Carrying of sidearms

[obsessed1]

Lol my bob has all the essentials...first aid kit, life straws, fire starter. No hand gun if thats what your getting at

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Lol my bob has all the essentials...first aid kit, life straws, fire starter. No hand gun if thats what your getting at

no, you answered what I was getting at quite nicely

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Crime rate is falling so how would a non event have any bearing to the discussion.

To give you something to chew on...earlier I said if I lived in a ghetto I would likely want to carry.

So again, another dodge.

Thanks.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by expmler

So again, another dodge.

Thanks.

Ok. How is asking an irrelevant question in a fun debate and then being outed for such a dodge?

Then might I add you totally refuse to discuss the common concerns the average voter would have on the topic.

If you no longer wish to discuss just say so. Throwing out wild and irrelevant and make believe scenarios did not help your position. I hope you realize that.

So go back to my earlier post and let's directly talk about facts. Average peoples concerns.

Otherwise...happy new year!

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Ok. How is asking an irrelevant question in a fun debate and then being outed for such a dodge?

Then might I add you totally refuse to discuss the common concerns the average voter would have on the topic.

If you no longer wish to discuss just say so. Throwing out wild and irrelevant and make believe scenarios did not help your position. I hope you realize that.

So go back to my earlier post and let's directly talk about facts. Average peoples concerns.

Otherwise...happy new year!

It is you that brought the crime rate into the discussion. Stating that it is not high enough to warrant CCW.

Now you claim it is irrelevant to talk about.

BTW did you read about the seven lotto winners in Calgary last night?

[surhuntsalot]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

First I would check my lottery ticket. I have a far better chane of winning $50million and no...your fear mongering hail Mary lob of a bad guy is coming...save the children does not work.

Now if a guy phoned and said he was armed and coming over in 10 minutes I would go next door with the family and call the cops.

If I was heading to a drug deal a gun would be required equipment.

Armed intruders into an occupied home is extremely rare unless you are a drug dealer or watching / living the movie The Purge... I am not as panicked as you seem to be on safety in Canada.

On a probability basis you have a higher probability of one of your kids accidentally shooting someone.

Not sure where to even start.... There have been so many things you have said in previous posts, that although there is some truth to some of them, there is also an obvious refusal to acknowledge "The Other Side"...

I'm glad you feel safe enough to not feel the need to carry, and put all your faith in our law enforcement system. Your satement of "if an intruder were to give you 10 minutes warning, you'd head to the neighbour " is just ridiculous... Years ago there was a woman in Edmonton, I believe her name was Barb Dannelesko, who was murdered by an intruder in her home. She got no warning....

True, your logic that crime rates may be falling, therefore reducing a need. If there were to be only one incident in a year, and it were to be to me and my family, that would be enough and the only one that mattered. Further more, especially when you live in an area where response time can exceed 20 minutes or more for LEO's to arrive, a lot of bad things can happen in that time.

You seem to have a great ability to point out the negative things that happen, but to say that Open or Concealed carry has no merit is nothing more than your opinion. Have you even Googled incidents where people with carry permits have saved lives (honest, it has happened) ? Do you refuse to accept that states in the US with the most Liberal carry laws such as Montana continue to have the lowest crime rates ? A lot of the homocides that are gun related that you refer to tends to be gang and drug related. Those are more socio-economic problems that have developed in that culture , Not as a result of law abiding citiczens carrying handguns. Rather it has created a reason for Law Abiding Citiczens to carry. I find your link to suicides invalid as a point as well. Those with that intent will find a way . To say that because they have a gun increases that risk, you are saying that probably over 90% of the people on this forum are of increased risk of suicide because we have a firearm (you know the length of barrel is irrelevant on this topic)...

The reality is that this world is changing. That Neighbor you plan to run to, could very well be the same person coming to your door with a shotgun in a Bi-polar rage that your dog **** on his lawn. What would make the difference when he busts through your door ? The Glock on your hip, or the Model 700 in the safe in the basement ? Sorry, forgot, you'd just tell him to stay calm until the police arrive...

Yes, accidents can happen... Hence the reason for training, and education.... Criminals who break laws really don't care if you make more laws. People with psychological problems will still commit atrocities . That's just reality and we do the best we can to correct it. For the times that we can't predict/remove ourselves from those situations, we should still have the right to protect ourselves if we choose. Be it from burglars or Bears...

