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  #31  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:03 PM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
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Setting $250 traps for $75 wolves at NAFTA isn’t a good business venture. I got some custom skinned and paid more for the custom skinning then I got from auction.
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  #32  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by The Spruce View Post
There is a program starting through the ATA and AB GOV, but it only applies to RFMA's in the Caribou areas. Not sure on $ amounts, or details. I am in a caribou area and am not a part of said program....and I spend half my trapping time chasing said ghosts (or at least I did, like others, I am using most of my bait for coyotes now).

Wolf trapping is a precarious thing.

Spruce
Yup there is a program but it is hush hush for now. There is funding but it will depend on how many wolves and how many trappers are involved to divy it all up. I have faith it will be worth my time but I am kinda thinking it won't be. I figured I would give it a go and test the waters. I have Caribou on my line and I have another 2 packs at least I need to think out and a few straglers before I feel the job is done or under control at least.

You guys that laugh at my $2000K per wolf need to go try and bait some and see how it goes.
Maybe ask Popcan how long it took him to shoot one and the rodeo he has gone through. You guys think it is easy and you can just toss some bait out and put a few traps out lol Ya you catch a few that way but to do some real damage you need some serious work! What's your time worth. Equipment? Heck I spent $900 in snare supplies last year alone boys! Hauling trailers and gas. Picking up bait. Skinning and processing hides.
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper View Post
Setting $250 traps for $75 wolves at NAFTA isn’t a good business venture. I got some custom skinned and paid more for the custom skinning then I got from auction.
lol Ya my first one sold for 60$ and I had someone prep the hide for me and it cost me $60. I lost on that deal but was sure glad someone fleshed it for me
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2018, 05:00 PM
nube nube is offline
 
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Dean2 I think that is great you want to help out but there are a lot of issues with it. What areas do your dollars work towards? Is it fair that you live in GP and we use your funds for Southern Alberta? Not everyone will be for that.

I think the whole province doesn't need wolves killed but there are certain areas that really need it.

I like the idea of hitting Sheep areas first.
I would love to belong to a program that let me run around and kill wolves and it was paid for. Problem is that most areas are RFMA and I can't trap them.
If the rules changed and I could and it was worth my time I would ask fish and wildlife to start donation boxes people could drop off scraps. Also have them call the Ledcor's and highway people who pick up roadkill and have them drop it off at a secure location just for the wolf trappers. Then it is a one stop shop and I could pick up truckloads. If I had piles of roadkill and wild meat scraps it would be really helpful.

Also here is a thought which I got pounded on here before for saying but why can't we increase tag prices even as little $5 or so but have that money go towards the wolf killing? Why can't the Cadomin sheep Auction or ministers tag purchase have a percentage to killing wolves? Lots of ways to raise funds to help the cause and it doesn't need people to donate.

I've said it before, this province is mis managed in wildlife practices.
You could earn $100 000K a year very easily and have a bounty of $1000 or more and kill a lot of wolves if a guy knew what he was doing and had some help from Fish and Wildlife and Roadways.....

Spruce also made a comment about beef cows. It sure would be nice to have a farmer call me up when a cow dies and use it for wolves on crown land but you can't anymore. It isn't the best bait to use domestic animals but it does work. I have seen the difference to know but in a pinch it will work.
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2018, 05:02 PM
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CF8889 CF8889 is offline
 
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Nube, I figure it's a lot like talking to people who don't hunt....

"Man, you must save sooo much money not having to buy meat"

"Uh... not when you factor in gear, time, scouting, gas, trips empty handed, splitting the meat with buddies, days off work etc... If anything...that's a damn expensive elk taco you're eating bud!"


I see what you're saying about more of a pain, then helpful, bringing out guys you don't know. I'd still offer my help to any trappers wanting it, but I see it a bit more from your guys side now.

