Got PAL, need Firearm

[David_Harvey]

I'm from Calgary, and my buds back home assure me that this is the place to go for advice. I now live in the Canadian Arctic and will be soon be hunting caribou and muskox. Next month I'll be back in Calgary for a visit and would love some advice on where to go to buy my first firearm, and which firearm would best suite my hunting plans.

What I need:
- recommendation for a store in Calgary selling firearms and providing quality advice
- recommendation for the type/brand of rifle and scope that will best suite my situation

Specifically, my situation is:
- just got my PAL, hunting license and tags
- I have some experience hunting with friends and target shooting with rifles and shotguns, but am still basically a noob
- will be hunting caribou and muskox in all seasons in the dark and extreme cold of the arctic (with hard core Inuit elders who will save my backside if things get greasy)

My budget is $1000 for the rifle and scope. I am serious enough about this to invest time and money, but I'm not super hard core. What is the "just get a Mac" solution for my situation?

My apologies for committing any common and foolish errors in my first point on this forum. Thank you for your thoughts and time.

[bigbluegulp]

with your budget go to wholesale sports pickup a tikka in .338 and grab a burris fullfield 2 to put on it and you will be hunting like a champ

[David_Harvey]

Great, thanks for the recommendation. Is there a reason why you recommend that particular rifle?

[300wsm3006rem]

I know a lot of people who suggest tikka's.. I have shot one and I really didnt like it over my savage (much lighter.. more recoil) thought im not sure the recoil going from a synthetic -> wood stock on a tikka does for the recoil..

My savage 11/111 trophy hunter i found was shooting a better group than the tikka (i may have been pulling.. im not the best shot in the world)

As for a scope, the aforementioned scope is good, I opted for a Bushnell 4.5-14x44 HD Legend (i found the glass to be the clearest out of everything in the $300 range, plus had the side parallax focus)

my suggestion to you is to go to cabelas/wholesale sports/bass pro and fondle all of the shiny firearms and see what you find FEELS the best in your hands for your price range. As for the game you are going to be hunting, I wouldnt go lower than a 300 win mag or a 300 wby.

[Redneck Renagade]

Savage international trophy hunter 11/111 in 300win mag or 300 wsm. Plenty enough power for what you need. As for the scope. The one that comes on the new pkg is a decent scope but I'd upgrade to a bushnell elite series.

[300wsm3006rem]

Originally Posted by Redneck Renagade

Savage international trophy hunter 11/111 in 300win mag or 300 wsm. Plenty enough power for what you need

exactly what I have, shoots great! just needs a WAY better scope than what comes with it.. that weaver scope isnt good on the higher calibres with longer shots...

[Cal]

I'm partial to Rugers and Winchesters, I've just gotten used to the feel and construction of their rugged actions to the point where alot of other guns sort of feel like a toy. If you want a wood stock go Winchester, if you want stainless then go Ruger, their stainless models cost the same as their blued which is an absolute steal IMO. For calibers I'm partial to the .270 win but anything in the 6.5x55 to the 7mm Mag will do a good job.

I recently bought a pump gun, I know out here in the west there is a stigma about anything non-bolt action but my mind is slowly but surely being changed on that. Wish I'd tryed one BEFORE I filled my gun safe with bolt guns.

[bulletman]

The Tikka T3 is the ticket! I don't know if the .338 is the way to go tho. Recoil will be quite substantial because these rifles are quite light.

[David_Harvey]

Any thoughts on how these rifles and scopes will stand up to -40c temps?

[Fowl91]

If you're coming to Calgary then Wholesale Sports is the place to go. I have Browning and Weatherby Rifles and im a fan of both. The new Stainless Synthetic Vanguard II is quite nice compared to the Tikka T3 IMO. The Tikka seems too light and toy like.
I shoot the trusty 30-06 and love this cartridge, however i have never hunted Caribou or Muskox. Although I am confident it would do the trick.
Maybe stretch you budget a bit and remember after the rifle, scope, and ammunition you may need a sling, scope flip covers, and other accessories.

