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Old 05-24-2018, 01:42 PM
MunroeM MunroeM is offline
 
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Default Deck build questions

Hello all,

I am looking to build a deck in my backyard in Edmonton. It is going to be just under 24" in height and 14 feet wide and 16 feet in length and attached to the house. The house already has a 2x10 ledger board attached to the house but one of the questions I have is about how its attached. The ledger board is only nailed to the house. I have attached some images of the ledger board and the main floor house joists it attaches to. Is it ok that it is only nailed in place?







I have attached a very basic framing plan for the deck I plan on building with some basic measurements and also the Edmonton decks under 6' guide the city has online. I would prefer to only have one beam to save on building costs for the foundation piles but it looks like to meet the joist span requirements I would have to use 2x12 joists. Can I use 2x12 joists with a 2x10 ledger board?

Since the height of the deck is just under 24" I would like to use 2x10's for the beam as that would mean only requiring 2 foundations per beam. Can I use a 3ply 2x10 beam under 2x12 joists?




Any help provided is greatly appreciated,

Munroe

Last edited by MunroeM; 05-24-2018 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:58 PM
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Attilathecanuk Attilathecanuk is offline
 
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First get some ACQ treated 3” screws and secure th ledger to the house with same pattern as those nails (PWF lumber will corrode those nails). A 3-ply 2x10 beam will support your joists and I would use 2x10 for joists as well with one row of mid- length bridging or blocking. I would do 3 posts (screwpiles) under that beam 2 feet back from the edge of deck (or 10 feet from the bump out of the house).
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:50 PM
JWCalgary JWCalgary is offline
 
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I wouldn't span 16 ft with 2x12. 2x10 joists attached to the ledger board with joist hangars. 2x12 joists are also expensive.

Support the deck in the middle and end with 3 ply beams (2 ft cantilever on the end) on post saddles into concrete "piles"

We dug our piles with one of those augers and it made a large hole. I would suggest a small auger to save on concrete costs.

You'll be able to park a tank on it.

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Old 05-24-2018, 06:32 PM
MunroeM MunroeM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attilathecanuk View Post
First get some ACQ treated 3” screws and secure th ledger to the house with same pattern as those nails (PWF lumber will corrode those nails). A 3-ply 2x10 beam will support your joists and I would use 2x10 for joists as well with one row of mid- length bridging or blocking. I would do 3 posts (screwpiles) under that beam 2 feet back from the edge of deck (or 10 feet from the bump out of the house).
Thanks for the tip on the ACQ treated screws. I knew I needed those for the decking but never would have thought about adding them into the ledger that was already installed.

According to the Edmonton uncovered deck guide I posted I can only span a 2x10 13'8" at max. With a 24" joist cantilever the left most joist and the 2 right most joists will be 14' all the rest will be under 13'8".


Quote:
I wouldn't span 16 ft with 2x12. 2x10 joists attached to the ledger board with joist hangars. 2x12 joists are also expensive.

Support the deck in the middle and end with 3 ply beams (2 ft cantilever on the end) on post saddles into concrete "piles"

We dug our piles with one of those augers and it made a large hole. I would suggest a small auger to save on concrete costs.

You'll be able to park a tank on it.
How deep did you dig for your piles? Was this in Edmonton?
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Old 05-24-2018, 06:37 PM
JWCalgary JWCalgary is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MunroeM View Post
Thanks for the tip on the ACQ treated screws. I knew I needed those for the decking but never would have thought about adding them into the ledger that was already installed.

According to the Edmonton uncovered deck guide I posted I can only span a 2x10 13'8" at max. With a 24" joist cantilever the left most joist and the 2 right most joists will be 14' all the rest will be under 13'8".




How deep did you dig for your piles? Was this in Edmonton?
3-ish feet. Calgary.

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Old 05-24-2018, 08:03 PM
bucksnbears bucksnbears is offline
 
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Alot of contactors will naill a ledger board in place tout the siding around.
But it still needs to be fastened securely when building a deck.

And post's should either be down 6 feet or on a pad on top.
No compromise!
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:41 PM
ghfalls ghfalls is offline
 
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If you put your beam at 14' to the far edge from the house you'll be less than 13'8" from the house to use 2x10 instead of 2x12. FYI the rim board on your house is emercore which is 2 layers of 7/16 osb sandwiching 1 1/2" of foam. Good stuff but bad for decks. Who was your builder? Some builders get us framers to put a beam on the outside of the emercore, where decks are, while some don't. Avi does beam, pacesetter doesn't for example. Emercore is rated to hold deck nailers, but the nail pattern should be 3 nails every 6". Ember core is 2 1/2" thick. I'd use 4 1/2" screws. 3 every 6" or so and you'll be good.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:58 PM
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EZM EZM is offline
 
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I also wouldn't use 2x12 onto a 2x10 ledger already attached to the house - your joist hangers will not be properly secured and you risk a failed inspection.

