Jim Shockey Speaks on BC Grizzly Bear Ban

[wildbill]

Originally Posted by Newview01

If they call it a traditional hunt, they should use traditional tools.

The very concept of one group having more rights than another is racist. I’m not sure why so many selectively support racism.

Exactly, a high powered rifle and a mini van ain’t part of the their traditional hunting tools, all the Trudeau supporters just start calling you a racist, if you want to have equal rights to other people, it’s no different than being allowed to wear a mask with an rpal with no picture on it and by a handgun, but according to some, seems like most, I’m the bad guys for wanting to be treated equally to others.

[sask/alta boy]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Apples and oranges, gay movement endorses an alternative lifestyle between consenting adults. The majority of people are ok with it, nobody really gives a crap what consenting adults do among themselves. However hunters are endorsing and pushing an agenda that endorses killing animals that have not consented to being killed or maimed and more and more people are speaking up for the animals right to live free from threat from hunters the majority of which don't hunt for survival but rather for sport. Society views this rather differently than they do alternative lifestyle agenda. They view it about the same as rape where one person forces themselves on an unconsenting victim.

For decades the anti hunting, anti trapping crusaders like PETA, Greenpeace, Fund for animals, etc., have spent millions , probably billions travelling the planet to find film footage of gruesome hunting and trapping scenes to use against us. It has worked and anti hunting activism has grown exponentially over the last 50 years. Along comes social media and now the hunters and trappers, might as well throw in fishermen and these anti hunting advocate groups don't have to do any work or spend any money to produce commercials, documentaries, and pictures to use against us. Hunters are doing their job for them. We're providing the shovel and digging our own grave while they stand back nodding and winking.

As I said before, we need to think twice about what we put on social media and television and how it may be viewed and used by the majority against us. Nothing wrong with standing up for our belief and posting respectful to the animal pictures and video, but we should use our heads and stop with the gore and botched shooting footage of wounded animals floundering around and other such material that some people seemingly post pretty much purposely to offend and alienate non hunters. We should be trying to gain these peoples support, not stick a fork in their eye. Oil companies don't advertising their oil spills, they advertise their ethical clean up and their high environmental standards, you don't see hospitals advertising botched abortions or operations gone bad, we hunters should stop posting the stuff that we all know will cast a negative light on our sport.

Rich, I watch your show and for a trapping show you do a very good job, you don't express a kill 'em all mentality, you talk about conservation, humane kills, nature, and are a great liaison for first nations and their relation to their trapping heritage. I find your show tastefully presented and surprisingly few non trappers I know find it offensive either. You know yourself that if you produced shows showing yourself holding up a struggling live coyote with a snare while you hoot and holler, commenting it was snared badly and joyfully announced how it suffered greatly and the only good coyote is a dead coyote, or 5 minute footage of a mink chewing its leg off to get out of a trap, etc., You know stuff like this wouldn't go over too well and your hate mail would go up exponentially. I wouldn't want to watch it. It's no different for the rest of the hunting community, like you hunters need to know where to draw the line and be ambassadors for our sport not assasins of it.

That's right on point. seems to me if it isn't about grandstanding or money some people just don't see the soul in it.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by sask/alta boy

That's right on point. seems to me if it isn't about grandstanding or money some people just don't see the soul in it.

[58thecat]

The gong show still continues eh....thought the mods would have turned the page in this one.

[Bisch]

Originally Posted by Sitting Bull

Obviously I am a hunter. I still cannot get used to walking up to a dead animal with gobs of blood out the nostrils or the mouth. For a split moment I think of the animal and hope there was no suffering and I thank God for this beautiful bounty.

This is something the rest of the world does not see from us as hunters, our humanity and our gratefulness for the gift that we have been given.

When we post things for everybody to see, we can't expect them to understand. They see one beautiful majestic animal on the ground with blood all over it. The sight upsets them and off they go. We don't need to give the rest of the world a reason to take away from us a way of life that is pleasing and rewarding to us. We will never convert them to our way of thinking . We have all kinds of hunting forums that we can post on without drawing attention to us. So stop posting on social media! Don't do it. Like Bob Newhart used to say on the psychiatrist skit " STOP, STOP IT"

Just my .02

^^^ x2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Lol. I can't believe someone believes what I just read.

