No more barbless hooks in Alberta?

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by trooper

BeeGuy, How is barbs unethical if I'm not doing C&R? I fish to eat period. I refuse to fish streams and bodies of water that harbor a protected species. I only fish put and take bodies of water. So I ask you again, what is unethical about eating your catch??
That's what fishing was invented for

I think there was some sarcasm in BeeGuy's post that may have been missed...

[trooper]

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

I think there was some sarcasm in BeeGuy's post that may have been missed...

Ok I'll give him that.. I guess I shouldnt get so darned defensive.

[BeeGuy]

Pure sarcasm.

I know that barbs are not having any difference in fish mortality as I use both barbed and barbless regularly and I have read the primary literature.

I do think trebles make a difference over similar sized single hooks ie 1/0 single vs 1/0 treble,

however that is not the issue at hand.

I dont care either way and use both.

[braggadoe]

the purpose of a barb, is to hold the hook in the tissue.

there has been studies that show, the act off hooking a fish with barbed vs barbless makes no difference.

the difference comes when trying to remove a barbed vs barbless hook. barbed hooks ARE more difficult to remove, which increases the handling time, which means more stress on the fish. not every time......but more times with barbed vs barbless.

there is a reason doctors,veterinary,body piercing,acupuncture, etc. don't use barbed instruments when the instrument is going to be removed later. thier harder to remove.

excessive/poor fish handling causes the increase in mortality. be it barbs,picture taking, fish out off the water to long, measuring,weighing, ect.

if your too lazy to pinch a barb and require barbs to land fish. carry on.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

the purpose of a barb, is to hold the hook in the tissue.

there has been studies that show, the act off hooking a fish with barbed vs barbless makes no difference.

the difference comes when trying to remove a barbed vs barbless hook. barbed hooks ARE more difficult to remove, which increases the handling time, which means more stress on the fish. not every time......but more times with barbed vs barbless.

there is a reason doctors,veterinary,body piercing,acupuncture, etc. don't use barbed instruments when the instrument is going to be removed later. thier harder to remove.

excessive/poor fish handling causes the increase in mortality. be it barbs,picture taking, fish out off the water to long, measuring,weighing, ect.

if your too lazy to pinch a barb and require barbs to land fish. carry on.

I have seen poor handling regardless of barbs. If poor handling is your primary issue...target that versus barbs.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

the purpose of a barb, is to hold the hook in the tissue.

there has been studies that show, the act off hooking a fish with barbed vs barbless makes no difference.

the difference comes when trying to remove a barbed vs barbless hook. barbed hooks ARE more difficult to remove, which increases the handling time, which means more stress on the fish. not every time......but more times with barbed vs barbless.

there is a reason doctors,veterinary,body piercing,acupuncture, etc. don't use barbed instruments when the instrument is going to be removed later. thier harder to remove.

excessive/poor fish handling causes the increase in mortality. be it barbs,picture taking, fish out off the water to long, measuring,weighing, ect.

if your too lazy to pinch a barb and require barbs to land fish. carry on.

See you have too many different arguments in this statement.....then you insinuate that people who use barbs are lazy and it hurts your argument further.....

I think if someone is at a put and take lake and intends on keeping there catch then use what ever you like.

If the fish you are targeting are strictly C&R then again use whatever you like but barbless would be a reasonable choice in the circumstance.

LC

[braggadoe]

foresure, if a fish for supper is the objective. fish mortality is not an issue, it is the objective.

i was speaking to "barbed hooks don't impact fish mortality." barbs are harder to remove, thus increase fish mortality due to increased handling. not all the time,not most of the time, but sometimes.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

foresure, if a fish for supper is the objective. fish mortality is not an issue, it is the objective.

i was speaking to "barbed hooks don't impact fish mortality." barbs are harder to remove, thus increase fish mortality due to increased handling. not all the time,not most of the time, but sometimes.

