Sheep Question

[Diamondhitch]

Originally Posted by Justahunter

... It is estimated that in the 1800`s there was approx. 10000 sheep in Alberta. This is a time when it could be argued that the sheep herd was in a balance NOT affected by man...

Man nearly wiped out the bison in the 1800s, whitetails in many areas, Wolves in the US and anything else they could fit in their mouths. I would put little faith in that argument.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

The data is for BC Rocky Mountain Bighorns.


And the same researchers that are claiming hunting induced genetic selection in Alberta are also calling for greater restrictions on the BC full curl regulations. They want BC to shorten seasons, create more areas off limits to hunting, for more general full curl seasons to go on to a draw, and for current draw seasons to offer fewer licences.

The end goal of this proposed Alberta full curl season is blatantly obvious, to end sheep hunting bit by bit.

The new Alberta Sheep Management Plan Draft is proposing management strategies that will place all Sheep hunting on a draw, along with more areas to be eliminated from any hunting. That's right, the new plan includes thresholds that will place much of our general seasons, even those on a full curl regulation, onto a draw.

Those that thought these researchers would be happy with a general full curl season are sadly mistaken.

Welcome to the new Compassionate Sheep Management model.... no hunting allowed.

Can you provide a link to this new plan and said proposals. What are the thresholds you are talking about. When trophy ram percentages post season drop to a certain level? Like what is happening in much of the province? What happens to outfitter allocations when this occurs? Details please. I am also having a hard time finding out much about Albertas Compassionate Wildlife model. A link to that would be super duper appreciated to. I could maybe try Matt Besko on that, he may know.

[Justahunter]

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

Man nearly wiped out the bison in the 1800s, whitetails in many areas, Wolves in the US and anything else they could fit in their mouths. I would put little faith in that argument.

Those numbers come from our ESRD . If you do not believe them then just maybe ANY/ALL their numbers are suspect

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Justahunter

Consider this .We currently have nearly 12000 sheep in Alberta. It is estimated that in the 1800`s there was approx. 10000 sheep in Alberta. This is a time when it could be argued that the sheep herd was in a balance NOT affected by man so likely near carrying capacity. That means we have 2000 more then 100 years ago living on the same land base. Except we have lost a lot of habitat to a variety of reasons plus we have had MANAGEMENT. Long story short is MAYBE we are experiencing a habitat issue more then anything.
Do some math but first try to believe that a three day fly over of all of Alberta sheep ranges can be any where near accurate . We are at around 4.5% mature rams for 11750 total pop. Reduce that total pop to 10,000 as in 1850 and we then have a mature ram ratio of nearly 5.3%%. Well within the guidelines. Our problem is not overharvest of Mature Rams ,it may be an underharvest of sheep in a balanced fashion. Let the first timers shoot a sheep. Then if some of them want a BIG sheep great but some of us just want to hunt. BUT most of all I want a system that is honest and legitimate not what we have been getting all along the eastern slopes under the guise of management. Anyone that wants to argue Elk ,Moose ,Deer etc. on the Eastern Slopes are well managed and in fine shape better worry that the same people want to manage the sheep the same way.

You have to go back another 100 years, to pre-european times make a meaningful argument about historical sheep populations. Estimates of bighorn numbers in North America are thought to be upwards of 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 animals at that time. The 1800s was a time of mass slaughter of big game herds, sheep included, across the continent as Europeans moved westward. Alberta was not immune. This part of your argument is not valid.

The 11,000 number is also not valid. To include the park population in your estimates is misleading. Like I said to KC, you might as well include BCs and Montana population in your numbers if that's the way you want to figure things. Hell, why don't you just make up a number.