My budgets are always too low!

Happy Hunting

Fowl

[purgatory.sv]

Savage weather warrior, model:16/116fss 30.06.
Leopold fx-II 4x33 or 6x36.

Or a ruger #1 , but this will exceed your price range, but most come with iron sights.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redneck Renagade

300win mag or 300 wsm. .

Not sure I'd recommend that for a new shooter's first rifle.

[Comstar]

Might help people suggest stuff if they new your past firearms experience, pretty much calibers, and how many shots through a rifle.

For the price you have a few options but buying a cheap savage and a good scope would be better than a expensive gun and a cheap scope.

[just_dave]

What will the distance of your shots be?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Comstar

Might help people suggest stuff if they new your past firearms experience, pretty much calibers, and how many shots through a rifle.

For the price you have a few options but buying a cheap savage and a good scope would be better than a expensive gun and a cheap scope.

I beg to dissagree, I think that there are quality scopes at a low enough price that he could deffinatly get a nicer gun and still scope it for around his budget and end up with a sweet rig. The Weatherby Vangaurd 2 that sombody mentioned with a lower end Bushnell Elite 4200 would be a killer rig.

[300wsm3006rem]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Not sure I'd recommend that for a new shooter's first rifle.

300 win was my first rifle.. whats the big deal?

it doesnt kick THAT much.. give him a 338 win mag in the same rifle.. itll kick way more than the 300 win..

[IR_mike]

Take some time at the gun counter and shoulder and hold a few different makes.

Get what feels best in YOUR hands.

As far as calibre what are your inuit freinds useing?

Also with your location and and Im guessing limited retail outlets 300 uber super newest magnums are useless without ammo.

[t-hunt-3]

From the other side of the gun counter, my advice is to not worry about the brand and the name model but focus on the calibre you want, and the fit of the fire arm, there's tons of different fitting rifles, whether its weight recoil pad balance, it's whatever feels the best when you hold it, some people it's the savage 111 package for about 450 others its a sako 85 for 1800 but realistically browning xbolt, or blrs are very nice firearms as well as the tikka t3s, but my favorite calibre is a 7mm just for ammunition selection, recoils not bad ( some people start too big and become recoil sensitive) the ballistic coeffisiant energy and velocity are also very nice assets aswell

[t-hunt-3]

Originally Posted by 300wsm3006rem

300 win was my first rifle.. whats the big deal?

it doesnt kick THAT much.. give him a 338 win mag in the same rifle.. itll kick way more than the 300 win..

Obviously... Same case heavier grain, every force has an equal and opposite reaction gr 5 physics

[t-hunt-3]

Originally Posted by Cal

I beg to dissagree, I think that there are quality scopes at a low enough price that he could deffinatly get a nicer gun and still scope it for around his budget and end up with a sweet rig. The Weatherby Vangaurd 2 that sombody mentioned with a lower end Bushnell Elite 4200 would be a killer rig.

The basic elite, since 4200 no longer is being produced, will do fine for anything in this country they are tested with375 h&h so they should hold the recoil but from there the price goes up, depending on the glass, the Zeiss conquest for example are now on for 450 in the 3-9x40

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by bigbluegulp

with your budget go to wholesale sports pickup a tikka in .338 and grab a burris fullfield 2 to put on it and you will be hunting like a champ

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...85#post1623485

hint.. hint... limbsaver pad hint... amazing... hint...

[New Hunter Okotoks]

For Musk Ox and Caribou, I would think that a Weatherby Vanguard/ Bushnell 4200 like somebody else posted would be perfect. For Calibre, I would go with a 300 Win. Mag. You will have enough gun to kill both these animals and Ammo is readily available for it in various bullets and weights.

[David_Harvey]

This is very useful, thanks everyone. I have been googling the rifles mentioned and getting a good starting point for comparison.