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

Not sure where to even start.... There have been so many things you have said in previous posts, that although there is some truth to some of them, there is also an obvious refusal to acknowledge "The Other Side"...

I'm glad you feel safe enough to not feel the need to carry, and put all your faith in our law enforcement system. Your satement of "if an intruder were to give you 10 minutes warning, you'd head to the neighbour " is just ridiculous... Years ago there was a woman in Edmonton, I believe her name was Barb Dannelesko, who was murdered by an intruder in her home. She got no warning....

True, your logic that crime rates may be falling, therefore reducing a need. If there were to be only one incident in a year, and it were to be to me and my family, that would be enough and the only one that mattered. Further more, especially when you live in an area where response time can exceed 20 minutes or more for LEO's to arrive, a lot of bad things can happen in that time.

You seem to have a great ability to point out the negative things that happen, but to say that Open or Concealed carry has no merit is nothing more than your opinion. Have you even Googled incidents where people with carry permits have saved lives (honest, it has happened) ? Do you refuse to accept that states in the US with the most Liberal carry laws such as Montana continue to have the lowest crime rates ? A lot of the homocides that are gun related that you refer to tends to be gang and drug related. Those are more socio-economic problems that have developed in that culture , Not as a result of law abiding citiczens carrying handguns. Rather it has created a reason for Law Abiding Citiczens to carry. I find your link to suicides invalid as a point as well. Those with that intent will find a way . To say that because they have a gun increases that risk, you are saying that probably over 90% of the people on this forum are of increased risk of suicide because we have a firearm (you know the length of barrel is irrelevant on this topic)...

The reality is that this world is changing. That Neighbor you plan to run to, could very well be the same person coming to your door with a shotgun in a Bi-polar rage that your dog **** on his lawn. What would make the difference when he busts through your door ? The Glock on your hip, or the Model 700 in the safe in the basement ? Sorry, forgot, you'd just tell him to stay calm until the police arrive...

Yes, accidents can happen... Hence the reason for training, and education.... Criminals who break laws really don't care if you make more laws. People with psychological problems will still commit atrocities . That's just reality and we do the best we can to correct it. For the times that we can't predict/remove ourselves from those situations, we should still have the right to protect ourselves if we choose. Be it from burglars or Bears...

Hey...thanks for responding. Hope you are having a great start to the new year.

Firstly I do fully acknowledge the other side of the equation. I just find the position lacking in substance and rooted mostly in fear and emotion.

You missed my point on getting prior warning of someone coming to hurt me. You hit the point squarely on. In almost all such violent crimes...they are opportunistic and happen suddenly without warning. Most often they are from someone you know and hence likely will not be anticipating such violence. Therefore you will not have a gun in your hand at the onset of the confrontation and therefore a gun will be of no use. You can counter by saying everyone should walk around with a gun cocked and holstered on their person. We can discuss that in a bit.

You point out your emotional concern about violence and thankfully acknowledge this is falling. When you note this you realize our murder rate is far lower than the US and we have distinctly different gun laws as well. If you purport to bring in American style gun laws then in effect you will also see a rise in gun related violence and therefore create your own feedback loop requiring a gun...on an even more fearful emotional level.

I have acknowledge that there are rare occurrences in which someone's concealed carry has saved someone...however there are far more instances where such guns have accidentally killed someone. Combine that with thousands of more murders in a more prolific gun culture you can see that the argument of saving one yet many more die does not compute.

I would however argue that if you live in rural Yellowknife etc. that having a side arm in case of bears or because RCMP can be an hour away is not unreasonable. Having a side arm in Calgary or Edmonton etc... don't see the value given the potential negatives.

The suicide reference you mention is taken out of context. The other poster brought up that situation as a positive... He was wrong. Murder and suicide is both a problem. Yes...other methods can be used but if you look into mental issues if you have the easiest way out it will be taken. Remove it and the family has a chance to help. One could look up the suicide rates in Canada and the US and see if they are different then compare use of guns in both instances. If the rates are the same I would agree with you.

The gun related incidents involving crime is something in other threads I have mentioned needs to be understood. I would like to see if some statistician could normalize criminal on criminal violence out of the equation and then just compare the remainder. It is a stat we just don't have but I agree one that is very good to know in this debate. It could really change my opinion dramatically. In the absence however I rely on the current facts.