Then read it again, because that is what I believe. If there is racism here, there seems to be lots against FN if you think you are entitled to use all the modern technology and they must go primative

Yep as someone stated that there may not have been licensing in the days that the treaties were signed but that does not give an automatic out of the treaty. I wish there was no treaties or no reserves for that matter, but the answer to that is not to just void the treaty.

Actually Newview01, Lol. I can not believe the stuff that you write most of the time.

[BPost]

Originally Posted by DJS

If that's the case then why are they not targeting cow elk on Suffield? Truck loads of big bulls were taken out by indigenous the first couple years they opened it up for hunting. How about the Jasper hunt? Did you see the animals taken on that "traditional" hunt? They're hunting heritage has nothing to do with the way the majority of indigenous people hunt now a days. I'm just calling it as I see it.

The problem we face today really has nothing to do with trophy hunting or posting things to social media. It's the fact that the left wing people in our societies are making more noise than those on the right. Most of them live in the concrete jungles which we call urban centers and have no idea what happens in the real world. And I think it's wrong to try hide how we live and keep hunting as we know it on the down low.

I totally agree. The indigenous people also took the large bulls from Suffield and sold the trophy antlers down in the USA. Why do the indeginose people from other provinces have to go to Suffield? Because the bull elk were world class & easy to kill. I do see them working as hard as real hunters for their animals. Jasper next the Banff again. They started thus year in Camp Wainwright for moose but at least there they regulated what they could take (They should have in Suffield to make it fair for everyone.). Sorry for going off topic a bit but what I am getting at is the anti hunters are not including the indeginose people because they are scared they will be called RACISTS.

[covey ridge]

Yes those FN people are not following their traditional ways of harvesting game. Not using bone or stone knives and bows made from saskatoon branches and not herding animals off jumps to a slow death.

No one especially non FN are really into much traditional ways. Rifles, scopes and Lazer range finders and the ability to kill at ridiculous extreme range is not really traditional hunting.

Why is it that FN should not avail themselves of the best technology that non FN are entitled to use?

Trespassing without permission is not exactly an exclusive first nation thing. Reading these threads it seem that a lot of those that seem entitled to game no matter where they range is more of a non FN thing.

For the most part FN are allowed to hunt on reserves and crown land and private property where they have permission and are allowed to hunt most of the year. Other than that, FN do not have much else that would interest the average Canadian., Why would FN want to give up anything that they have a treaty right to without gaining something else in return?

There are many Canadians that have so much but still complain that they are not treated as equals with FN. The truth is that they only want to be equal with FN in their entitlements to game. Other than that non FN seem OK with FN non being equal and many want them to stay on the reserves.

I do not feel that my rights as a Canadian are infringed one bit by allowing FN to harvest according to their treaty rights and by way of any modern method they choose.

[BPost]

Originally Posted by Sitting Bull

Obviously I am a hunter. I still cannot get used to walking up to a dead animal with gobs of blood out the nostrils or the mouth. For a split moment I think of the animal and hope there was no suffering and I thank God for this beautiful bounty.
This is something the rest of the world does not see from us as hunters, our humanity and our gratefulness for the gift that we have been given.
When we post things for everybody to see, we can't expect them to understand. They see one beautiful majestic animal on the ground with blood all over it. The sight upsets them and off they go. We don't need to give the rest of the world a reason to take away from us a way of life that is pleasing and rewarding to us. We will never convert them to our way of thinking . We have all kinds of hunting forums that we can post on without drawing attention to us. So stop posting on social media! Don't do it. Like Bob Newhart used to say on the psychiatrist skit " STOP, STOP IT"
Just my .02

What about freedom of speech. Hunters don't have rights? If they don't like it don't look. How about if I say I don't like kids and don't want to see those pictures on social media (not true). I am just saying we hunters have rights and we should not have to tip toe around the anti hunters.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Yes those FN people are not following their traditional ways of harvesting game. Not using bone or stone knives and bows made from saskatoon branches and not herding animals off jumps to a slow death.

