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  #151  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:08 AM
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ADIDAFish ADIDAFish is offline
 
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JustFloatin brings up a good point. Because it will be the only "quality" fishery around, it will be popular. I'll be going more often as well. I don't think it should steer people away from signing the petition though. I think it just points out the fact that there aren't many quality trout fisheries around.

I think it would be shortsighted to not support this movement even if it does get busier up there. If it does bring more families, casual fishermen, and experience fishermen to the area, F & W will take notice and perhaps create another quality fishery nearby. If we have enough of them around, then UKL and LKL will go back to their fairly well used current status instead of being overcrowded.

Sundancefisher, I have a question for you. What other lakes around could you see this working? Obviously the body of water has to be able to overwinter with limited to no winterkill and would be able to grow the fish. On a side not, I always wondered why Chain lakes doesn't seem to be able to grow the fish there. I have only been there a few times but I have only caught little guys and only seen little guys. Is there just not enough food there for them? Also, thanks for all of the thoughtful, fact based posts.
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  #152  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jts1 View Post
I think there should be more lakes that require a fee to enter.


Then you would love Europe. Plenty of fees and licences to hunt and fish on small bits of private land, if you have the cash. Little to no free public land to mess up the system.
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  #153  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jusfloatin View Post
Sundancefisher I truly believe that your intended stewardship in this matter is true blue and I applaud you for that.
I also understand that by these regulation changes it would undoubtedly entice more to fish the upper K. simply for the reasons you posted.

With any change there will always be the plus and minus effect, simply by raising the catch size we have affected more than just the fish but what they eat and how much and what size of food they eat. Correct me if I am wrong but even bugs will be affected by this action.
Our attempts at manipulating the system has show in the past to be a hit and miss draw.
Bulls head worked ( I don't know as I have never fished it ) which is great but I am sure it has it problems because of that change.
The upper K is a lot more sensitive to change where damaged caused could take 20 years to recuperate.

I was fortunate to fish the upper K at least 2 dozen times this past summer, in those times I hate to admit it but I was skunked a couple times, other days it was just smallies and then there were a couple of days you only dream of. To me that is fishing, the chance of a big one when buddy next to me hooks a smallie.
If all of those days were to be just big fish days I believe I would grow somewhat tired of that. The chase is a big part of the fun.
If your concerns are leaning more to the fight of the fish go to a lighter rod. Everyone has caught a small fish that made you think you have a whopper on the line only to see you just have a little one that is not about to give up for anything.

These few things will be the immediately affect by those changes.
1 line up to off load and load the boat.
2 parking issues
3 the litter
4 traffic
5 dirty water ( being used as a urinal, 2 stroke motors )
I could go on but I am sure you get my point.

I am sorry but I have no interest in seeing those changes, I fish the upper K for more reasons than the just the fish.
The drive up, the scenery while I fish, the color of the water, the fresh smell of clean air, the low amount of people, the anticipation of a big catch amongst the small unwanted catches by some.

Some have said it is paradise up there and I agree, would you be able to say after these changes.
At this moment I know what I have and I am not prepared to risk it.

For those that have not signed this petition as of yet all I ask of you is that you ask yourself to consider all plus and minus's associated with these proposed changes.

Yes I am being selfish for wanting to keep it as it is.
I said it in a post earlier that I can not disagree with the only negative to these changes and that is with better fishing you will bring an increasing number of visitors.

That being said...these visitors will be additional fishing visitors...and likely will not affect hiking etc. Litter problems will not increase significantly as seen at Bullshead (every time I went there it was clean as fishermen respect the land and water extremely high). With more anglers you have more stewardship and more respect and appreciation for the resource. Actually I pick up more garbage along hiking trails than fishing places. The only significant issue will be for you seeing more happy anglers on the lake where once you saw few if any fishing. That is the only price to pay with success.

You comment about affecting the lake upon reflection is incorrect IMHO. Understanding these lakes are already stocked...have been stocked in the past...once had native cutthroat and bulltrout in them...are extensively impacted by the dams to me puts this concern of yours as non existent. In fact additional fishing activity will likely be the additional pressure needed to pursuade the powers that be to mitigate the water fluctuations more and actually improve the lakes biota.

As for fish sizes...I love catching anything verusus nothing and just love fishing. That being said if I fished once or twice a year...catching 8 inch stocked rainbows may of sufficed. BUT...if there were 20 inch rainbows to be caught along with plenty of 12-19 inch ones to catch...then...WOW...I would of fished more than twice. Downsizing your gear is all fine but still...small trout are no challenge compared to 20 inchers. I saw this principle on our perch problem in Lake Sundance. When the perch maxed out at 6 inches...few people wanted to fish for them more than once or twice a year if that. Now that we are seeing plenty of perch in the 8-10 inch category...the numbers of anglers is increasing. If they were 12-14 inches long...you bet interest would be even greater.