Unfortunately you then digress to the emotional argument of your neighbor will be out to kill you someday. The crime trends are ever decreasing. Your emotional examples do not show the true state and future of Canadian crime. Quite frankly if I was bipolar and you ticked me off you would see my smiling face walking over to chat and in a second you would be dead from my glock on the ground. I would not give you a second to expect it or react to it. However...thanks to you my glock was loaded. I then take yours out of the holster and continue on with my rage. See...a story can quickly turn bad. I prefer to have an argument over your dog dodo...or simply at night just fling it into your gutters. Everyone wins.

Yes...accidents happen. However the more guns in the wrongs hands be them criminals or incompetent owners the more unnecessary deaths. Give your paranoia of a neighbor shooting you over dog dodo...and magnify that to emotionally stressed out people all over buying glocks and who wins other than the gun makers? Even with training the mother's 2 year old just killed her in a Walmart. Training means squat. People take hunter training but many break the rules every year. Shooting from trucks, spot lighting, baiting, shooting out of season, shooting without a tag... So training is no utopian correction to 2 kids being killed a week in the US.

You want more guns in Canada. In the US...more guns equal more murders. You want more guns to protect against being murdered yet you will increase that statistic. Again... it does not compute yet I acknowledge the emotional fear on the other side of the argument.

Thanks for the chat.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

Not sure where to even start.... There have been so many things you have said in previous posts, that although there is some truth to some of them, there is also an obvious refusal to acknowledge "The Other Side"...

I'm glad you feel safe enough to not feel the need to carry, and put all your faith in our law enforcement system. Your satement of "if an intruder were to give you 10 minutes warning, you'd head to the neighbour " is just ridiculous... Years ago there was a woman in Edmonton, I believe her name was Barb Dannelesko, who was murdered by an intruder in her home. She got no warning....

True, your logic that crime rates may be falling, therefore reducing a need. If there were to be only one incident in a year, and it were to be to me and my family, that would be enough and the only one that mattered. Further more, especially when you live in an area where response time can exceed 20 minutes or more for LEO's to arrive, a lot of bad things can happen in that time.

You seem to have a great ability to point out the negative things that happen, but to say that Open or Concealed carry has no merit is nothing more than your opinion. Have you even Googled incidents where people with carry permits have saved lives (honest, it has happened) ? Do you refuse to accept that states in the US with the most Liberal carry laws such as Montana continue to have the lowest crime rates ? A lot of the homocides that are gun related that you refer to tends to be gang and drug related. Those are more socio-economic problems that have developed in that culture , Not as a result of law abiding citiczens carrying handguns. Rather it has created a reason for Law Abiding Citiczens to carry. I find your link to suicides invalid as a point as well. Those with that intent will find a way . To say that because they have a gun increases that risk, you are saying that probably over 90% of the people on this forum are of increased risk of suicide because we have a firearm (you know the length of barrel is irrelevant on this topic)...

The reality is that this world is changing. That Neighbor you plan to run to, could very well be the same person coming to your door with a shotgun in a Bi-polar rage that your dog **** on his lawn. What would make the difference when he busts through your door ? The Glock on your hip, or the Model 700 in the safe in the basement ? Sorry, forgot, you'd just tell him to stay calm until the police arrive...

Yes, accidents can happen... Hence the reason for training, and education.... Criminals who break laws really don't care if you make more laws. People with psychological problems will still commit atrocities . That's just reality and we do the best we can to correct it. For the times that we can't predict/remove ourselves from those situations, we should still have the right to protect ourselves if we choose. Be it from burglars or Bears...

Interesting thought process you have there.

As I sit here, I see many things around me that I could easily turn into a weapon, should an intruder burst in, right now. And this is my house, so I know where the cast iron frying pan is, the aluminum baseball bat, the fire poker, the lighter and aerosol furniture polish is, as well as the nooks and crannies and blind angles. So, if some random dude busts in, I think he'll leave my premises a little worse for wear (unless this interloper is well trained in home invasion/clearing techniques).

FWIW, I had a drunk neighbour bust in one night, looking for his wife. It was easy enough to avoid his detection without even trying too hard, again because I know the layout of my house and he didn't. Eventually, he calmed down a bit, and I talked with him for a while, and we had a beer and I sent him on his way. I didn't even have to bust open his skull.

I have no special training. I worked as department store security in one of the crappier neighbourhoods in Edmonton, and played some rugby, so I have a little experience with arrest and control techniques, and generally thumping on people for fun, but no Joe Ninja or Commando Bob, or anything. Still, I don't feel fearful of people or my surroundings when I walk to or from work at odd hours of the day or night.

