Driving on Lakes! Should we pay?

[Levy]

To the best of my knowledge if you put a truck through a lake insurance covers it. Like any recreational activity or daily activity involving driving there are risks involved but it can be done safely.

However when you hear stories and see people driving trucks on 4 to 6 inches of ice or right near creek mouths or springs you can't help but wonder if people just don't know whats safe or just don't care. There is little to no information about driving on ice given when we first learn how to drive even though Ice Fishing is a popular Canadian pass time.

Earlier this winter a group of us stayed at Keeley Lake Lodge and the staff repeatedly told us the ice on Keeley and many of the other lakes was not safe to drive on. We later observed an inebriated bachelor party driving their 1 tons on smaller lakes through narrows and through parts of the lakes with a lot of muskeg which in my experience are the areas you get thin ice or poor quality ice. They didn't break through on that lake but drove out on Keeley shortly after and put their truck through.

Should negligence be paid for? Should there be a compromise? Should there be no coverage? What do you think?

[35 whelen]

From what I have read and called about ,YOU ARE NOT COVERED by most insurance companies,?

[waterninja]

To the best of my knowledge people who drive onto a lake (or anywhere else) are allready required to have ins. I imagine if you are in an accident on the road or if you break through the ice somewhere it would depend on the type of ins. you have as to whether or not you are covered. Depending on the circumstances, your ins. might not cover you due to some kind of negligence or criminal behavior (like impaired driving).
Ins. companies are experts when it comes to denying claims if the person making the claim has done something wrong. Also, no matter how much you try, or how much you pay, you can't fix or prevent stupid.
It allways amasses me how often I hear suggestions to pay more for this or raise the price of that as if thats going to solve a problem. In the end, anytime you make an ins. claim whether you are at fault or not, it almost allways ends up costing you more money anyways.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

From what I have read and called about ,YOU ARE NOT COVERED by most insurance companies,?

Every year this same topic comes up. If your ins. company does not cover you if you go through the ice then you should change your policy or your ins. co.
My ins. agent informed me that ice fishing is a common practise in AB and of course my comprehensive ins. policy covers me if I were to break through the ice.

[JohninAB]

Called my broker last year and with Wawanesa I was covered. Broker switched me over to Intact this past November and I am covered by them as well.

[alacringa]

There are standard values:

4" to walk on
8" with a car
12" with a truck

All depends on ice quality, etc. I won't drive on ice, even if it's 30" thick; but I'm paranoid.

Having seen a vehicle that went through because the dufus drove on where there had been open water only days before without even checking ice thickness, I'd be happy to see it be an a-your-own-risk thing. Ins probably doesn't cover recovery, which is likely very expensive.

[35 whelen]

BEFORE I change insurance companies, is there anyone that has put a truck through the ice on this form and what was covered and what was not ,removal of truck ,gear ,new truck ,most guys say there covered but the places I called said no .

[ragweed]

Auto insurance only covers autos. Not personal belongings inside of it. Read your insurance wordings under the comprehensive coverage section. Most wordings do not make any mention of excluding coverage for breaking through ice or water hazards. If you do not have comprehensive coverage, then you are probably SOL.

[ragweed]

Sorry...forgot to mention...most wordings DO exclude coverage for pollution clean up and possibly recovery.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Every year this same topic comes up. If your ins. company does not cover you if you go through the ice then you should change your policy or your ins. co.
My ins. agent informed me that ice fishing is a common practise in AB and of course my comprehensive ins. policy covers me if I were to break through the ice.

100% agree.

My insurance company made it very simple - you are covered for 100% of the value of the vehicle, 100% recovery, 100% of the contents period.

There is only 1 stipulation.

You must access the lake at a "common" point - described as a commonly used range road, boat launch etc... and there must be no posted warning sign. If there is a thin ice warning sign - I am on my own. If not and I access the ice - I am covered 100%.

There is no "off highway use" or "don't cover you for recovery or environmental" or any other conspiracy theory issues with my insurance - it's that simple.

This is a reasonable stipulation. They feel at a common point and regional or county authority would use this access point to warn anglers not to go on the ice due to unsafe conditions.

Access the ice for a common point and ensure it's not posted as dangerous or unsafe and I am covered 100%.

[LCCFisherman]

I don't think you should be insured and I also think if your truck falls through you should be charged $5 grand for pollution in the lake. Enough with the idiocy....

[EZM]

There are certain lakes that are perfectly safe to navigate on the ice with a vehicle. There are other lakes that are really sketchy like Battle or Devils that have many springs, currents or gas pockets.