While I understand you are happy with 8-12 inch rainbows...I believe the majority of the population wants better fishing. So being fair to all users...you will still get your fish and smaller ones to catch for your enjoyment...larger ones for the rest of us...and nice reasonably sized 20 inchers for people to harvest if they so chose.

As for these specific concerns...

1 line up to off load and load the boat. Most people will either fish from shore or in pontoon/belly boats versus boat launching. There is tons of shore line to fish from...loads of room to give everyone space...I have only ever fished it from shore or in my belly boat and had a great scenic day...albiet with not a lot of fish. That will soon change!

2 parking issues There are lots of access points and lots of parking. Parking has never been a problem here. Chances are the available parking will finally get used.

3 the litter With more fishermen around...more hikers and picicker's litter will get picked up. More traffic will mean better servicing by parks and probably better patrolling!

4 traffic Fishermen will drive in first thing and leave at dusk. Therefore not a lot of additional traffic. Plus we are not talking about thousands of people a day so you have to be careful not to exaggerate this a being a problem. Traffic will also be dispersed to the various access points. Increased fishermen will watch the water for pollution and also poaching.

5 dirty water ( being used as a urinal, 2 stroke motors ) Not sure what the motor law is. I don't know many guys that would urinate out on the water in a tube. They mostly go to shore. I would say the reems of hikers probably add more urine that the occasional fisherman. Understanding also that there are reservoirs that flush lot of water out each year...I would not be concerned about the very low potential of build up. And actually...a little more nitrogen would help the bugs you are worried about. :-)

So in the end you said you like there being no one else but you fishing...you get skunked but still you wanted better fishing at times that you drove to Bullshead and loved it. Calgary and region has no quality fishery nearby and you don't want to vote to have one. While I can not understand your logic...I would recommend that if you want to fish in a reservoir near Calgary that has a nice view and few fish and even fewer users to consider switching to Barrier Lake and help make UKL and LKL a fishery to be proud of.

Cheers

Sun

Last edited by Sundancefisher; 01-06-2011 at 09:52 AM.
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  #154  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ADIDAFish View Post
Sundancefisher, I have a question for you. What other lakes around could you see this working? Obviously the body of water has to be able to overwinter with limited to no winterkill and would be able to grow the fish. On a side not, I always wondered why Chain lakes doesn't seem to be able to grow the fish there. I have only been there a few times but I have only caught little guys and only seen little guys. Is there just not enough food there for them? Also, thanks for all of the thoughtful, fact based posts.
I can not think of any other bodies of water near Calgary that makes sense. Smaller lakes could work technically but are way to small to handle the fishing pressure. A lake like Hector while smallish would be very intriguing...but it is private. Unfortunately for us...we have very, very few trout lakes of any significance or any lakes at all for that matter close to Calgary. I would think that without UKL and LKL we would be stuck not having any quality fish within a reasonable distance of Calgary.

Chain Lakes is stocked very high which I suspect impacts their growth. It has shoreline accessibiliy issues. It is also a very successful small trout fishery...way higher catch rates than UKL or LKL has ever had. I suspect changing it would receive a significant back lash. Maybe if those complaining changed their minds after seeing success elsewhere...they themselves would need to lead that charge. Issues like this takes a lot of personal time and patience and frankly it beats you down emotionally. That is why we have to support those that are championing it. That is why I am supporting these fine folks.

Sun
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  #155  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:53 AM
jusfloatin jusfloatin is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I said it in a post earlier that I can not disagree with the only negative to these changes and that is with better fishing you will bring an increasing number of visitors.

That being said...these visitors will be additional fishing visitors...and likely will not affect hiking etc. Litter problems will not increase significantly as seen at Bullshead (every time I went there it was clean as fishermen respect the land and water extremely high). With more anglers you have more stewardship and more respect and appreciation for the resource. Actually I pick up more garbage along hiking trails than fishing places. The only significant issue will be for you seeing more happy anglers on the lake where once you saw few if any fishing. That is the only price to pay with success.

You comment about affecting the lake upon reflection is incorrect IMHO. Understanding these lakes are already stocked...have been stocked in the past...once had native cutthroat and bulltrout in them...are extensively impacted by the dams to me puts this concern of yours as non existent. In fact additional fishing activity will likely be the additional pressure needed to pursuade the powers that be to mitigate the water fluctuations more and actually improve the lakes biota.

As for fish sizes...I love catching anything verusus nothing and just love fishing. That being said if I fished once or twice a year...catching 8 inch stocked rainbows may of sufficed. BUT...if there were 20 inch rainbows to be caught along with plenty of 12-19 inch ones to catch...then...WOW...I would of fished more than twice. Downsizing your gear is all fine but still...small trout are no challenge compared to 20 inchers. I saw this principle on our perch problem in Lake Sundance. When the perch maxed out at 6 inches...few people wanted to fish for them more than once or twice a year if that. Now that we are seeing plenty of perch in the 8-10 inch category...the numbers of anglers is increasing. If they were 12-14 inches long...you bet interest would be even greater.