So, I really don't get the concept of carrying around a hand cannon to make me feel safe or feel like I can protect my family. In the bush, I know I've been stalked by cougars, and I've stumbled across the odd bear while bow-hunting, and I know I'd stand almost no chance (especially the cougars, they kill you before you know you're getting dead) even though I carry bear spray and a couple of hunting knives. I don't think a hand cannon would change how quick I could become dinner. But maybe a hand cannon would help a bit. Drawing the pistol/bear spray/hunting knife is where I see the "pinch point", as I figure if one can't get it out and on target in time, one's pretty much done for.

I'm not for CC or OC because I see how stupid people are, in general, and I think giving them a little hand held death dealer is going to increase the risk to the general public, out of proportion to any mitigation of violence that may otherwise ensue. And I make the distinction between handguns and long guns simply due to the difference in size and weight and therefore, relative cumbersome operation of said devices. I'd rather people didn't carry firearms of any sort, loaded and cocked, around in public, at all. Hunting, target shooting, sure. But to have people able to wander into the local grocery store with their tricked out Ruger strapped to them, and a couple of glock in leg holsters.....just seems like a recipe for bad situations. Some minor dispute suddenly turns into a draw-down? And a 3rd party shows up and has to decide who "the good guy with the gun" is? Nah, I don't have enough confidence in people for that.

I wouldn't vote for CC or OC unless it's in a backwoods environment, and even then, a 12 guage would probably be more useful.

And that's my 2 cents.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Interesting thought process you have there.

As I sit here, I see many things around me that I could easily turn into a weapon, should an intruder burst in, right now. And this is my house, so I know where the cast iron frying pan is, the aluminum baseball bat, the fire poker, the lighter and aerosol furniture polish is, as well as the nooks and crannies and blind angles. So, if some random dude busts in, I think he'll leave my premises a little worse for wear (unless this interloper is well trained in home invasion/clearing techniques).

FWIW, I had a drunk neighbour bust in one night, looking for his wife. It was easy enough to avoid his detection without even trying too hard, again because I know the layout of my house and he didn't. Eventually, he calmed down a bit, and I talked with him for a while, and we had a beer and I sent him on his way. I didn't even have to bust open his skull.

I have no special training. I worked as department store security in one of the crappier neighbourhoods in Edmonton, and played some rugby, so I have a little experience with arrest and control techniques, and generally thumping on people for fun, but no Joe Ninja or Commando Bob, or anything. Still, I don't feel fearful of people or my surroundings when I walk to or from work at odd hours of the day or night.

So, I really don't get the concept of carrying around a hand cannon to make me feel safe or feel like I can protect my family. In the bush, I know I've been stalked by cougars, and I've stumbled across the odd bear while bow-hunting, and I know I'd stand almost no chance (especially the cougars, they kill you before you know you're getting dead) even though I carry bear spray and a couple of hunting knives. I don't think a hand cannon would change how quick I could become dinner. But maybe a hand cannon would help a bit. Drawing the pistol/bear spray/hunting knife is where I see the "pinch point", as I figure if one can't get it out and on target in time, one's pretty much done for.

I'm not for CC or OC because I see how stupid people are, in general, and I think giving them a little hand held death dealer is going to increase the risk to the general public, out of proportion to any mitigation of violence that may otherwise ensue. And I make the distinction between handguns and long guns simply due to the difference in size and weight and therefore, relative cumbersome operation of said devices. I'd rather people didn't carry firearms of any sort, loaded and cocked, around in public, at all. Hunting, target shooting, sure. But to have people able to wander into the local grocery store with their tricked out Ruger strapped to them, and a couple of glock in leg holsters.....just seems like a recipe for bad situations. Some minor dispute suddenly turns into a draw-down? And a 3rd party shows up and has to decide who "the good guy with the gun" is? Nah, I don't have enough confidence in people for that.

I wouldn't vote for CC or OC unless it's in a backwoods environment, and even then, a 12 guage would probably be more useful.

And that's my 2 cents.

You sound like a sane, well adjusted, thinking man.

Tell me, if you carried a handgun would any of that change?

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by expmler

You sound like a sane, well adjusted, thinking man.

Tell me, if you carried a handgun would any of that change?

Ya. I'd be worried about some yabbo trying to take it off me, and use it against me. I'd be worried about holster failure (ie, inadvertent loss in one manner or another).

