as my girl friend my shoot this rifle for deer.
Thanks again

[Dick284]

It's still got the same trigger as all the Vanguard's
Un adjustable and totally hideous for creep and pull weight. (that's from trying some 20 models in our local gun shop)

As for it fitting your little lady, I'd have to see how she matches up to you, but odds are that it will be too long for her., thus making everything from recoil and comfort seem more than it is.

Oh ya the 257 Roy does have a habit of being a tad tough on throats.

[roger]

i feed three 257's in mark 5, brass is $40+for 20, loaded premium wby is 4$ each. reloading is only good for 3-5 rounds then toss'm. powder apetite is horrific. you must run them full power, backing them down is pointless and you might as well have a propped up 25-06.
My wife just rigged hers up here this fall and put a couple of groups at 3/8-1/2" out of the box. it should have a 26" bbl, which makes them quite cumbersome but the recoil is very lite and is quite comfy to shoot at the range,
ive never had a vanguard for no real particluar reason. but Bushrats negative experience concerns me..

[Kelly & Beth]

I own the weatherby backcountry in 257 bee and it is the nicest rifle I have ever packed around, I have taken three deer with it and it is an amazing caliber. I also have a cousin that shoots a 257 and several friends and they all like them just fine.
as for trigger, you can have it stoned and ajusted for less than half the price of a new trigger. I have no complaints with my trigger.

[220]

The trigger on mine was adjustable. The cost of brass is a non issue for a reloader as 7mm rem mag brass run through a 257 wby mag die and voila....a perfect 257 wby mag case...just start your loads a bit lighter as case capacity is a bit less. I will certainly have another very soon.

[Outcast]

I have a Weatherby Sub MOA vanguard in 300 Win. It now wheres a timney trigger. Adjustable???? We tried. Got the weight lower but it was far from "crisp" The rifle is a shooter though. With 150 gr TTSX bullets its actually sub Half inch....

My 2 cents though....get a rifle with a 26" pipe for a 257 Roy

[JohninAB]

There is an interesting article on the 257 Bee and if I can find it I will post it here. What it essentially showed that the velocity difference between the 26 and 24 inch barrels was a non- factor and if I remember right some loads were faster out of the 24 inch tube. Lot depends on the barrel and powder used obviously but it sort of debunked the myth around the need for a 26 inch tube on the 257 Bee.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

There is an interesting article on the 257 Bee and if I can find it I will post it here. What it essentially showed that the velocity difference between the 26 and 24 inch barrels was a non- factor and if I remember right some loads were faster out of the 24 inch tube. Lot depends on the barrel and powder used obviously but it sort of debunked the myth around the need for a 26 inch tube on the 257 Bee.

I know we chrono'd roger's and his lady's 257 Roy's, a while back. He had a 26" pipe while her's sported a 24" pipe, I remember there being a difference in velocity, but perhapd roger remembers how much between the 2.

[JohninAB]

Dick284, here is the article.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunit...706/index.html

He states he would recommend the 26 inch tube but the tables on the last page show the numbers which I found very interesting as I would also say the 26 inch tube should be faster.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Dick284, here is the article.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunit...706/index.html

Can you post the whole article, filters at work wont allow me to open it.

[JohninAB]

Dick,

I will post the last page as it is a 6 page article.

In theory, a 26-inch barrel will produce higher velocities than a 24-inch barrel when both are chambered for the same cartridge. In practice, this is not always true. There are times when actual chamber and bore dimensions of two barrels of the same caliber can vary enough to cause the shorter barrel to deliver velocities just as high and sometimes even higher than the longer barrel. Such was the case with the two Weatherby rifles in .257 Magnum I worked with for this report.



Even though the barrel of the Mark V was two inches longer, it delivered velocities that were higher enough to matter in the field with only one load. Three loads clocked close to the same velocities in the two barrels, and the 87-grain load was actually faster in the 24-inch barrel of the Vanguard.



Given a choice, I would choose a 26-inch barrel for this cartridge, but considering the velocity difference between the two, no hunter should feel handicapped if the barrel of his rifle measures two inches shorter.









Something else I have noticed about rifles chambered in .257 Weatherby Magnum is that they often shoot big-game bullets of various weights to virtually the same point of impact at various ranges. Prior to recent hunts with a couple of rifles of this caliber, I shot both on paper out to 400 yards. Regardless of whether the bullet weighed 100, 115, or 120 grains, both rifles shot them so close together out to 300 yards I could have used them interchangeably during the same hunt.