While I understand you are happy with 8-12 inch rainbows...I believe the majority of the population wants better fishing. So being fair to all users...you will still get your fish and smaller ones to catch for your enjoyment...larger ones for the rest of us...and nice reasonably sized 20 inchers for people to harvest if they so chose.

As for these specific concerns...

1 line up to off load and load the boat. Most people will either fish from shore or in pontoon/belly boats versus boat launching. There is tons of shore line to fish from...loads of room to give everyone space...I have only ever fished it from shore or in my belly boat and had a great scenic day...albiet with not a lot of fish. That will soon change!

2 parking issues There are lots of access points and lots of parking. Parking has never been a problem here. Chances are the available parking will finally get used.

3 the litter With more fishermen around...more hikers and picicker's litter will get picked up. More traffic will mean better servicing by parks and probably better patrolling!

4 traffic Fishermen will drive in first thing and leave at dusk. Therefore not a lot of additional traffic. Plus we are not talking about thousands of people a day so you have to be careful not to exaggerate this a being a problem. Traffic will also be dispersed to the various access points. Increased fishermen will watch the water for pollution and also poaching.

5 dirty water ( being used as a urinal, 2 stroke motors ) Not sure what the motor law is. I don't know many guys that would urinate out on the water in a tube. They mostly go to shore. I would say the reems of hikers probably add more urine that the occasional fisherman. Understanding also that there are reservoirs that flush lot of water out each year...I would not be concerned about the very low potential of build up. And actually...a little more nitrogen would help the bugs you are worried about. :-)

So in the end you said you like there being no one else but you fishing...you get skunked but still you wanted better fishing at times that you drove to Bullshead and loved it. Calgary and region has no quality fishery nearby and you don't want to vote to have one. While I can not understand your logic...I would recommend that if you want to fish in a reservoir near Calgary that has a nice view and few fish and even fewer users to consider switching to Barrier Lake and help make UKL and LKL a fishery to be proud of.

Cheers

Sun
Sundancer you are miss quoting me

Where do I say this " So in the end you said you like there being no one else but you fishing "

Where do I say this " you get skunked but still you wanted better fishing at times that you drove to Bullshead and loved it " I have never fished Bullshead

As for your comment to
#1 you mean there won't be an increase of boats because of this change?
#2 parking will defiantly be affected you are talking about a " quality fishery" are you not, people will be coming from much greater difference dragging more than just belly boats
#3 to state that there would be less litter because more people will pickup the liter is not true.
#4 various access points?
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  #156  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:18 AM
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Seeing the effect this has had on Bullshead Reservoir,I do not know anybody who has fished it since that would rather it go back to general regulations.
Simply put a lot of people want quality fisheries and are willing to go home with a smile rather than a fish....
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  #157  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:22 AM
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Sundancer you are miss quoting me

Where do I say this " So in the end you said you like there being no one else but you fishing "

Where do I say this " you get skunked but still you wanted better fishing at times that you drove to Bullshead and loved it " I have never fished Bullshead

As for your comment to
#1 you mean there won't be an increase of boats because of this change?
#2 parking will defiantly be affected you are talking about a " quality fishery" are you not, people will be coming from much greater difference dragging more than just belly boats
#3 to state that there would be less litter because more people will pickup the liter is not true.
#4 various access points?
Sorry...maybe I read into your comments more than necessary.

You stated you liked "...the low amount of people" To me your saying you like the lack of people. You like serenity which will be disturbed by increasing the number of fishermen. I can relate and understand and agree that will certainly change.

You stated you were skunked...but I see you caught lots other day...so my fault...I misread that. Yes...I admit upon review I unintentionally misquoted this. I apologize.

I don't think there will be a ton more boats. But there are huge lakes with almost no boats now. There is lots of room to share. You say the fishing is great now. How many boats use it? What is the standard current fishing method you see? Shore, boat...belly boat/pontoon? On a percentage basis it should stay that way. Out of 20 people I saw fishing there one weekend. three were sharing a boat...3 in tubes...all the rest were from shore. If it is a wonderful place to fish now...yet you say the fishing will improve greatly and attract a ton more people to create these problems..so we should not fix it is a cop out. I think we should address concerns like yours in the plan and mitigate it while improving the fishery. To me that is the smart approach rather than continue to let a fishery stagnate.

There is lots of parking that is rarely if ever all used up. I have not seen it any time I visited there. Yes...there may be times where it is busy...but hey...the tax payers built and paid for it...it would be nice to see it used for once.