Good luck with the wolves.
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2018, 05:27 PM
slough shark slough shark is offline
 
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It sounds to me the biggest issues with wolf control on the trapping side is 2 things, lack of bait and not worth enough. If there was a couple sites where people could drop off their scraps and bones after I know myself and many of my friends would drop them off and then guys could grab what they needed. As well if there was a bounty fund or something to make it a bit more of an incentive to go for wolves there would be ways of doing that, when there’s a will there’s a way.
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2018, 06:49 PM
highmark highmark is offline
 
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Originally Posted by slough shark View Post
That’s a great idea with the bait donating, I will have bones, trim, hide etc... if any wolf trappers anywhere close to airdrie need them. They would be available in around a week or so after I take butcher the elk
I would be very happy to take any scraps you may have. I run trapline 296 in Kananaskis country and have tons of wolves that I am targeting this year. Anyone who hunts K Country for Sheep, Moose, Elk or deer can benefit from having less wolves around. As a person that spends most of my time in 404,406,408 I can assure you that Ungulates in these areas need our help. And don't trust the information you get from the local Bios, they seem to be very one sided on this situation. In short, if you have meat scraps I would be very happy and appreciative to take it all. Like others have already mentioned, you simply cant get enough bait to keep these critters fed.

Cheers
Eric
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2018, 09:24 PM
Desert Eagle Desert Eagle is online now
 
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I've spent the last few nights pondering and reading these threads. I don't agree with letting the Ata or other association take hunters money and give it to guys targeting wolves. Personally I think it would make more sense for a trapper to list his plan on here and his list of needs prior to the season. This would include supplies needed etc. If a list and prices were put together then people could decide if they are willing to send a donation to the trapper of their choosing, and pick what they are willing to donate their funds towards.

As has been mentioned the costs certainly add up, and there are only a few guys that are committed enough to go at it hard and make a difference.
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2018, 09:55 PM
play.soccer play.soccer is offline
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
Dean2 I think that is great you want to help out but there are a lot of issues with it. What areas do your dollars work towards? Is it fair that you live in GP and we use your funds for Southern Alberta? Not everyone will be for that.

I think the whole province doesn't need wolves killed but there are certain areas that really need it.

I like the idea of hitting Sheep areas first.
I would love to belong to a program that let me run around and kill wolves and it was paid for. Problem is that most areas are RFMA and I can't trap them.
If the rules changed and I could and it was worth my time I would ask fish and wildlife to start donation boxes people could drop off scraps. Also have them call the Ledcor's and highway people who pick up roadkill and have them drop it off at a secure location just for the wolf trappers. Then it is a one stop shop and I could pick up truckloads. If I had piles of roadkill and wild meat scraps it would be really helpful.

Also here is a thought which I got pounded on here before for saying but why can't we increase tag prices even as little $5 or so but have that money go towards the wolf killing? Why can't the Cadomin sheep Auction or ministers tag purchase have a percentage to killing wolves? Lots of ways to raise funds to help the cause and it doesn't need people to donate.

I've said it before, this province is mis managed in wildlife practices.
You could earn $100 000K a year very easily and have a bounty of $1000 or more and kill a lot of wolves if a guy knew what he was doing and had some help from Fish and Wildlife and Roadways.....

Spruce also made a comment about beef cows. It sure would be nice to have a farmer call me up when a cow dies and use it for wolves on crown land but you can't anymore. It isn't the best bait to use domestic animals but it does work. I have seen the difference to know but in a pinch it will work.
$2000/wolf

$100,000/year to trap

Wanting free dead cattle

Anything else you want? Lol use that uranium cash.
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  #40  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:10 AM
nube nube is offline
 
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Originally Posted by play.soccer View Post
$2000/wolf

$100,000/year to trap

Wanting free dead cattle

Anything else you want? Lol use that uranium cash.
I think u miss understood my comment on the $100 K a year. I was saying it would be easy to get $100K a year from a minor increase in the sale of the hunting licenses each year. Also a bit from the ministers tags.....
$100K a year could pay for a lot of dead wolves and do a lot of good.
U comprehend now?

And Dead cattle would be great would it not. It's not worth anything to anyone once its dead right? So explain the issue you have.

And ya Uranium did what I said it would. By summer then sell before spring.
If you would have bought FCU at .50 some cents you would be looking pretty good right now. It should start going down now till summer again ...
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  #41  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:44 AM
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MK2750 MK2750 is offline
 
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I think a small increase in tag prices would be a great idea to cover a bounty program. Have an exemption for seniors, youth and other folks with limited or fixed income.