I also agree you must attach your ledger with heavy coated screws or lags. Just mark your joist position first and attach the lags or heavy screws between those in a V pattern. I'd also add some flashing to the top of the ledger.

With 2x10 joists @ 16 OC you are going to require a set of piles as you can't span the full 16ft.

Now if you went 15' out on the longest joists - minus a ~20" cantilever you could get away with a span under 13'8".

I'd suggest, nevertheless, a second set of piles anyways. You span at or near the max and the deck is springy. drill and extra row of three holes and don't look back IMO.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:05 PM
MunroeM MunroeM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghfalls View Post
If you put your beam at 14' to the far edge from the house you'll be less than 13'8" from the house to use 2x10 instead of 2x12. FYI the rim board on your house is emercore which is 2 layers of 7/16 osb sandwiching 1 1/2" of foam. Good stuff but bad for decks. Who was your builder? Some builders get us framers to put a beam on the outside of the emercore, where decks are, while some don't. Avi does beam, pacesetter doesn't for example. Emercore is rated to hold deck nailers, but the nail pattern should be 3 nails every 6". Ember core is 2 1/2" thick. I'd use 4 1/2" screws. 3 every 6" or so and you'll be good.
This home is a Reidbuilt home from 2011.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:11 PM
MunroeM MunroeM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I also wouldn't use 2x12 onto a 2x10 ledger already attached to the house - your joist hangers will not be properly secured and you risk a failed inspection.

I also agree you must attach your ledger with heavy coated screws or lags. Just mark your joist position first and attach the lags or heavy screws between those in a V pattern. I'd also add some flashing to the top of the ledger.

With 2x10 joists @ 16 OC you are going to require a set of piles as you can't span the full 16ft.

Now if you went 15' out on the longest joists - minus a ~20" cantilever you could get away with a span under 13'8".

I'd suggest, nevertheless, a second set of piles anyways. You span at or near the max and the deck is springy. drill and extra row of three holes and don't look back IMO.
There currently is flashing on top of the ledger board.

I had a feeling a middle beam was going to be required. Guess put a little more work in the foundation will ensure a strong deck in the end.

Thanks for the info
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:12 PM
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Attilathecanuk Attilathecanuk is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghfalls View Post
If you put your beam at 14' to the far edge from the house you'll be less than 13'8" from the house to use 2x10 instead of 2x12. FYI the rim board on your house is emercore which is 2 layers of 7/16 osb sandwiching 1 1/2" of foam. Good stuff but bad for decks. Who was your builder? Some builders get us framers to put a beam on the outside of the emercore, where decks are, while some don't. Avi does beam, pacesetter doesn't for example. Emercore is rated to hold deck nailers, but the nail pattern should be 3 nails every 6". Ember core is 2 1/2" thick. I'd use 4 1/2" screws. 3 every 6" or so and you'll be good.
Good advice here. ^^To add to my comments as well, double up the end joists for stiffness, future stairs and handrail post backing.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:23 PM
mmhmmmm mmhmmmm is offline
 
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Default Deck build questions

I am pretty confident that with a 2’ setback beam you would be fine with 2x10 joists on 2x10 beam, as long as you did at least one row of solid blocking. But 2 rows would be ideal. I think you can find span tables that take solid blocking into account and it should work out. Also I think if you go 12” o.c it will also increase your allowable span, and some composite deck manufactures recommend 12”, something to consider for the future.

The user above me who said 6’ or deeper for piles is absolutely right. I think the rule is the first 3-4 feet don’t count. Wherever the frost gets down to. I like screws piles since they are one subtrade in an out all done. Approx 300 a pile from my reliable installer. I have seen adds on kijiji for less though.

For the ledger I highly recommend “GRK” structural screws. They are torn drive screws meant to mimick lag bolts. They can be found in special displays at Home Depot. If the rim board is what an earlier user mentioned, a foam assembly, follow his directions closely, as that is now an ideal setup for strength imo, and it sounds like he knows exactly what you need to do.


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Last edited by mmhmmmm; 05-24-2018 at 11:31 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:07 AM
MunroeM MunroeM is offline
 
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I found a document on the Emercor rim boards and in there it has a section on fastening requirements. I'm assuming the home builder used the 12d nail option for fastening listed in the table. In the load section it says the load is 183 Lbs what does that mean?

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