Fishermen are great at picking up litter. So I firmly believe there is no increase just from fishermen. While some people are slobs...so are some people great custodians. I hear time and time again about fishermen picking up after others. I take a bad with me hiking and fishing and generally garbage I pick up is from hikers and mountain bikers and quadders.

Various access points...there are multiple spots to access LKL. There is great shoreline access around UKL. Better than most lakes of similar size in the province. The easy access is what helps make this ideas make sense.

In the end...the impression I still get is that you are mainly worried about crowding. Please let me know if I am misunderstanding you. I think more people is expected but at Bullhead where tons more showed up...I still had tons of room to fish. Everyone was very, very happy. Your fishing success will probably stay the same or improve as expected.

Last edited by Sundancefisher; 01-06-2011 at 10:31 AM.
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  #158  
Old 01-06-2011, 12:29 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Then you would love Europe. Plenty of fees and licences to hunt and fish on small bits of private land, if you have the cash. Little to no free public land to mess up the system.
x2 I lived in Germany for 5 years where only the rich can afford to hunt. The cost of fishing the local stocked gravel pit is affordable but you still have to pay a fee to fish it. That is above and beyond the cost of your fishing license.

Be careful of what you wish for public bodies of water in Alberta.
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  #159  
Old 01-06-2011, 01:08 PM
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x2 I lived in Germany for 5 years where only the rich can afford to hunt. The cost of fishing the local stocked gravel pit is affordable but you still have to pay a fee to fish it. That is above and beyond the cost of your fishing license.

Be careful of what you wish for public bodies of water in Alberta.
It cost me $40 A FREAKING DAY to fish ONE river when I was in Finland and locals get NO break on that cost. I hope we never get to that situation. However, they have a reverse situation compared to Alberta, very few fishable rivers and millions of lakes (thus barely regulated and almost much free for all).
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  #160  
Old 01-06-2011, 02:56 PM
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Then you would love Europe. Plenty of fees and licences to hunt and fish on small bits of private land, if you have the cash. Little to no free public land to mess up the system.
Sidetrack...

I would fight that pay model tooth and nail. I hate the $20 a day we Albertans have to pay in BC. I have heard no one complain of that fact in BC for a while. We should charge BC guides and residents to fish the Crow, Livingstone, Oldman, Bow and also extra fees to shoot big game and birds. Free gopher hunting though.

Now the ocean going fish that are Federally owned are also going to cost Albertans huge extra money to fish plus restrictions on which days we can fish.

Just give me UKL and LKL with a pile of trout to catch ranging in size from 12 inches to 30 inches and I will be happy to pay my fishing license fees.

237 signatures to date... probably all from AOF!

Great going TEAM AOF... WE KICK BUTT! F&W beware...the monster fish is awakened!
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  #161  
Old 01-06-2011, 03:36 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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237 signatures to date... probably all from AOF!

Great going TEAM AOF... WE KICK BUTT! F&W beware...the monster fish is awakened!
Just a thought...........Why not start a poll to see how many people support, oppose or don't care about the proposed new regulation?

You've had over 3,500 hits on this thread and only a dozen different posters. What are the silent majority thinking?
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  #162  
Old 01-06-2011, 03:42 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Just a thought...........Why not start a poll to see how many people support, oppose or don't care about the proposed new regulation?

You've had over 3,500 hits on this thread and only a dozen different posters. What are the silent majority thinking?
Further to my last..........It would probably be better to present a simple question in the poll as unbiased as possible such as "Would you support a new regulation increasing the catch size in Upper Kan Lake?" (Yes, No or Don't Care) or words to that effect and direct people to this thread for more info on the topic.
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  #163  
Old 01-06-2011, 03:49 PM
jusfloatin jusfloatin is offline
 
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Just a thought...........Why not start a poll to see how many people support, oppose or don't care about the proposed new regulation?

You've had over 3,500 hits on this thread and only a dozen different posters. What are the silent majority thinking?
I like that idea.
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  #164  
Old 01-06-2011, 03:49 PM
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Just a thought...........Why not start a poll to see how many people support, oppose or don't care about the proposed new regulation?

You've had over 3,500 hits on this thread and only a dozen different posters. What are the silent majority thinking?
I suspect...many are slow to take up a cause. Others live far away and don't feel it is warranted for them to sign. Still if someone wanted to fix a lake near Fox Creek or Cold Lake I would be more than happy to put my support behind it.

There are a lot of members on this board. How many are duplicates we can't say. How many look only occasionally hard to know. How many ever post...maybe a Mod could say. How many on the board really care about fishing...maybe more hunters here. How many post often...from what I gather...a minority. Very interesting social dynamics on any board. Who knows...maybe a lot are just watching...reading and thinking about. We seem to get a few every day...maybe those that look only every so often like what they see then sign up. Of all the views...are they all different users? I am not sure how this board assigns a number to that feature.

Anyways...a poll would be redundant...people will think about it over time and either sign or not sign. Maybe all those that have fished Bullshead signed right away and others just don't understand all the benefits to be obtained by the new proposed regulations.