No one especially non FN are really into much traditional ways. Rifles, scopes and Lazer range finders and the ability to kill at ridiculous extreme range is not really traditional hunting.

Why is it that FN should not avail themselves of the best technology that non FN are entitled to use?

Trespassing without permission is not exactly an exclusive first nation thing. Reading these threads it seem that a lot of those that seem entitled to game no matter where they range is more of a non FN thing.

For the most part FN are allowed to hunt on reserves and crown land and private property where they have permission and are allowed to hunt most of the year. Other than that, FN do not have much else that would interest the average Canadian., Why would FN want to give up anything that they have a treaty right to without gaining something else in return?

There are many Canadians that have so much but still complain that they are not treated as equals with FN. The truth is that they only want to be equal with FN in their entitlements to game. Other than that non FN seem OK with FN non being equal and many want them to stay on the reserves.

I do not feel that my rights as a Canadian are infringed one bit by allowing FN to harvest according to their treaty rights and by way of any modern method they choose.

The most common thing I see people complaining about with First Nation people’s when it comes to the outdoors is the ones who abuse the system. The ones who go and net hundreds of fish, damaging a fishery then they sell them to restaurants which is illegal. The ones who shoot as many animals as thy can and sell the meat and or the antlers, the ones who hunt out an area and make it devoid of animals for years. Thankfully there aren’t too many who do that but there are enough to damage game populations and f&w doesn’t pursue them as they generally get off anyways. Most people aren’t going to say anything about anfellow going and shooting an elk or moose to feed their family but when they gun down a small herd to sell it it’s a different story.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by slough shark

The most common thing I see people complaining about with First Nation people’s when it comes to the outdoors is the ones who abuse the system. The ones who go and net hundreds of fish, damaging a fishery then they sell them to restaurants which is illegal. The ones who shoot as many animals as thy can and sell the meat and or the antlers, the ones who hunt out an area and make it devoid of animals for years. Thankfully there aren’t too many who do that but there are enough to damage game populations and f&w doesn’t pursue them as they generally get off anyways. Most people aren’t going to say anything about anfellow going and shooting an elk or moose to feed their family but when they gun down a small herd to sell it it’s a different story.

I have no tolerance for the ones that abuse the system and I have no problem with the ones who are hunting to feed the family. I also have no problem with those that choose to be trophy hunters.

I do have problems with the many posts I see here on AO that seem to accuse Canada of being unjust for honoring the treaties and suggest that is government supported racism by continuing FN hunting rights.

I also think that the FN that abuse their hunting rights may have learned that way by from non FN hide hunters and the market hunters and from a deal that confined them to a small chunk of land that could not handle much hunting pressure.

I am just tired that whenever game management is talked about, FN abuse is the first thing and sometimes the only thing put on the table.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I have no tolerance for the ones that abuse the system and I have no problem with the ones who are hunting to feed the family. I also have no problem with those that choose to be trophy hunters.

I do have problems with the many posts I see here on AO that seem to accuse Canada of being unjust for honoring the treaties and suggest that is government supported racism by continuing FN hunting rights.

I also think that the FN that abuse their hunting rights may have learned that way by from non FN hide hunters and the market hunters and from a deal that confined them to a small chunk of land that could not handle much hunting pressure.

I am just tired that whenever game management is talked about, FN abuse is the first thing and sometimes the only thing put on the table.

It should never be the first or only thing on the table, abuse is something that should be put on the table though, maybe issue free tags to limit harvest to what a family needs? When talking management everything needs to be on the table so that we can actually manage game populations whether that means non resident harvest, resident harvest or fn harvest. But back to the issue on hand predator management, as hunters we need to educate the general population about the benefits of managing populations of both predators and ungulates to maintain a healthy population of both as to avoid the violent population swings if we do nothing.

[covey ridge]

[B][QUOTE=slough shark;[/B]3704618]It should never be the first or only thing on the table, abuse is something that should be put on the table though, [QUOTE]

But not just FN abuse!

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I have no tolerance for the ones that abuse the system and I have no problem with the ones who are hunting to feed the family. I also have no problem with those that choose to be trophy hunters.