As in little significant difference.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

the purpose of a barb, is to hold the hook in the tissue.

there has been studies that show, the act off hooking a fish with barbed vs barbless makes no difference.

the difference comes when trying to remove a barbed vs barbless hook. barbed hooks ARE more difficult to remove, which increases the handling time, which means more stress on the fish. not every time......but more times with barbed vs barbless.

there is a reason doctors,veterinary,body piercing,acupuncture, etc. don't use barbed instruments when the instrument is going to be removed later. thier harder to remove.

excessive/poor fish handling causes the increase in mortality. be it barbs,picture taking, fish out off the water to long, measuring,weighing, ect.

if your too lazy to pinch a barb and require barbs to land fish. carry on.

Do you use pliers or forceps to remove hooks? Or do you prefer the ease of hand removal?

[braggadoe]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

As in little significant difference.

little significant difference, multiplied by thousands and thousands of anglers equals a significant difference.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

little significant difference, multiplied by thousands and thousands of anglers equals a significant difference.

Still equals little significant difference.


Are you going to answer the question? Bet you choose the ease of hand removal. See lots of barbless guys trying to "fish" the hook out with their fingers(because of the easy out of barbless?). They end up messing around with the fish because it is supposed to be easier.

Barbed or barbless-use a pair of pliers/forceps and removal is easier! Lip hooked fish can be released in the water with a simple twist of the pliers/forceps. There is no time difference(at least not that you could perceive). Since the inception of barbless it has been all to common to see an angler struggling with a fish trying to remove a barbless hook with his fingers! I have seen plenty of people with their fingers in a small trout trying to dislodge the barbless hook!

bragadoe you can deny being a finger releaser, but think about it. Bet you see the same thing.

[braggadoe]

not sure what you mean by twisting, but the last thing i would do is twist a hook out of a fish.maybe you mean roll it out, the the opposite way it went in?

was talking barb/barbless. it's allways a fun conversation. if you'ld like to talk release, o.k.

i rarely, if ever, touch a fish i catch myself. unless i'm going to eat it.

all the flies i use, and sell, are 100% barbless. i'm into the take,tug,rise,pull,strike, ect. i could care less about playing a fish, and get them in as fast as possible. if they get off, even better.

once close in, drop some slack and more often than not, they come unbuttoned on there own.

if that doesn't work. strip the fly right up too the tiptop,a short 1-2 inch poke often pops the fly right out. doesn't work if your fishing with split shot/indicators. never use either, myself.

once in a while(rarely), i'll tail my own fish, and use pliers,forceps,leather man. push the fly back the opposite way it went in. and remove.

sometimes i do have problems releasing fish for other people who haven't pinched their barbs enough/at all. it's my job, it's what i do. it's always cause by barbs.

immediately i cut the line. grab the eye of the hook, applying pressure down, and pushing the hook back out the way it went in. the same way i use a loop of line around the hook bend. to remove barbed hooks from myself,my dog, and other people.

if i see other anglers hooked up, i go and help them too. even if they're are not my own clients. if they want it, or not. learned long ago, the best way to avoid watching a "beach bouncing" fiasco. is to offer assistance asap. i can't stand seeing fish that are going to be released,bouncing around on the rocks/mud/sand

maybe some day, i will have handled as many fish as you and beeguy. until then i'm sticking with barbless hook.

[recce43]

it just come down to choice if you want to use barbless than go ahead if you want to use barbs then go ahead if its al legal who iam i to judge what other people are doing .
My 2 cents worth

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

not sure what you mean by twisting, but the last thing i would do is twist a hook out of a fish.maybe you mean roll it out, the the opposite way it went in?

was talking barb/barbless. it's allways a fun conversation. if you'ld like to talk release, o.k.

i rarely, if ever, touch a fish i catch myself. unless i'm going to eat it.

all the flies i use, and sell, are 100% barbless. i'm into the take,tug,rise,pull,strike, ect. i could care less about playing a fish, and get them in as fast as possible. if they get off, even better.

once close in, drop some slack and more often than not, they come unbuttoned on there own.