I also read once that for every 1 person that takes the time to sign a petition to reflect their agreement...10 - 20 don't sign because of apathy...but still believe. Based upon that...237 signatures...could mean over 2370...

Cheers

Sun
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  #165  
Old 01-06-2011, 04:07 PM
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Who wants to bet that after the new size limits go into effect, the next thing that will be banned is icefishing on the lakes. Just like all the other "trophy" lakes.
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  #166  
Old 01-06-2011, 04:34 PM
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Who wants to bet that after the new size limits go into effect, the next thing that will be banned is icefishing on the lakes. Just like all the other "trophy" lakes.
I would... How much do you want to bet? These are large lakes with existing ice fishing. There are no plans now or in the future for such a regulation. Plus this is not a trophy lake and no different than the existing regs except the minimum size is 20 inches in a lake that grows them to 30 inches and from 3 fish down to 1 since the weight of one will equal 3-6 smaller ones. People now wait for fish to be 12 inches before harvest...no one who is against the new regulation is complaining about the fishing now but rather fighting against allowing mother nature to grow them a bit bigger before harvest. A delayed harvest is just a delay. Plus that only means you are delayed harvesting the small ones today. The small ones stocked 4 years ago that have grown bigger and are 20 inches long can be harvested today. Simple and efficient use of your tax payers dollars.

The benefit is in a quality fishery...there are fish for everyone...all year. I would not support an ice fishing closure. Paranoia does nothing but halt benefical progress IMHO. Still..contact F&W and ask them...if such a regulation was introduces as per the petition...would they ever consider a fishing ban over winter...

Now the reason I would bet...is cause...in all honesty...I personally asked before I signed...they said no. :-)

Thanks

Sun
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  #167  
Old 01-06-2011, 04:38 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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I like that idea.
I thought that it was a good idea too so I went ahead and did it.
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  #168  
Old 01-06-2011, 05:27 PM
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Re the number of ppl that have visited the thread. I happen to be one intersted individual that visits this thread everytime there are new posts, have been from day one. Average of 2-3 visits per day to read what is being said, so prob about 60+ visits. Its not that I have nothing to say but I agree with the petition and all the comments that sundance has made. He's explained everything very thouroughly and has never let this thread turn into a gong show unlike many other threads on this forum. Bravo!!
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  #169  
Old 01-06-2011, 06:33 PM
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I think I'd be for this.

I'd be more for it if the proposed changes were on a waterbody anywhere NEAR me though, it'd be a heck of a busy day-trip driving down to Calgary for some troutfishing.

I have personally noticed the instant stock depletion that comes with the more liberal trout-pond regulations. So far, this has amounted to me not seeing a stocked trout on my line in about *thinks* 18 years. Very rarely am I the first one out after stocking.

Yup. I'm bad at fishing. I was one of those baitfishing kids, out with my dad, with the ONLY intent being to catch dinner. I'll add though, that yes, going to Safeway might have been cheaper than gas money (though gas WAS a whole tonne cheaper back then). But when daddy's blown through the child support money in beer and cigarettes, and he happens to have fishing gear, gasoline and 5 pairs of hands to hold rods, license-free... well, if we didn't catch the stockies, we didn't eat.

It's sad that only now at 24 am I starting to learn how to really fish, and seeing the value in throwing things back.

I DO wish I'd actually SEEN catch and release fishing as a kid.

Having broken a heck of a no-fish streak this past year, I have to say, seeing the first fish I've caught in a decade swim off back to his home was a good feeling. Nearly as good as the adrenalin rush I got having him on the line.

Now, the sad truth is I'm still a terrible fisher. But I'm slowly teaching myself. And I'd love to have more ponds where the trout aren't fished out right away, so I can learn. I want a place where I can test out my new fly rod, (hooking myself in the process, more often than not), and watch the fish scorn my woeful presentation. I want a place where I can learn how to jig things so that they look like they might be alive, and what exactly a good retrieve speed is for a spinner. I don't care if the trout aren't stupid and take work to catch. It's if there is no fish at all that's really frustrating.
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  #170  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:06 PM
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I think I'd be for this.

I'd be more for it if the proposed changes were on a waterbody anywhere NEAR me though, it'd be a heck of a busy day-trip driving down to Calgary for some troutfishing.

I have personally noticed the instant stock depletion that comes with the more liberal trout-pond regulations. So far, this has amounted to me not seeing a stocked trout on my line in about *thinks* 18 years. Very rarely am I the first one out after stocking.

Yup. I'm bad at fishing. I was one of those baitfishing kids, out with my dad, with the ONLY intent being to catch dinner. I'll add though, that yes, going to Safeway might have been cheaper than gas money (though gas WAS a whole tonne cheaper back then). But when daddy's blown through the child support money in beer and cigarettes, and he happens to have fishing gear, gasoline and 5 pairs of hands to hold rods, license-free... well, if we didn't catch the stockies, we didn't eat.