I also think a nonrefundable increase in the cost for putting in for draws would kill two birds (or wolves) with one stone. Not as many dreamers plugging up the system and certainly no anti-hunters putting in for draws if that is even a real thing.
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  #42  
Old 01-17-2018, 09:53 AM
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Torkdiesel Torkdiesel is offline
 
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This wolf trapping funding is a tough one, nobody wants to pay for anything that doesn’t directly help them.
Read through the threads. If I live up north why would I want that money going to the south ?, if I live in Red Deer why do I care what happens in High Level ?
Why am I going to give you money when I want to try and be a wolf trapper myself, that’s no fun ?
You want to know how truthfully feasible wolf trapping is for a RFMA holder ? It’s not, not even close. If a trapper lives two hours away from his line that’s a $100 tank of fuel in a full size truck, more if further of course. $20-30 in snowmobile fuel minimum. Now let’s say I own all my traps already and I only spend a couple hundred on snares a year. Add to that wear and tear on trucks and sleds and it’s easily $4-5,000 a year.
Now the biggest cost is time for anybody who isn’t retired. Time trapping, time getting bait, time skinning. What’s a trappers time worth ?

Now don’t get me wrong, we trap because we love it and it’s not for the money. But trapping wolves is a lot of work for very little money and overall a big net loss if you target them specifically.

I trap wolves up north because it makes me money having more moose and Caribou. If it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t put in nearly the effort, because it doesn’t directly affect me like I said above.
Trapping to lose money every trip out because wolves aren’t worth anything doesn’t make sense for most trappers, and here lies the major issue I see with it.

As far as the government paying a bounty, good luck unless you can make it unionized lol
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  #43  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:25 AM
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Flatlandliver Flatlandliver is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Torkdiesel View Post
This wolf trapping funding is a tough one, nobody wants to pay for anything that doesn’t directly help them.
Read through the threads. If I live up north why would I want that money going to the south ?, if I live in Red Deer why do I care what happens in High Level ?
Why am I going to give you money when I want to try and be a wolf trapper myself, that’s no fun ?
You want to know how truthfully feasible wolf trapping is for a RFMA holder ? It’s not, not even close. If a trapper lives two hours away from his line that’s a $100 tank of fuel in a full size truck, more if further of course. $20-30 in snowmobile fuel minimum. Now let’s say I own all my traps already and I only spend a couple hundred on snares a year. Add to that wear and tear on trucks and sleds and it’s easily $4-5,000 a year.
Now the biggest cost is time for anybody who isn’t retired. Time trapping, time getting bait, time skinning. What’s a trappers time worth ?


Now don’t get me wrong, we trap because we love it and it’s not for the money. But trapping wolves is a lot of work for very little money and overall a big net loss if you target them specifically.

I trap wolves up north because it makes me money having more moose and Caribou. If it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t put in nearly the effort, because it doesn’t directly affect me like I said above.
Trapping to lose money every trip out because wolves aren’t worth anything doesn’t make sense for most trappers, and here lies the major issue I see with it.

As far as the government paying a bounty, good luck unless you can make it unionized lol
United Trappers of Alberta
Has a nice ring to it.
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  #44  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:29 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Maybe there's no money in the trapping of wolves strictly but are you guys not trapping $175 Martin at the same time? In my mind the expenses for truck and ski doo are already being spent and the trapped wolves are a extra. Do the wolves not eat marten, fisher, lynx out of your sets as well?
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  #45  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Maybe there's no money in the trapping of wolves strictly but are you guys not trapping $175 Martin at the same time? In my mind the expenses for truck and ski doo are already being spent and the trapped wolves are a extra. Do the wolves not eat marten, fisher, lynx out of your sets as well?
I haven’t seen $175 martin in some time, but yes I trap everything while out there. If the marten and lynx pay for my fuel I’m happy. The wolves are always a loss and take up by far the most time.
Setting a Marten box up or a trail set snare for Lynx is a 5 minute ordeal at most. A wolf bait and snares takes hours per set up.