There is a greater proportion of FN abusing their hunting rights than non-FN, whether you like it or not. This includes those who do not practice wildlife conservation practices, which non-FN people have no choice but to follow, thankfully. If FN truly cared about preserving the tradition of hunting they would consistently hunt in ways that do so.

I do have problems with the many posts I see here on AO that seem to accuse Canada of being unjust for honoring the treaties and suggest that is government supported racism by continuing FN hunting rights.

I also think that the FN that abuse their hunting rights may have learned that way by from non FN hide hunters and the market hunters and from a deal that confined them to a small chunk of land that could not handle much hunting pressure.

I am just tired that whenever game management is talked about, FN abuse is the first thing and sometimes the only thing put on the table.

First - the treaties contain a clause that specifically states that the treaties may be suspended or changed from time to time as the government of the day sees fit. Your statements that the treaties should be renegotiated is unrealistic, thanks to all the affirmative action folks out there they would probably end up with even more than they have. The treaties need to be torn up and burned. With great fanfare.

Second - are you blaming non-FN people for FN hunting rights abuses? Really?

This thread has obviously strayed somewhat, but the subject matter is still relative.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Show us the stats

Now you are being ridiculous

[slough shark]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;3704663][B][QUOTE=slough shark;[/B]3704618]It should never be the first or only thing on the table, abuse is something that should be put on the table though,

But not just FN abuse!

Lol you know what I meant, abusing their right to hunt whatever, whenever etc...without limit

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Now you are being ridiculous

Of all the articles concerning questionable hunting practices from any news source that I read as far back as I can remember, the majority involve FN.

You would be foolish to not realize that allowing FN to hunt as much as they are allowed will throw the idea of conservation out the window. Should we be trying to conserve, or appease?

So I admit, I do not have a statistic. But can there be a statistic? Other than trespassing, can FN poach? I see a problem here.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Of all the articles concerning questionable hunting practices from any news source that I read as far back as I can remember, the majority involve FN.

You would be foolish to not realize that allowing FN to hunt as much as they are allowed will throw the idea of conservation out the window. Should we be trying to conserve, or appease?

So I admit, I do not have a statistic. But can there be a statistic? Other than trespassing, can FN poach? I see a problem here.

That's what I thought. You have no facts. Just speculation based on you own personal newview or bias! The only problem I see here is you!

There is lots of poaching and trespassing going on and not all of it FN. I don't know the proportion but I do not claim to. I do not claim that FN is more or less than non FN.

When you make a claim that there are more FN abusers than others, get your facts in order.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

That's what I thought. You have no facts. Just speculation based on you own personal newview or bias! The only problem I see here is you!

There is lots of poaching and trespassing going on and not all of it FN. I don't know the proportion but I do not claim to. I do not claim that FN is more or less than non FN.

When you make a claim that there are more FN abusers than others, get your facts in order.

When discussing F/N on this site no facts are required just an ignorant attitude and very little if any truth, anything that degrades F/N seems to be acceptable.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by bobalong

When discussing F/N on this site no facts are required just an ignorant attitude and very little if any truth, anything that degrades F/N seems to be acceptable.

It is bothersome when ignorance shows up for sure, it seems that it is hard to have an honest conversation with respect on both sides while addressing issues that ought to be addressed. A lot gets lost in text I suspect and people’s emotions run high on things they care about.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

That's what I thought. You have no facts. Just speculation based on you own personal newview or bias! The only problem I see here is you!

There is lots of poaching and trespassing going on and not all of it FN. I don't know the proportion but I do not claim to. I do not claim that FN is more or less than non FN.

When you make a claim that there are more FN abusers than others, get your facts in order.

Originally Posted by bobalong

When discussing F/N on this site no facts are required just an ignorant attitude and very little if any truth, anything that degrades F/N seems to be acceptable.

Originally Posted by slough shark

It is bothersome when ignorance shows up for sure, it seems that it is hard to have an honest conversation with respect on both sides while addressing issues that ought to be addressed. A lot gets lost in text I suspect and people’s emotions run high on things they care about.