If OC/CC was legal, I may own a handgun for target shooting or back woods use, but it'd be locked up with my other firearms, as I'd rather not have the constant worry that carrying it would cause me.

And if an altercation commenced and I became part of it, it'd be obvious that I was not "the bad guy with the gun", as I wouldn't have it on me.

But that's just my perspective on it.

[5Lgreenback]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Hey...thanks for responding. Hope you are having a great start to the new year.

If you purport to bring in American style gun laws then in effect you will also see a rise in gun related violence and therefore create your own feedback loop requiring a gun...on an even more fearful emotional level.

I think thats a key and important point in the debate.

Of course if we did it with much stricter rules and more hoops to jump through to achieve legal carry, it might prevent that cycle from happening.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Ya. I'd be worried about some yabbo trying to take it off me, and use it against me. I'd be worried about holster failure (ie, inadvertent loss in one manner or another).

If OC/CC was legal, I may own a handgun for target shooting or back woods use, but it'd be locked up with my other firearms, as I'd rather not have the constant worry that carrying it would cause me.

And if an altercation commenced and I became part of it, it'd be obvious that I was not "the bad guy with the gun", as I wouldn't have it on me.

But that's just my perspective on it.

I don't think you answered exmpler question.
This yabbo trying to take it from you would in fact be a criminal would he/she not?

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I don't think you answered exmpler question.
This yabbo trying to take it from you would in fact be a criminal would he/she not?

I think his last paragraph is his answer, his first paragraph would be the beginning of this thought process to come to that answer.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I don't think you answered exmpler question.
This yabbo trying to take it from you would in fact be a criminal would he/she not?

Of course he didn't.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

I think his last paragraph is his answer, his first paragraph would be the beginning of this thought process to come to that answer.

So if he had a sidearm he'd be a bad guy? At least he's truthful.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I don't think you answered exmpler question.
This yabbo trying to take it from you would in fact be a criminal would he/she not?

Well, Expmlr asked : "You sound like a sane, well adjusted, thinking man.

Tell me, if you carried a handgun would any of that change?"

and I responded (in summary) that I'd be different in that I'd be walking around worried all the time. Thus, I don't think I'd be as "well adjusted".

The yabbo would be a criminal if they assaulted me while trying to get my handgun, as assault is a crime. Then, if they got it, they'd also have become a thief. Perhaps they have great pickpocketing skills, and it'd get lifted off me, then I have a problem. Perhaps some chump in a bar is feeling all manly, and wants a bit of a scuffle because my handgun gets his testosterone all flowing.

I'd just rather not have to deal with that extra stress in life.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

So if he had a sidearm he'd be a bad guy? At least he's truthful.

That's not really a correct statement.

In a fracas, I'd rather not risk being mistaken for "a bad guy with a gun".

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Interesting thought process you have there.

As I sit here, I see many things around me that I could easily turn into a weapon, should an intruder burst in, right now. And this is my house, so I know where the cast iron frying pan is, the aluminum baseball bat, the fire poker, the lighter and aerosol furniture polish is, as well as the nooks and crannies and blind angles. So, if some random dude busts in, I think he'll leave my premises a little worse for wear (unless this interloper is well trained in home invasion/clearing techniques).

FWIW, I had a drunk neighbour bust in one night, looking for his wife. It was easy enough to avoid his detection without even trying too hard, again because I know the layout of my house and he didn't. Eventually, he calmed down a bit, and I talked with him for a while, and we had a beer and I sent him on his way. I didn't even have to bust open his skull.

I have no special training. I worked as department store security in one of the crappier neighbourhoods in Edmonton, and played some rugby, so I have a little experience with arrest and control techniques, and generally thumping on people for fun, but no Joe Ninja or Commando Bob, or anything. Still, I don't feel fearful of people or my surroundings when I walk to or from work at odd hours of the day or night.

So, I really don't get the concept of carrying around a hand cannon to make me feel safe or feel like I can protect my family. In the bush, I know I've been stalked by cougars, and I've stumbled across the odd bear while bow-hunting, and I know I'd stand almost no chance (especially the cougars, they kill you before you know you're getting dead) even though I carry bear spray and a couple of hunting knives. I don't think a hand cannon would change how quick I could become dinner. But maybe a hand cannon would help a bit. Drawing the pistol/bear spray/hunting knife is where I see the "pinch point", as I figure if one can't get it out and on target in time, one's pretty much done for.