If I hunted nothing but pronghorn antelope and smallish whitetails and had to do it all with a single rifle chambered for one of the Weatherby cartridges, I might choose the .240 Magnum over the .257 Weatherby Magnum.



The .240 shoots about as flat, is powerful enough to take deer at long range, and it generates even less recoil than the .257 Magnum. But since a good rifleman who is operating under favorable field conditions can stretch the .257's capability beyond that of any 6mm-caliber rifle to include hoofed game as large as elk and moose, I'll have to go with it rather than the .240 Magnum.




SHOOTING THE .257 WEATHERBY MAGNUM
BULLET POWDER MUZZLE VELOCITY (fps) 100 YARD ACCURACY (fps)
(TYPE) (GRS.)
WEATHERBY VANGUARD, 24-INCH BARREL
Hornady 75-gr. V-Max H414 69.5 3852 1.64
Nosler 85-gr. Ballistic Tip IMR-4350 69.5 3653 1.12
Barnes 100-g. XBT Reloader 22 72.0 3539 1.35
Nosler 100-gr. Partition AA 3100 68.0 3433 2.26
Nosler 100-gr. Partition H1000 78.0 3534 1.45
Nosler 100-gr. Partition MRP 73.0 3524 1.17
Nosler 115-gr. Ballistic Tip IMR-7828 69.0 3306 0.86
Nosler 115-gr. Partition MRP 70.0 3357 0.79
Speer 115-gr. Bear Claw AA 8700 86.0 3314 0.92
Hornady 117-gr. SST Reloader 25 71.0 3259 0.79
Sierra 117-gr. SBT H4831 67.0 3206 1.56
Nosler 120-gr. Partition H870 82.0 3326 1.15
Speer 120-gr. Grand Slam IMR-7828 69.0 3253 1.74
Swift 120-gr. A-Frame MRP 70.0 3255 1.82
Hornady 87-gr. SN FACTORY LOAD 3863 1.18
Hornady 100-gr. SN FACTORY LOAD 3549 0.92
Barnes 115-gr. XFB FACTORY LOAD 3341 1.76
Nosler 115-gr. Ballistic Tip FACTORY LOAD 3384 0.87
Hornady 117-gr. RN FACTORY LOAD 3368 0.91
Nosler 120-gr. Partition FACTORY LOAD 3427 1.43

WEATHERBY MARK V, 26-INCH BARREL
Hornady 87-gr. SN FACTORY LOAD 3810 1.41
Hornady 100-gr. SN FACTORY LOAD 3588 1.15
Barnes 115-gr. XFB FACTORY LOAD 3418 1.58
Nosler 115-gr. Ballistic Tip FACTORY LOAD 3379 0.74
Hornady 117-gr. RN FACTORY LOAD 3380 1.22
Nosler 120-gr. Partition FACTORY LOAD 3410 0.87

NOTES: Accuracy is the average of two three-shot groups fired from a sandbag benchrest at 100 yards. Velocity is the average of six rounds measured 12 feet from the muzzle. Weatherby cases and Federal Gold Medal Match 215 primers were used in all loads. All powder charges are maximum and should be reduced by 10 percent for staring loads on other rifles.
NOTE: All load data should be used with caution. Always start with reduced loads first and make sure they are safe in each of your guns before proceeding to the high test loads listed. Since Shooting Times has no control over your choice of components, guns, or actual loadings, neither Shooting Times nor the various firearms and components manufacturers assume any responsibility for the use of this data.




If I hunted nothing but elk, moose, and brown bear, I would choose either the .300 Weatherby Magnum or the .340 Weatherby Magnum over the .257 Magnum. Both are better for larger game. But for the hunter who mostly hunts deer-size game with no more than an occasional hunt for moose or elk, the .257 Magnum is the clear winner. Anyone who has used the .257 Magnum in the field as much as I have can easily see why it was Roy Weatherby's favorite cartridge.

Hope this turns out okay.

[Dick284]

OK I call BS on the method used to develope the data.
Factory ammo only for the 26" bbl.
And reloads for the 24" bbl.
WTH is with that.
Put the reloads through both barrels, and lets see the numbers that come out of it.

Take a step back John and look at the methodology, and purpose of the article.
The manuf. wants to justify the 24" bbl, and drive sales, commision an article through the magazine which you spend a fair chunk of advertising Dollar's. Of course you can come to a very slanted conclusion with the right testing criteria.

Kinda like gun control public opinion surveys, word it so you get the answer your looking for.