You guys are funny, and don’t see the problem for what it is. Say what you want, but until all hunters are forced to abide by the same rules, we shouldn’t expect to enjoy what we have for much longer.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Apples and oranges, gay movement endorses an alternative lifestyle between consenting adults. The majority of people are ok with it, nobody really gives a crap what consenting adults do among themselves. However hunters are endorsing and pushing an agenda that endorses killing animals that have not consented to being killed or maimed and more and more people are speaking up for the animals right to live free from threat from hunters the majority of which don't hunt for survival but rather for sport. Society views this rather differently than they do alternative lifestyle agenda. They view it about the same as rape where one person forces themselves on an unconsenting victim.

For decades the anti hunting, anti trapping crusaders like PETA, Greenpeace, Fund for animals, etc., have spent millions , probably billions travelling the planet to find film footage of gruesome hunting and trapping scenes to use against us. It has worked and anti hunting activism has grown exponentially over the last 50 years. Along comes social media and now the hunters and trappers, might as well throw in fishermen and these anti hunting advocate groups don't have to do any work or spend any money to produce commercials, documentaries, and pictures to use against us. Hunters are doing their job for them. We're providing the shovel and digging our own grave while they stand back nodding and winking.

As I said before, we need to think twice about what we put on social media and television and how it may be viewed and used by the majority against us. Nothing wrong with standing up for our belief and posting respectful to the animal pictures and video, but we should use our heads and stop with the gore and botched shooting footage of wounded animals floundering around and other such material that some people seemingly post pretty much purposely to offend and alienate non hunters. We should be trying to gain these peoples support, not stick a fork in their eye. Oil companies don't advertising their oil spills, they advertise their ethical clean up and their high environmental standards, you don't see hospitals advertising botched abortions or operations gone bad, we hunters should stop posting the stuff that we all know will cast a negative light on our sport.

Rich, I watch your show and for a trapping show you do a very good job, you don't express a kill 'em all mentality, you talk about conservation, humane kills, nature, and are a great liaison for first nations and their relation to their trapping heritage. I find your show tastefully presented and surprisingly few non trappers I know find it offensive either. You know yourself that if you produced shows showing yourself holding up a struggling live coyote with a snare while you hoot and holler, commenting it was snared badly and joyfully announced how it suffered greatly and the only good coyote is a dead coyote, or 5 minute footage of a mink chewing its leg off to get out of a trap, etc., You know stuff like this wouldn't go over too well and your hate mail would go up exponentially. I wouldn't want to watch it. It's no different for the rest of the hunting community, like you hunters need to know where to draw the line and be ambassadors for our sport not assasins of it.

You are correct, I've never promoted the tasteless behavior that occurs all the time on social media. In fact I spend too much time removing just that type of picture and video from my social media feeds. I can't fix stupid and there is no way to make some people understand where they are going wrong so I just don't try. I just make sure I'm not associated with any of it.
My hope and mission with the show is to educate trappers and non trappers alike. Some want to learn new techniques others just want to learn about the life. Right now judging by the emails and messages we get (hundreds a week!) about three quarters of our viewers are NOT trappers but people just interested in the life.
As usual I didn't communicate very well in my first post. When I said don't hide in the closet I meant that there are many ways to present a subject, almost any subject that is acceptable. Who would have thought a trapping show would air on TV and be extremely popular? I've had many people tell me they thought I was going to get shell shocked right out of the TV industry. It hasn't happened but as you pointed out we don't go in for the shock approach . I never believed that sensationalism was needed for any outdoor programming. I've always thought that real was far more interesting than "reality" and I have lots of people who agree with me.
Like anything if you deal with your subject with respect and present a balanced viewpoint very few people are offended. My total negative correspondence for the show for three years can be counted on one hand.

[WillyOneStyle]

On this (7th) page of this thread there is no mention of Jim Shockey, British Columbia or Grizzly bears.

[Don_Parsons]

I watched the video again last night to see what was not mentioned in the interview.

Vote for elected officials that work with us,,, of course this might not work out since hunters are a very very small % of the population.

I'm "guessing," and only that.
In todays world, hunting is socially unexpectible to the majority of humans, call it left or right. I'm sure that many of us can see where this road is leading in years to come.