if that doesn't work. strip the fly right up too the tiptop,a short 1-2 inch poke often pops the fly right out. doesn't work if your fishing with split shot/indicators. never use either, myself.

once in a while(rarely), i'll tail my own fish, and use pliers,forceps,leather man. push the fly back the opposite way it went in. and remove.

sometimes i do have problems releasing fish for other people who haven't pinched their barbs enough/at all. it's my job, it's what i do. it's always cause by barbs.

immediately i cut the line. grab the eye of the hook, applying pressure down, and pushing the hook back out the way it went in. the same way i use a loop of line around the hook bend. to remove barbed hooks from myself,my dog, and other people.

if i see other anglers hooked up, i go and help them too. even if they're are not my own clients. if they want it, or not. learned long ago, the best way to avoid watching a "beach bouncing" fiasco. is to offer assistance asap. i can't stand seeing fish that are going to be released,bouncing around on the rocks/mud/sand

maybe some day, i will have handled as many fish as you and beeguy. until then i'm sticking with barbless hook.

And that's the way it should be - Choice not law.

[JohninAB]

I for one say no choice make it law again. Fish deserve it and if you need a barb to catch a fish and not loose it as many bemoaned when the law first came in, then maybe fishing ain't your cup of tea.

Remember back in the day at Pigeon catching walleyes and their lips were ripped to rat crap from people yanking barbs out. Taking a barb out of flesh by pulling it backwards will cause a bigger wound channel than a barbless hook. If you do not believe it, stick a barbed hook in the flesh of your palm and pull it back the way it went in and then stick a barbless hook in your palm and pull it out the same way. Hmmm, wonder which one will cause more pain and damage to tissue? Not saying it is going to kill but damage to tissue is the critical point in my mind. And for those who want to argue this, well lets meet up and you can run the test. I will videotape the test and post it on here for all to see.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I for one say no choice make it law again. Fish deserve it and if you need a barb to catch a fish and not loose it as many bemoaned when the law first came in, then maybe fishing ain't your cup of tea.

Remember back in the day at Pigeon catching walleyes and their lips were ripped to rat crap from people yanking barbs out. Taking a barb out of flesh by pulling it backwards will cause a bigger wound channel than a barbless hook. If you do not believe it, stick a barbed hook in the flesh of your palm and pull it back the way it went in and then stick a barbless hook in your palm and pull it out the same way. Hmmm, wonder which one will cause more pain and damage to tissue? Not saying it is going to kill but damage to tissue is the critical point in my mind. And for those who want to argue this, well lets meet up and you can run the test. I will videotape the test and post it on here for all to see.

LOL same offer stands. You first if you survive I will not need to do it There has never been a more useless law than the barbless law!

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Actually not true. The truth is that Ralph Klein liked to go fishing. He however also loved fishing in northern Manitoba and while fishing there marveled at how many fish there were to catch.

He then noted that regs there were barbless. He then connected the dots to say that barbless means better fishing. He was not a biologist and did not add in any causal relationship between location and fishing pressure.

He then came back to Alberta and mandated barbless to the F&W minions. They in turn put it in motion to a large number of professional complaints and quiet protests.

This has nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with science. Everything to do with Klein's good hearted yet misguided intentions.

Where is your substantive proof for such assertions?

Show us.

Do you tell your students items like this every day?

Stuff like this reminds me of Keegstra.

The Calgary papers would love this.

[greylynx]

Barbed versus barbless is not going to affect the fish populations.

A good rest from fishing pressure will help the fish populations.

Alberta does not have the water to support the increasing number of anglers and those with special rights.

Unfortunately, too many Albertans and new Albertans do not realize this problem.

The fisheries in Alberta have pretty well collapsed.

Snivelling about barbed versus barbless is not the problem...you are the problem.

[BeeGuy]

I am the problem.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

LOL same offer stands. You first if you survive I will not need to do it There has never been a more useless law than the barbless law!

Best reread my post and try to comprehend what I stated. Never said anything about surviving I stated the tissue damage is more with a barb versus a barbless hook.