[JohninAB]

Dick, the bottom loads on the 24 inch table are factory loads, same as used in the 26 inch tube. That is what perked my interest not the reloads to factory, that is a no brainer.

[Dick284]

I'm not sure if roger will chime in, since he's off to Wainwright tomorrow, but if I'm not mistaken the particular results from our little test showed something like 100fps(perhaps a bit more) difference between the two different lengths of barrel.
50 fps/inch is what I personally would expect in this case.

Afterall the 257Roy is very over bore, and requires fairly slow burning powders. Slow powders will show a prefrence to longer barrels.

In their tests it may have shown very little difference.
A real test would have been more than 2 rifles, like 3 or 4 of each barrel length put head to head.

They talk to aborations such as "fast" and "slow" barrels, and what's to say that is'nt the case here.

I truely wonder what the results would be under a multi rifle test.......
perhaps less indicative of their findings..........

At any rate their test is quite different than what I've found, perhaps my testing criteria was OTL, but if their test seems to defy the perceived logic of convention, perhaps that alone may bring into question their results, and would have pushed them to confirm their results with more than just 2 rifles......... Gotta make ya go hmmmm.

[JohninAB]

Dick I agree with you 100% just thot his results were interesting. I assume my 300 Bee with a 24 inch barrel would be losing 120 FPS total versus a 26 inch tube. i even emailed Weatherby and asked them why they would even put a 24 inch tube on a 300 Bee. Their response was take it to the range and run it thru a chrony and I may be surprised. Eventually I will get a 26 inch tube put on it by a friend in Edmonton.

[roger]

hio John,
when i shot my 257 thru the chrono at dick's' its not in laboratory conditions, but we did have a couple of drinks and steaks after at his house. if that counts...

100g barnes 'x' reload thru 26" on my ultralite mark5 it was 3650fps
The same batch reload 100g barnes 'x' thru 24" on the wifes deluxe mark 5 it was 3550fps.
exactly 50 feet per second per inch.
I was loaded with xx grains of IMR4831..its a bit too fast for the overbores, I read somewhere that it is close to factory fodder. i will be moving to IMR7828ssc and should be able to achieve 3700-3800fps without compressing and hopefully the accuarcy will hold

would it amount to anything? not at my level of shooting ability

my loudmouth ruger frontiers' 16" 300wsm bbl would be another to compare to with a 300wsm in a 26"

were off to camp wainwright!!! booyah!

[JohninAB]

roger, drinks and steaks definitely puts your tests into the scientific realm.

The 100 fps less you got in your 24 inch versus the 26 inch tube is what a lot of the articles claim. I know in my 24 inch tube I am guessing I am losing probably 100 - 120 fps versus a 26 inch tube for my 300 bee.

Just the guys findings in the article got my attention on the "lack" of velocity loss between the 24 versus 26 inch tube for the 257 Bee.

[Leverboy]

Bigbore 375 was asking what the Vanguard sub MOA was like. I cannot attest to the sub moa but my plain Vanguard shoots 120 grain Noslers like a laser beam. While at the range in Edson two years ago a fella had a brand new Mark V that wouldn't shoot anything it was fed with any accuracy. he also tried my loads that were shooting 3/4" groups in my rig and it wouldn't shoot those either. The plain jane Vanguard is an excellent buy.

[bobinthesky]

The only way to eliminate the possibility of haveing fast and slow barrels would be to start out with a long barrel and slowly shorten it as you cronograph the results. I have read about tests where the author started with a 26 inch barrel and cut one inch at a time off untill he was down to 20 inches or so. It's been a long time since I read the article and I can't remember the details, but I believe that the cartridge used was a 308 or 30-06 and it seems to me that there was a fairly consistant loss of about +/-50 fps with each one inch reduction in length. I would expect that the velocity loss would vary from cartridge to cartridge.

And no, I'm not donating my 257 Roy for the experiment!

[roger]

Originally Posted by Leverboy

While at the range in Edson two years ago a fella had a brand new Mark V that wouldn't shoot anything it was fed with any accuracy.

i had the same problem when new it was 4" groups at 200yards, so i bedded the action and floated the barrel it and wow, did it come around.
it is very important with the factory rig to NOT overtiten the two receiver screws, they are (if memory serves me ) only required to be 120inch pounds of torque.
I know i was guilty of overtitening and feel now that it was the source of my original problem.
the wifes new mark5 ultralite is a real impressive shooter and i knowingly dont overtiten it.