Hopeful wrong

Don

[Gbuss]

MY thoughts. If the anties are bulling us hunter it is time to stand up. We need to fight back lobby the Gov. they can why can't we do the same. It is time for change adds on all channels telling people what kind of cash hunters put in to conservation.

We as hunter have sat back for to long letting these groups push us around. They will continue until they get their way. We need to post photos of are kills and be proud. Why should we be quite. We should be loud and proud of what we do.

[Don_Parsons]

Maybe we can could turn back the pages of time to harvest /scavenger that we once we're.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting

The movement of anti-hunting took hold in or around 2004 ish give or take.

A short version can be read in the "See Also" listing.

Anti-hunting,,, animal rights was talked about in 1792-1882, it gained foot hold in 1970 when Richard D. Ryder took to the stage promoting this idea of Rights for all living animals.

At the time it was refer to as, fur farms, and general live stock, but over time has spread into the wild game category.

Intresting read for those of us that choose to get up to speed on how hunting /gathering has evolved into where we're at today.

Don

[covey ridge]

Don

I truly believe what made us different and superior to other primates is the consumption of flesh and especially fat. The hunter gather diet promoted brain growth and the pursuit of food which was often the difference between life and death and that pursuit made us fit. Only the fittest survived. Then along came agriculture which provided more food even for those who were not very fit hunters. We may have exchanged fitness and health for easily obtainable food. The food industry exploded especially with easy to obtain processed foods and sugar and the population exploded.

In the days past, our occupation was staying alive. Now many of us are nintendo geeks and our food is fast and easy. Not really good for our health!

As far as food goes,most of us do not need to hunt and for some they question the need to kill to eat and do not have a clue and do not know that the pursuit of healthy food is our birth right.

I am one that does not need to hunt but I know I would have been better health wise if I would have gathered better food. I can understand people that do not like to kill especially if they can now survive without themselves doing the killing.

I may be able to enlighten some non hunters but the antis are dug in and there is no reasoning. I do not know for sure but I suspect most unknowingly are puppets of the mass food industry. Might be out to lunch here.

For me as long as I am able, I wish to participate a bit in obtaining a portion of my food that respects our origins. I do not expect we will be able to do that forever because our population is exploding and there will be a need for even more land to support those who do not understand any of this.

[CF8889]

For those that are of the "screw anti's. I'll post dead animals all over social media" crowd.... What is so wrong or compromising about publicly posting hunting photos that portray it positively.

Does posting a photo on facebook of your buddy glassing for mule deer, instead of the actual dead animal, take away from the hunt? Does it make the hunt mean less? Are you not still talking about and encouraging hunting? Especially when you can send the photo to your hunting buddies privately that will actually want to see the rack/animal photo. I know when I hunt, it's not to "kill something". It's to be with friends, experience the outdoors, fill my freezer with healthy meat. Holding a dead animal only actually accounts for like %5 of the hunt. I choose to show the other %95 when I am posting photos to the general public. It is very clear I am hunting in these photos. To me, that isn't hiding or giving in. It's just showing different aspects of the hunt.

[Don_Parsons]

^^^ X'S 2

Yes, it is not the best to hide in the dark since hunting is allowed, the only thing that comes to mind is what others that don't hunt might think.

There are alot of people that are not comfortable with the hunting idea little lone the image of dead animals.

It's up to each person that choose hunts or harvests to "hopefully" post it in a "better or wwizer" manner if we want to share this activity for years to come.

Only a suggestion that is.

Don

PS: As Jim mentioned, if 1 species is ban, what species will the anti-hunting community go after next.

Would they do this one species at a time over x amount of years.
A slippery slope indeed.

[LCCFisherman]

Plain and simple. The internet was the beginning of the end of earth... Our consumptions have skyrocketed once information was at our fingertips. How the world has changed in the previous 100 years to the next 100 years will be sad sad sad.

I'm not looking forward to see how it changes in the next 50 years of my life on this earth. Pre WildTV hunting wasn't "cool", now it is and look what has happened. All for a dollar, we've prostituted our country.