And although wolves occasionally eat caught animals, it doesn’t happen often
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  #46  
Old 01-17-2018, 10:34 AM
nube nube is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Maybe there's no money in the trapping of wolves strictly but are you guys not trapping $175 Martin at the same time? In my mind the expenses for truck and ski doo are already being spent and the trapped wolves are a extra. Do the wolves not eat marten, fisher, lynx out of your sets as well?
Most marten are worth $50-85....
Half my time or more on my trapline is spent catching wolves. If I spent time catching other things I would be way more ahead!
I have never had a wolf eat anything that I have trapped. I have had them come close to my sets multiple times to look but never eaten anything.
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  #47  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:58 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Guys, wolves also affect our marten numbers as they eat them as well. My thoughts has always been we need a $1000 bill incentive/bounty whatever you want to call it to hit wolves hard. It would be very simple, take the hunter license $$ that ACA is using to compensate farmers for lost cattle and give it to trappers. You will kill two birds with one stone ( less wolves less cattle eaten) and make hunters alot happier that their $800,000 per year is going towards wildlife management. ( 800 less wolves is 10,000 more elk/moose and deer)
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  #48  
Old 01-18-2018, 12:19 PM
StenneS StenneS is offline
 
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Good dialogue here from you guys who actively trap, it's really eye opening when you all break down the costs, resources require as well as the time/effort aspect.

Sounds like no matter how you slice it the trapper's need some further incentive / funding / assistance in this wolf management and trapping situation. Going forward I'll definitely be saving scraps from myself and others to help the situation out. On the government side they seem the not offer a large enough incentive to trap, this could be based on a few different things but it seems as if money management from minister tags, generally purchased tags could be better allocated to something like this; raising the bounty. Also, if the bios aren't screaming and kicking the door down saying this NEEDS to be addressed the government will never fully buy into the program. Look at the Caribou area wolf trapping for instance, it wasn't until bio's raised their voice (even if it was just a little) that something was started. It will be the same unfortunately for other areas, we all know the pressure wolve's put on the ungulate population but until the biologists are kicking down the ministers door the government will be reluctant to step in with any kind of legitimate funding support. Until then though we'll just have to support each other, hunters supporting the trappers however we can and obviously doing our part (predator management) as best we can regardless if does seem like its just ****ing in the wind.
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  #49  
Old 01-18-2018, 08:29 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Interesting discussion. It would be interesting what local trappers have to say about it. By local I mean trappers who live within, say, 30-minute drive to their trap line. I am sure there are quite a few.

In my shed, I still have a carcass from a mule deer (pretty much just bone) and a carcass from a whitetail (meat on ribs, some shot but intact). I also have guts from a mule deer, complete as they come, frozen in a bin, along with the skin and head. Lastly, I have about half a bin of random cut offs and whatnot, also frozen in a bin. If there is a trapper interested in Peace River area, you are welcome to have all of it. I am in town.
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  #50  
Old 01-18-2018, 08:57 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Guys, wolves also affect our marten numbers as they eat them as well. My thoughts has always been we need a $1000 bill incentive/bounty whatever you want to call it to hit wolves hard. It would be very simple, take the hunter license $$ that ACA is using to compensate farmers for lost cattle and give it to trappers. You will kill two birds with one stone ( less wolves less cattle eaten) and make hunters alot happier that their $800,000 per year is going towards wildlife management. ( 800 less wolves is 10,000 more elk/moose and deer)
The problem is that it's not just the wolves. Bears and birds also take their toll on livestock. Something else to think about is what kinda mess will 10000 elk moose and deer make on the cropland and how much will that cost. Gonna figure some of this $800000 might go to crop damage but maybe not?

I do agree at there should be some incentive for predator control but it shouldn't just go to the trappers. I would hope that the farmers/ranchers are shooting wolves on sight. Believe that is why we can shoot wolves all season long within 5 miles of our land. Possibly allowing night predator hunting and allowing landowners to shoot all bears, rather then just the blacks on their land might free up some money.
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  #51  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:33 AM
Brian Bildson Brian Bildson is offline
 
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There have been many wolf cull incentive programs offered by WSF and some municipalities over the last several years that have resulted in increased wolf harvests. I know of one trapper who collected $500 municipal bounty on 32 wolves last season. That's some serious money.