The biggest issue (danger), right after the ice thickness/condition itself is speed. If you are travelling over 20km/hr (and too many people do that) the wave you cause may cause the ice to crack as it cannot flex fast enough.

On our way off Gull yesterday afternoon, a few minutes before that, a 1 ton went bombing down the well travelled access road and caused many new wet cracks. The guys driving had no clue what they had just done - made the ice sketchy for anyone else who passess behind them.

If you decide to go out on a sketchy lake, or too early in the season ...... well then .... the risk is yours.

[lromanchuk]

Originally Posted by EZM

100% agree.

My insurance company made it very simple - you are covered for 100% of the value of the vehicle, 100% recovery, 100% of the contents period.

There is only 1 stipulation.

You must access the lake at a "common" point - described as a commonly used range road, boat launch etc... and there must be no posted warning sign. If there is a thin ice warning sign - I am on my own. If not and I access the ice - I am covered 100%.

There is no "off highway use" or "don't cover you for recovery or environmental" or any other conspiracy theory issues with my insurance - it's that simple.

This is a reasonable stipulation. They feel at a common point and regional or county authority would use this access point to warn anglers not to go on the ice due to unsafe conditions.

Access the ice for a common point and ensure it's not posted as dangerous or unsafe and I am covered 100%.

I know you like to fish Wabamun, and Wabamun has thin ice warning signs at many lake entrances. Just FYI if you didn't already know about the signs.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by lromanchuk

I know you like to fish Wabamun, and Wabamun has thin ice warning signs at many lake entrances. Just FYI if you didn't already know about the signs.

You are correct .... Wabamun is a lake I won't drive on until the ice gets about 16"-18" - and I stay only in areas that I know. But I'm out there a few times every winter. Usually after there has been some steady traffic to where I'm going.

Sundance is sketchy - a trucks goes through on that end it seems every few years. Not sure what's going on down there but ice can be 18" in one spot and 5" only 10 yards away ...... yikes. I went down there once ..... never again. We walked on but some guys had trucks on the ice. That was the year the Toyota went through (posted here on forum).

And ..... under the railway bridge ....... a breakthrough every second year it seems. There is current flowing there and the ice is only 5"-6" under there even when the rest of the lake is around 20".

[DiabeticKripple]

I emailed my insurance company (aviva brokered through sharp) and I am covered under the comprehensive part of I go through.

[Brandonkop]

I can't believe 52 % say not at all... those guys must not have truck and must not drive on the ice.

[35 whelen]

Just called AMA insurance about trucks through the ice ,told me that it might be covered through you comp but removal and insurance was a case by case deal ,so more or less could not tell me if I was insured said it was a grey area ,think I will stay with my insurance for now ,IS THERE ANYONE THAT HAS HAD A TRUCK THROUGH THE ICE ON THIS FORM THANKS.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Levy

Should negligence be paid for? Should there be a compromise? Should there be no coverage? What do you think?

What do you mean when you say "should negligence be paid for?" I assume it is paid for, either by the driver through his insurance premiums, or by the driver directly when his insurance won't pay.

As for "should there be no coverage", why would you want to get in between a private individual and a private insurer??? let them agree to cover anything they want. Your question would only be relevant if we had public insurance where you and I would have to foot the bill through mandatory premiums.

[deerguy]

Who pays if insurance won't? What if I am an 18 year old mail boy. I take my $900 beater on to cVR and SPLOOSH, through I go. New baby at home so no thousands laying around at home. Who pays the recovery?

[happyfisher]

u do and they will collect it.....

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Just called AMA insurance about trucks through the ice ,told me that it might be covered through you comp but removal and insurance was a case by case deal ,so more or less could not tell me if I was insured said it was a grey area ,think I will stay with my insurance for now ,IS THERE ANYONE THAT HAS HAD A TRUCK THROUGH THE ICE ON THIS FORM THANKS.

I did many years ago at Crawling Valley, vehicle and recovery (~5K) were all fully covered. Contents were covered under home owner policy. RBC was provider.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by deerguy

Who pays if insurance won't? What if I am an 18 year old mail boy. I take my $900 beater on to cVR and SPLOOSH, through I go. New baby at home so no thousands laying around at home. Who pays the recovery?

You would, environmental legislation kicks in if efforts are not being made to recover and fines would begin to accumulate.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

What do you mean when you say "should negligence be paid for?" I assume it is paid for, either by the driver through his insurance premiums, or by the driver directly when his insurance won't pay.