I'm not for CC or OC because I see how stupid people are, in general, and I think giving them a little hand held death dealer is going to increase the risk to the general public, out of proportion to any mitigation of violence that may otherwise ensue. And I make the distinction between handguns and long guns simply due to the difference in size and weight and therefore, relative cumbersome operation of said devices. I'd rather people didn't carry firearms of any sort, loaded and cocked, around in public, at all. Hunting, target shooting, sure. But to have people able to wander into the local grocery store with their tricked out Ruger strapped to them, and a couple of glock in leg holsters.....just seems like a recipe for bad situations. Some minor dispute suddenly turns into a draw-down? And a 3rd party shows up and has to decide who "the good guy with the gun" is? Nah, I don't have enough confidence in people for that.

I wouldn't vote for CC or OC unless it's in a backwoods environment, and even then, a 12 guage would probably be more useful.

And that's my 2 cents.

I agree with this completely.
That should be the thread ender, right there.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Well, Expmlr asked : "You sound like a sane, well adjusted, thinking man.

Tell me, if you carried a handgun would any of that change?"

and I responded (in summary) that I'd be different in that I'd be walking around worried all the time. Thus, I don't think I'd be as "well adjusted".

The yabbo would be a criminal if they assaulted me while trying to get my handgun, as assault is a crime. Then, if they got it, they'd also have become a thief. Perhaps they have great pickpocketing skills, and it'd get lifted off me, then I have a problem. Perhaps some chump in a bar is feeling all manly, and wants a bit of a scuffle because my handgun gets his testosterone all flowing.

I'd just rather not have to deal with that extra stress in life.

Believe me I'm not trying to sway your opinion in any way and I don't know you from adam but I don't think having I sidearm would make you any more or any less of a man and for the ones that have a tendancy to get bigger and tougher with a gun I would hope that the screening process would weed them out.
I have a atc and haven't noticed any extra stress in my life by having one. Quite the opposite. I can carry on with my job knowing that I have one other piece of PPE to get me home at the end of the day.

[Redfrog]

Anyone who is afraid of carry a handgun should not be forced to do so. End of story.

Oddly it is always the other yabbo who is dangerous, never the guy who is afraid to carry.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Well, Expmlr asked : "You sound like a sane, well adjusted, thinking man.

Tell me, if you carried a handgun would any of that change?"

and I responded (in summary) that I'd be different in that I'd be walking around worried all the time. Thus, I don't think I'd be as "well adjusted".

The yabbo would be a criminal if they assaulted me while trying to get my handgun, as assault is a crime. Then, if they got it, they'd also have become a thief. Perhaps they have great pickpocketing skills, and it'd get lifted off me, then I have a problem. Perhaps some chump in a bar is feeling all manly, and wants a bit of a scuffle because my handgun gets his testosterone all flowing.

I'd just rather not have to deal with that extra stress in life.

I understand what you are saying about the added responsibilities of carrying a sidearm.

What I was more asking about is if you think that if you carried a side arm you would be prone to escalate any minor dispute into a shootout, as the fear of that happening with other people seems to be a common reason given by people opposed to CC.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Believe me I'm not trying to sway your opinion in any way and I don't know you from adam but I don't think having I sidearm would make you any more or any less of a man and for the ones that have a tendancy to get bigger and tougher with a gun I would hope that the screening process would weed them out.
I have a atc and haven't noticed any extra stress in my life by having one. Quite the opposite. I can carry on with my job knowing that I have one other piece of PPE to get me home at the end of the day.

No worries, bud. I'm pretty set in my opinion here.

The current screening process regarding firearms doesn't work that well, as I've seen guys who think they're bigger and tougher in their camo or other kit, at the shooting range. Heck, just buying a truck or lift kit or whatever, make some guys think they're bigger and tougher. It's not a manifestation that is firearm specific.

And my hat is off to you for what you do, your dedication to the rest of us for putting yourself there, and your comfort with the tools that enable you to do it. I mean that.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by expmler

I understand what you are saying about the added responsibilities of carrying a sidearm.

What I was more asking about is if you think that if you carried a side arm you would be prone to escalate any minor dispute into a shootout, as the fear of that happening with other people seems to be a common reason given by people opposed to CC.

Ah! I understand.

My answer is an emphatic NO.