It's sad that only now at 24 am I starting to learn how to really fish, and seeing the value in throwing things back.

I DO wish I'd actually SEEN catch and release fishing as a kid.

Having broken a heck of a no-fish streak this past year, I have to say, seeing the first fish I've caught in a decade swim off back to his home was a good feeling. Nearly as good as the adrenalin rush I got having him on the line.

Now, the sad truth is I'm still a terrible fisher. But I'm slowly teaching myself. And I'd love to have more ponds where the trout aren't fished out right away, so I can learn. I want a place where I can test out my new fly rod, (hooking myself in the process, more often than not), and watch the fish scorn my woeful presentation. I want a place where I can learn how to jig things so that they look like they might be alive, and what exactly a good retrieve speed is for a spinner. I don't care if the trout aren't stupid and take work to catch. It's if there is no fish at all that's really frustrating.
I hear ya. There is a series of steps progressing through the fishing spectrum that most people seem to take. The learning how to catch fish...well that can be frustrating for sure but is really helps fishing for trout in a lake that has lots left.

Practice definitely makes perfect...but still we all have the bad days... Often the skill is evident in how many you can catch on the good days and limiting the skunked days.

Keep on plugging away and especially latch on to what others are doing around you. Ask questions, imitate and above all...constantly try new things.

Cheers

Sun
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  #171  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:25 PM
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Andrzej Andrzej is offline
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I respect your comments but the facts show fishing catch rates actually improved. Your kids actually catch more trout per day than they did in the 1980's under the new regulations.

The protection of the bull trout has dramatically reduced the sucker population that actually competes with the trout for food.

By your comments...the change to 12 inch rainbows is tantamount to a trophy fishery compares to the lack of any size limit in the past. Calling a 20 inch rainbow a trophy in a lake that grows 30 inch rainbows does not spell out the facts but instead shows you have not necessarily read all the information posted so far.

Plus the new regulations are actually designed to benefit everyone and not be biased to any group. It just makes sense to let mother nature grow the trout rather than eat a small trout stocked 2 days earlier and still full of trout pellets.

If you truly believe your post...you should then demand these regulations as it improves everything you are wanting in a fishery for your kids and future kids.


Link to the petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/dekkbeed/petition.html


A signature from you is a commitment to want to create a better fishery for all kids and adults alike.
Sundancefisher

I don't remember 80's on Upper Lakes as I am Albertan since 1999 and when I first discovered Upper Lake shores of this lake were full of families catching fish and enjoying extraordinary environment.
After bait ban those shorelines became abandoned, empty.... sad.
Once you introduce bait ban on any body of water how do you expect 3 years old to catch fish ? casting flies, casting spinners??? they will not be there.
This decision itself killed this place as a family fishing destination.
After bull trout was reintroduced to UKL lake was not stocked with rainbows any more.
After multiple fishless, baitless trips for couple of years after those changes were put in place I gave up on fishing there.
BTW every time after fishing I filled fishing report cards present at boat lunch and my report would be like this ;fished 6 hrs 0 fish, 0 baits.

I've met some passionate people lately loaded with info about potential of UKL.
For me seeing child catching his first 6 cm fish is more important that old f.rt catching 30 inch rainbow.

I respect your conviction for the cause and do not pretend to know how fisheries should be run, those are my thoughts.

Cheers Andrew
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  #172  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:34 PM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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One of the good things about Cutthroats being stocked today in Kananaskis is that they are much easier to catch than rainbows. I think a lot of kids will be able to catch them on their spinning rods with a fly suspended under or adjacent a bobber. I know that is how I learned to fish. There was many times my friends and I would just use a small piece of drift wood for a float and to add distance to our casts.
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  #173  
Old 01-07-2011, 04:38 AM
GaryF GaryF is offline
 
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Another thing I have noticed in this thread is that everyone seems to be hung up on the 20" size. This is just the HARVESTING size, not the catching size. You would be able to keep anything over 20" the rest would go back. You will still be catching smaller fish, just not keeping them.
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  #174  
Old 01-07-2011, 08:55 AM
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spinerfisher spinerfisher is offline
 
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Sundancefisher

I don't remember 80's on Upper Lakes as I am Albertan since 1999 and when I first discovered Upper Lake shores of this lake were full of families catching fish and enjoying extraordinary environment.
After bait ban those shorelines became abandoned, empty.... sad.
Once you introduce bait ban on any body of water how do you expect 3 years old to catch fish ? casting flies, casting spinners??? they will not be there.
This decision itself killed this place as a family fishing destination.
After bull trout was reintroduced to UKL lake was not stocked with rainbows any more.
After multiple fishless, baitless trips for couple of years after those changes were put in place I gave up on fishing there.
BTW every time after fishing I filled fishing report cards present at boat lunch and my report would be like this ;fished 6 hrs 0 fish, 0 baits.