Our Grande Cache local has great support as well, providing wolf snare material to members.

As for baits it's a fallacy that you need large baits to attract wolves. Nube touched on that when he mentioned using his stink pails. My experience has been that unless you have a trapline in an area that has a steady influx of new wolves established bait sites start to lose their efficiency after a few seasons. Surviving Wolves will pass on their reluctance to visit the baits to survivors and new pups.

On my mountain line the wolf packs are smaller and harder to target then my previous foothills trapline, where the wolf density was higher, but I still manage to cull pack members every year.

What works for me is smaller baits and moving them around year to year. A beaver carcass in a pail or a deer hide is all that you need to bring wolves in. If I do use a pail I like to scatter small chunks of bait in a wide circle around the pails to encourage coyotes and fox to come in. Their tracks give wolves confidence to come in.

Another trapper / outfitter buddy uses only moose and elk hides for his hunter setups and 85% get a shot at wolves.

I also find footholds to be very effective but the 48 hour trap check is a PITA.
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  #52  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:46 AM
Brian Bildson Brian Bildson is offline
 
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As for the $400,000 that ACA is FORCED to pay into the predator compensation fund I'd suggest that Alberta hunters should contact their MLA and ask that the compensation program be administered by Alberta agriculture where it belongs.

There is no ceiling on what ACA is forced to pay, as the agreement is tied to actual claims every year. The ACA agreement provides approx. 50% of the payments but in truth pays 100% of claims and then waits for repayment of 50% back from government, which often is a year or more in arrears.

The premise behind this deal structure is that land owners will support wildlife populations on their land if they know they'll be compensated by government for losses. Supposedly leading to more game and access for hunters. Anyone think that's working?

In practice more like access to farmers hunting buddies, not joe public. And most of these claims are on cattle leases which is crown land that is owned by the public. A rancher sticks livestock on what used to be ungulate habitat and then complains that there's predators on it? They should look at that as the cost of doing business on public land that comes at very little cost to them. Take a lot of dead cows to equal what they'd have to pay to put those cows on purchased land.

Lets put this program into the hands of agricultural and use the funds to do more for the WIN card holders of Alberta.
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  #53  
Old 01-23-2018, 03:28 AM
JoshT JoshT is offline
 
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Lots of interesting stuff here! Nube how do you manage your trapline being a few hours from home? Do you just head out every few days as you can? Or take a week off work here and there too spend time out there? And this question goes out to anyone else that lives a few hours from their line.

Bait is definitely one of the biggest issues. It takes a lot of work to be able to load up roadkill moose and haul it out there. We've done it a few times and a quad trailer is almost required. It's a shame butcher scraps can't be used.

I don't have as much experience as some of you others with trapping but it definitely is a bit time commitment! My grandfather's line is north of peace river and I would love to be able to spend 2 months a year out there.

If anyone around Peace River has wild game scraps or carcass's send me a PM. Would be a huge help for setting bait stations on the trapline. Or if you come across road kill and are able to grab it, I'll let you know where to drop it off! Haha
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  #54  
Old 01-23-2018, 09:54 AM
nube nube is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JoshT View Post
Lots of interesting stuff here! Nube how do you manage your trapline being a few hours from home? Do you just head out every few days as you can? Or take a week off work here and there too spend time out there? And this question goes out to anyone else that lives a few hours from their line.

Bait is definitely one of the biggest issues. It takes a lot of work to be able to load up roadkill moose and haul it out there. We've done it a few times and a quad trailer is almost required. It's a shame butcher scraps can't be used.

I don't have as much experience as some of you others with trapping but it definitely is a bit time commitment! My grandfather's line is north of peace river and I would love to be able to spend 2 months a year out there.

If anyone around Peace River has wild game scraps or carcass's send me a PM. Would be a huge help for setting bait stations on the trapline. Or if you come across road kill and are able to grab it, I'll let you know where to drop it off! Haha
If weather is cold I can go a week before checks or more if needs be. Fur will freeze and not have an issue.
When it is warm I go more often or stop trapping.
Hauling bait is an issue for sure.
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