I'm quite comfortable having differences of opinion with people, on many topics and in many scenarios. I already try to mitigate any escalation that tends towards bringing a physical aspect to a "spirited discussion". So, if a side arm were in my posession, that would not change, I don't think. However, I know people who get right twisted, at the slightest perceived insult or impingement even when it's unintentional, and are quite ready to drop the gloves if they think you even look at them wrong.

You could say I trust myself but I don't much trust other people.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Ah! I understand.

My answer is an emphatic NO.

I'm quite comfortable having differences of opinion with people, on many topics and in many scenarios. I already try to mitigate any escalation that tends towards bringing a physical aspect to a "spirited discussion". So, if a side arm were in my posession, that would not change, I don't think. However, I know people who get right twisted, at the slightest perceived insult or impingement even when it's unintentional, and are quite ready to drop the gloves if they think you even look at them wrong.

You could say I trust myself but I don't much trust other people.

I would hope that these people you speak of wouldn't be allowed to carry. In the big picture would it matter to them if they had a box cutter, screw driver or a gun. Could even resort to a kick to the head if they're intent on bringing a physical aspect to a spirited discussion.
Joe Blow the average Canadian has no intention of killing anyone. I don't think Joe would think any different if he had a gun or not.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by expmler

I understand what you are saying about the added responsibilities of carrying a sidearm.

What I was more asking about is if you think that if you carried a side arm you would be prone to escalate any minor dispute into a shootout, as the fear of that happening with other people seems to be a common reason given by people opposed to CC.

Not a reason I would use. While it can cause an escalation it would be the exception rather than the norm. Criminals on the other hand interacting with other criminals is a different story.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I would hope that these people you speak of wouldn't be allowed to carry. In the big picture would it matter to them if they had a box cutter, screw driver or a gun. Could even resort to a kick to the head if they're intent on bringing a physical aspect to a spirited discussion.
Joe Blow the average Canadian has no intention of killing anyone. I don't think Joe would think any different if he had a gun or not.

A psyche test is unlikely to be part of any screening system.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I think your odds are a little skewed.
I don't know anyone that has won a $50 mil lottery but I do know of someone that has been the victim of a home invasion.
The victim of the home invasion is neither a drug dealer or criminal, he was at the time a 63 year old grandpa and my father that lives in a good neighborhood in edmonton. The dirt bag was never caught but I am speculating that this was not the first time that he has invaded a citizens home by how professional he was at tying up the ol guy. My dad almost lost his feet from lack of circulation due to the metal coat hanger that was twisted in between his ankles. Now if somebody knocks on his door or mine they'll be greeted with something more than a smile.
As far as I'm concerned you can take your propabilities and shove them up that bald spot underneath your tail bone.

You said this.

Now you say this:

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I would hope that these people you speak of wouldn't be allowed to carry. In the big picture would it matter to them if they had a box cutter, screw driver or a gun. Could even resort to a kick to the head if they're intent on bringing a physical aspect to a spirited discussion.
Joe Blow the average Canadian has no intention of killing anyone. I don't think Joe would think any different if he had a gun or not.

These seem to be somewhat inconsistent positions.

And yes, I would hope the people I speak of wouldn't be allowed to carry, as well, but they live amongst us right now, and drive, and hunt, and shop for groceries, etc. I have no confidence a government mandated screening process would eliminate them from that option, any more than current automobile training and licensing eliminates road rage now.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

A psyche test is unlikely to be part of any screening system.

Maybe not a psyche test but a more in depth back ground check could be part of the screening.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Ah! I understand.

My answer is an emphatic NO.

I'm quite comfortable having differences of opinion with people, on many topics and in many scenarios. I already try to mitigate any escalation that tends towards bringing a physical aspect to a "spirited discussion". So, if a side arm were in my posession, that would not change, I don't think. However, I know people who get right twisted, at the slightest perceived insult or impingement even when it's unintentional, and are quite ready to drop the gloves if they think you even look at them wrong.

You could say I trust myself but I don't much trust other people.

I would venture to say that the vast majority of the people advocating for CC are of the same temperament as you.

I must say, you are one of the more honest people from the other side of the debate I have talked to.

It's refreshing.

[norwestalta]

Help me out Badger. I don't understand where I'm inconsistent.
In my experiences the average Canadian is more apt to be a victim of a criminal occurance then winning a lottery.
The average law abiding citizen would not become a instant gunfighter with the intent on shooting someone that makes him/her angry because they've got a firearm on their person.