As for "should there be no coverage", why would you want to get in between a private individual and a private insurer??? let them agree to cover anything they want. Your question would only be relevant if we had public insurance where you and I would have to foot the bill through mandatory premiums.

X2

[RavYak]

I think there should be an investigation done as part of the insurance procedure. Part of the investigation should be checking the ice thickness at drive on location and going by the standard values it should be determined if the driver was being a knob based on what he was driving and whether he was parked beside other vehicles etc.

Last week out in SK the ice was 13-14 inches of good ice but there were idiots parking 4 full size trucks right close to each other along with a couple campers/shacks... Guys living that dangerously should have to pay their way if they go through the ice, it is not fair everyone else's insurance premiums go up because of idiots like that.

A good reminder is that 4 inches for a person with fishing gear etc, 5 inches for quad/snowmobile, 8 inches for car and 12 inches for a truck. Those values are talking good ice thickness(not flood ice, rotten ice, snow etc) and are for a single vehicle/person... You don't setup 6 people in a 6 man tent on 4 inches of ice. You don't park multiple quads and ice fishing gear etc beside each other on 5 inches of ice. You don't park 4 trucks beside each other on 12 inches of ice... Ice safety is simple but there are too many idiots out and about that don't think or follow the recommendations in order to stay safe. Don't be that idiot...

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by RavYak

I think there should be an investigation done as part of the insurance procedure. Part of the investigation should be checking the ice thickness at drive on location and going by the standard values it should be determined if the driver was being a knob based on what he was driving and whether he was parked beside other vehicles etc.

Last week out in SK the ice was 13-14 inches of good ice but there were idiots parking 4 full size trucks right close to each other along with a couple campers/shacks... Guys living that dangerously should have to pay their way if they go through the ice, it is not fair everyone else's insurance premiums go up because of idiots like that.

A good reminder is that 4 inches for a person with fishing gear etc, 5 inches for quad/snowmobile, 8 inches for car and 12 inches for a truck. Those values are talking good ice thickness(not flood ice, rotten ice, snow etc) and are for a single vehicle/person... You don't setup 6 people in a 6 man tent on 4 inches of ice. You don't park multiple quads and ice fishing gear etc beside each other on 5 inches of ice. You don't park 4 trucks beside each other on 12 inches of ice... Ice safety is simple but there are too many idiots out and about that don't think or follow the recommendations in order to stay safe. Don't be that idiot...

Rav, you say that it's not fair that everyone should pay for the idiot that goes through the ice. I agree, but vehicles going through the ice are pretty rare. How about the hundreds, or even thousands of "idiots" that have accidents every year on the road? we pay for them also, so vehicles going through the ice are just a drop in the bucket.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Rav, you say that it's not fair that everyone should pay for the idiot that goes through the ice. I agree, but vehicles going through the ice are pretty rare. How about the hundreds, or even thousands of "idiots" that have accidents every year on the road? we pay for them also, so vehicles going through the ice are just a drop in the bucket.

Agreed, trucks through the ice probably raise our insurance rate 30 cents a year.....adding an investigation could almost double that number!!!!

[top_angler]

Why would anyone be such a moron to drive avehicle on a body of water and bitch when they fall through?

[AppleJax]

Originally Posted by EZM

100% agree.

My insurance company made it very simple - you are covered for 100% of the value of the vehicle, 100% recovery, 100% of the contents period.

There is only 1 stipulation.

You must access the lake at a "common" point - described as a commonly used range road, boat launch etc... and there must be no posted warning sign. If there is a thin ice warning sign - I am on my own. If not and I access the ice - I am covered 100%.

There is no "off highway use" or "don't cover you for recovery or environmental" or any other conspiracy theory issues with my insurance - it's that simple.

This is a reasonable stipulation. They feel at a common point and regional or county authority would use this access point to warn anglers not to go on the ice due to unsafe conditions.

Access the ice for a common point and ensure it's not posted as dangerous or unsafe and I am covered 100%.

EZM has used me as his insurance coverage a few times during the ice season. I think if you had to haul all that gear I've seen you bring by foot you might want to take extra medical coverage!

AJ

[EZM]

Originally Posted by AppleJax

EZM has used me as his insurance coverage a few times during the ice season. I think if you had to haul all that gear I've seen you bring by foot you might want to take extra medical coverage!

AJ

As long as I have some as brave as you along to blaze the trail with your truck making the first tracks of the season - I feel safe enough to follow you with my truck ..... lol.

There are a few lakes that we both fish that have springs/flows that always make me nervous .......

That's why I invite you ......

[70chevy]

I would rather walk 200 feet than swim 20