I'm embarrassed to say that I don't have much experience with rifles beyond firing a .22. The key for me is not too much kick, light and easy to carry for long hunting trips, and has cheap, common ammo. It's hard to say the range I'll be shooting caribou/muskox from... I'm sure you guys know better than I do, but I expect anywhere from 30-120 meters.

I live in a community of about 1500 people, and only two stores, so there isn't much local selection. I expect to order most of my supplies online as needed.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

[QUOTE=David_Harvey;1623558]
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't have much experience with rifles beyond firing a .22. The key for me is not too much kick, light and easy to carry for long hunting trips, and has cheap, common ammo. It's hard to say the range I'll be shooting caribou/muskox from... I'm sure you guys know better than I do, but I expect anywhere from 30-120 meters.
QUOTE]

The lighter the rifle, the more recoil it will give you. I don't know of a single person who has felt the recoil on a shot taken while shooting at game. If you are worried though, consider calibres such as a 270 Win and 30-06. They will not have as much recoil as the 300 Win Mag. I suggested earlier.

Shot placement is more important than calibre size. If you are going to flinch due to the recoil, you will not be accurate. Better to have a 270 in the vitals than a 300 Mag in the paunch.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by t-hunt-3

The basic elite, since 4200 no longer is being produced, will do fine for anything in this country they are tested with375 h&h so they should hold the recoil but from there the price goes up, depending on the glass, the Zeiss conquest for example are now on for 450 in the 3-9x40

So you can no longer get a 3-9x40 bushnell 4200 with a simple duplex crosshair? A darn shame but the 3200's are a good scope too. I bought a Stainless/ Laminate Ruger Hawkeye and put a Bushnell 3200 on it for about $1100 a couple years ago, its a pretty nice combo IMO.

[sunsetrider2011]

If I were you i would start with something all around for now, leave the magnum calibres alone, go with a 243 or 25-06 or 7mm-08 and see if you enjoy the sport first, you can always move up from there, if all your used to shooting is a rimfire,, then a jump to a magnum isnt going to help you much, My advice is start with a lighter calibre then work up,, 243, 6mm, 25 -06, 7m-08 then on to 270 30-06 any one of these will do the job and more and not create bad flinches or habits in shooting form because of recoil. Start small and work up.

[7mm08]

I would suggest a rifle that fits you best in .308 and practice with it. I am assuming you will be buying factory ammo, and the .308 is very common and should be available most anywhere. When practicing at the range, use a PAST recoil pad or something similar. Tames the recoil even more. As mentioned earlier, Hardly anyone notices recoil when taking a shot at a game animal. The .308 is more than enough caliber for the job at the ranges you stated.
Good luck.

[duceman]

for the conditions you outlined, i would go with a 308 or 30-06, and fixed 6x scope.
as stated, shoulder a few and see what fits. lee.

[David_Harvey]

From what everyone has suggested, it sounds like there are some key trade-offs to pay attention to:

- lighter rifle = more recoil
- higher calibre = more recoil, less accuracy due to reaction/expectation of recoil
- more expensive scope = less expensive rifle (given finite budget)

Could someone give a rough guideline for you how you would distribute $1k into rifle/scope? ($700 into rifle, $300 into scope, for example).

Most appropriate rifles (based on comments):
- Tikka T3
- Weatherby Vanguard
- Savage 11/111
- Bushnell Elite

How important is it that I choose the best of these options, given that I'm a new hunter? Are they all pretty similar in the end for someone who doesn't know all the fine details/differences?

Most appropriate calibre:
- .270 win
- .300 win mag
- .300 wsm

Are these all fairly similar in price/availability?

sunsetrider2011 - thanks, and you're probably right, but I'm looking for single solution.

7mm08 - thanks for the PAST recoil pad suggestion - I'll look into that. Any suggestions on what accessories I should NOT get suckered into buying, vs the actually useful stuff for a new hunter?

[purgatory.sv]

Every one wants to go to the local store to make the purchase, what do they stock at the store in the community you will be in?
Do they seem to always have some in stock?
Make the purchase based on that, keep it simple.