I've met some passionate people lately loaded with info about potential of UKL.
For me seeing child catching his first 6 cm fish is more important that old f.rt catching 30 inch rainbow.

I respect your conviction for the cause and do not pretend to know how fisheries should be run, those are my thoughts.

Cheers Andrew


Would you stop using kids as an excuse everytime
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  #175  
Old 01-07-2011, 10:36 AM
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Bigtoad Bigtoad is offline
 
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Last fall I was catching whitefish off of a small private dock on Sylvan lake in about 2' of water with my flyrod. I went and got my friend's 3 year old son who loves fishing to come out with me. I would cast and then hand the rod to him. The fish would hit, he would set and he would reel in the fish. We both had a blast.

Did he care if he was using bait? Nope. Did he care that he wasn't casting? Not really. He was just having fun. Oh, and we threw them all back after each of us gave it a big sloppy kiss, by the way.

You don't need to use bait to catch fish with kids. You don't need to keep fish to keep kids interested. The proposed changes to these lakes can only help the fishery and those (everyone, not just the stuck-up flyfishermen like myself that like to catch big fish) that use it.

Cheers.
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  #176  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:03 AM
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Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bigtoad View Post
Last fall I was catching whitefish off of a small private dock on Sylvan lake in about 2' of water with my flyrod. I went and got my friend's 3 year old son who loves fishing to come out with me. I would cast and then hand the rod to him. The fish would hit, he would set and he would reel in the fish. We both had a blast.

Did he care if he was using bait? Nope. Did he care that he wasn't casting? Not really. He was just having fun. Oh, and we threw them all back after each of us gave it a big sloppy kiss, by the way.

You don't need to use bait to catch fish with kids. You don't need to keep fish to keep kids interested. The proposed changes to these lakes can only help the fishery and those (everyone, not just the stuck-up flyfishermen like myself that like to catch big fish) that use it.

Cheers.
Kids and adults a like that used to bait fish at Bullshead switched to bobber and a fly...and surprisingly enough I have seen them do better than just straight flyfishermen. The big bonus for these guys is less cost...no more bait to buy...less garbage to haul around in bait containers etc.

I often set my kids up with a bobber and a fly and they have a blast. You have to hold your rod to set the hook when the bobber goes under but the bonus is you don't have a trout sucking the hook into its stomach making release impossible if you were so inclined.

We also have to note that with the no bait restriction put in place at UKL showed a 7 times increase in the catch rates when compared to a creel survey done when bait was allowed. Bait is really no excuse as to catching or not catching trout. There is an old saying that 5% of the fishermen catch 95% of the fish. At Bullshead I saw most people catching trout...but the 5% folks could just catch tons more. Therefore with practice...everyone does well when you have fish to catch and practice on.

Cheers

Sun
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  #177  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:25 AM
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Andrzej Andrzej is offline
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Originally Posted by spinerfisher View Post
Would you stop using kids as an excuse everytime
Excuse for what???

Maybe I really care about introduction of kids to fishing experience ?

Have a look at my avatar picture. Do you see lake there ? This is my lake and I am holder of aquaculture licence and my stocking program started in 2009 and will continue.

There is a lots of little kids already that caught their first fish in there. Couple of them from Switzerland... You should see their happy faces...

I was unhappy that someone decided to stop put and take at UKL due to the fact that lower lake was already trophy lake for lake trout and for C&R crowd.
Yes I would like to see UKL reversed to put and take for the enjoyment of visitors.

Andrew
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  #178  
Old 01-07-2011, 12:06 PM
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Bigtoad Bigtoad is offline
 
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Here you go Andrew. If you don't want kids to catch more fish and bigger fish at the K lakes because of stricter regs, then here are some options in the Calgary region for you:

AIRDRIE POND (1-27-1-W5)
ALLEN BILL POND (30-22-5-W5)
ALLISON LAKE (27-8-5-W5)
ALLISON LAKE (27-8-5-W5)
BATHING LAKE (11-4-1-W5)
BEAUVAIS LAKE (29-5-1-W5)
BEAVER MINES LAKE (11-5-3-W5)
BULLER POND (20-22-10-W5)
BURMIS LAKE (14-7-3-W5)
BURN'S RESERVOIR (26-6-30-W4)
CHAIN LAKES RESERVOIR (4-15-2-W5)
COLEMAN FISH AND GAME POND (24-8-5-W5)
COTTONWOOD LAKE (16-7-29-W4)
CROSSFIELD TROUT POND (27-28-1-W5)
CROWSNEST LAKE (8-8-5-W5)
DEWITT'S POND (31-26-1-W5)
GRANUM POND (31-10-26-W4)
GROTTO MOUNTAIN POND (21-24-9-W5)
LEES LAKE (8-7-2-W5)
LOWER CHAMPION LAKE (26-21-5-W5)
MARGARET LAKE (15-28-9-W5)
MCLEAN POND (20-22-5-W5)
MOUNT LORETTE PONDS (19-23-8-W5)
PAYNE LAKE (MAMI LAKE) (10-2-28-W4)
SIBBALD LAKE (14-24-7-W5)
SIBBALD MEADOWS POND (20-24-7-W5)
SPARROW'S EGG LAKE (6-20-8-W5)
UPPER CHAMPION LAKE (26-21-5-W5)
UPPER KANANASKIS LAKE (23-19-9-W5)