Your remarks of me first only goes to prove my point and I rest easy knowing the barbless law will be back, sooner than later!

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I for one say no choice make it law again. Fish deserve it and if you need a barb to catch a fish and not loose it as many bemoaned when the law first came in, then maybe fishing ain't your cup of tea.

Remember back in the day at Pigeon catching walleyes and their lips were ripped to rat crap from people yanking barbs out. Taking a barb out of flesh by pulling it backwards will cause a bigger wound channel than a barbless hook. If you do not believe it, stick a barbed hook in the flesh of your palm and pull it back the way it went in and then stick a barbless hook in your palm and pull it out the same way. Hmmm, wonder which one will cause more pain and damage to tissue? Not saying it is going to kill but damage to tissue is the critical point in my mind. And for those who want to argue this, well lets meet up and you can run the test. I will videotape the test and post it on here for all to see.

Why do you put the onus on others when you are perfectly capable of proving your absurd example yourself?

[BeeGuy]

Why have all our PETA fishermen not designed a hookless method of catching fish?

Barbs are not the issue, hooks are.

jam a hook into your face and see how much it hurts and how much damage it causes,

then, don't jam a hook in your face and see how little it hurts and how little damage is caused.

The conclusion is clear.

Ban hooks.

It is the only ethical solution and our fish deserve the best.

9/10 dentists agree, a hooked fish is more likely to be depressed and have low self-esteem than an unhooked fish.

[JohninAB]

Absurd, PETA fishermen. What a weak retort. Congrats on that.

[#249]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Why have all our PETA fishermen not designed a hookless method of catching fish?

Barbs are not the issue, hooks are.

jam a hook into your face and see how much it hurts and how much damage it causes,

then, don't jam a hook in your face and see how little it hurts and how little damage is caused.

The conclusion is clear.

Ban hooks.

It is the only ethical solution and our fish deserve the best.

9/10 dentists agree, a hooked fish is more likely to be depressed and have low self-esteem than an unhooked fish.

I love the concept.............let's make fishing POINTLESS.

Instead of requiring anglers to remove only the barb from their hook, pass a law that requires them to remove the point from their hook.

The barbless hook zealots should love this regulation, and will no doubt agree that making fishing POINTLESS causes even less damage to fish than fishing with a barbless hook. After all, the hook won't penetrate the fish and there will be no stress from mishandling the fish, cuz there is virtually no chance of landing it.

[BeeGuy]

amazing

[recce43]

so i guess barbless hook people do not want anybody to keep any fish all catch and release for frig sakes all this crap about barbless and barbed hooks we are all our own worst enemies ..... next it will be no fishing at all .... This whole forum is all in fighting blame this blame that im done

[anthony5]

I guess there is no pleasing every one so if it is such a big issue as to how fishing hooks are configured,barbs or no barbs, maybe no hooks period, which I am sure would please some people, maybe we should go back to the good ole snare. Would sure get rid of some of the armchair fishermen, and all would be good

[timsesink]

I've been watching, but I guess I'll wade in. I feel that its my duty to do the least harm I can do to a fish. Just as its my duty to make the best, most humane shot on animals. Barbless hooks usually create less tissue damage and lead to less handling. While neither of these may cause mortality they do create added opportunities for stress and sickness. I'll go barbless but certainly won't judge those who don't.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Best reread my post and try to comprehend what I stated. Never said anything about surviving I stated the tissue damage is more with a barb versus a barbless hook.

Your remarks of me first only goes to prove my point and I rest easy knowing the barbless law will be back, sooner than later!

I comprehend more than you think and obviously more than you. What part of little significant difference don't you understand? Tissue damage, cmon??? Your arguments and examples for barbless are very weak. Doubt it will be back.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Breaking news Barbed hooks again Illegal . I guess maybe that was wishfull thinking . I don't know I will remain barbless because I know If I get a good hook set and keep my line tight that fishing isn't going no where but into the net .

x 2 on what Johninab says .