Or, drive an hour or two North:

ALFORD LAKE (4-36-8-W5)
BEAVER LAKE (16-35-6-W5)
BIRCH LAKE (18-35-6-W5)
BRAZEAU BORROW PIT #1 (32-45-10-W5)
CAMP 9 TROUT POND (32-44-8-W5)
DICKSON TROUT POND (13-35-3-W5)
ELK CREEK POND (33-35-12-W5)
FIESTA LAKE (12-35-6-W5)
GOLDEYE LAKE (14-40-16-W5)
HARLECK POND (5-41-14-W5)
IRONSIDE POND (7-38-7-W5)
MITCHELL LAKE (25-37-8-W5)
NORDEGG BORROW PIT (EAST) (32-40-15-W5)
PEPPERS LAKE (30-35-12-W5)
PHYLLIS LAKE (17-36-7-W5)
RAT LAKE (11-38-9-W5)
ROCKY CHILDREN'S POND (33-39-7-W5)
SHUNDA LAKE (FISH LAKE) (19-40-15-W5)
STRUBEL LAKE (30-37-7-W5)
TAY LAKE (5-36-8-W5)
THUNDER LAKE (4-45-19-W5)
TWIN LAKES (6-40-7-W5)
WINCHELL LAKE (2-29-5-W5)

My point being, there are a ton of places to take kids fishing besides the K lakes (which are still going to be great for kids fishing!) But out of both of these stocking lists, there are only a handful of fisheries that are attempting to achieve a "quality" status. And only a couple have C&R regs and both of those are barely puddles.

Why the resistance to what seems to be such a common sense positive change to a fishery?

Cheers.
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  #179  
Old 01-07-2011, 12:17 PM
75ft Arborist 75ft Arborist is offline
 
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Originally Posted by hunter49 View Post
I'd love to see this regulation brought in. As well as rainbows being stocked again in upper kananaskis. Whoever's bright idea it was to get rid of the rainbows in upper kananaskis and stock bull trout/cutthroat should be smacked around.
X2 and i support the smacking
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  #180  
Old 01-07-2011, 02:05 PM
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Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
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I was unhappy that someone decided to stop put and take at UKL due to the fact that lower lake was already trophy lake for lake trout and for C&R crowd.
Yes I would like to see UKL reversed to put and take for the enjoyment of visitors.

Andrew
There are no Lake Trout in LKL. Never stocked with Lake Trout. They stocked Rainbows a long time ago...now they stock Cutts. Bull Trout is Alberta Provincial fish and an awesome fish to catch. Lots of fun. They are native to these lakes but over fishing almost wiped them out. Through careful conservation and zero catch limits they came back. Some stocking occurred just to help a bit with natural reproduction but it is not a regular event now or in the future. As they are so easy to catch... that over exploitation is still possible hense the current regs. You are not getting many supporting bull trout on this thread as they are secretive of the fun this fishery provides.

UKL and LKL are both currently put and take lakes. Your statement to the contrary is false. Look at the regulations. The future regulations are still 100% put and take. The plan however is for folks such as yourself and show a little patience and let the trout grow for a few years before harvest. It makes little sense to stock a trout and then harvest it tomorrow. The gas alone costs more than buying the fish at the grocery store. Therefore...why not appreciate taking bigger trout and having a great recreational sport fishing experience.

Having patience does not mean you have to wait every year...for once we establish regular stocking programs we will have a constant yearly supply of larger trout to bonk if wanted.

The current regulations are 12 inch...I am not sure how you could possibly call that trophy and catch and release. The improved regulations would be 20 inch. 20 inch rainbow are not trophy sized. These lakes grow fish over 30 inches...over 10 lbs. The only reason 20 inch fish seem monsterous in Alberta is because current regs promote instant harvest. A little patience goes a long ways insofar as letting mother nature grow the trout versus a commercial feed pellet. As catch rates have gone up dramatically...I question you logic as to why things are so bad. Fishing here will go from fair to great with the implemented new regs.

I know it may be hard to think a few years in advance as often we live in the here and now but have patience...growing fish bigger is a really good thing. While they grow...you can still catch them and put em back to grow bigger.

Cheers

Sun
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