What if you accidentally kill a sturgeon? (Big Brother is watching!)

[Geezle]

Well, I was down at the river yesterday, and a guy just down from me caught a sturgeon. He pulled it up on shore and was having a hard time unhooking it, so I ran and grabbed my forceps and gave him a hand. After we finally got it unhooked he played with his phone for a bit and got the camera set up so his grandson I think it was, could take a couple pics. Then he passed the fish to the grandson for a couple more pics...and kinda fumbled the fish in the process.

So he finally puts the fish back in the water, and it's pretty clear it's not doing too well. He was kinda swishing it around in the water, BBJ suggested the guy point the sturgeon up into the current to revive it, but he just kept doing his thing. He eventually let it go and it swam a few feet away, and then came up on its side...a minute or so later it finally slowly swam away.

*NOW* here's the Big Brother part. Shortly after all this all happened a Fish and Wildlife officer showed up. I had to laugh a little because it was the same fish cop I keep running in to on the river, and he's a really good guy He checked a couple licenses and hooks for barbs and chatted for a bit, and talked about the sturgeon I'd caught the day before and made some suggestions as far as keeping records of sturgeon caught for them I was a little surprised that he'd seen all this go down the day before, and the detail that he'd seen.

Then he brought up the sturgeon the guy had just caught, and told him that he was watching and the sturgeon had been out of the water for over 8 minutes Gave him some tips on getting the fish going quicker, like cutting the line instead of removing the hook and so on.

So I guess my question is, had this sturgeon ended up dying because of poor handling, what would the consequences have been to this guy?

[AdAMxr]

Its my understanding that if it was dead floating in the water theres nothing a C.O could really do, but if the fish was dead on shore beside the guys fishing or cut up or in someones truck then thats a whole differnt story. unintentional=nothing they can do intentional or negligence= big trouble for someone

[davyt]

Interesting question. I would tend to agree with Adamxr, that as long as a reasonable attempt is made, no one is ever going to get in any sort of legal trouble for it.

That's a bit of a cop out though, as what defines "a reasonable attempt"?

From the sounds of it, the fish probably did die.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by davyt

From the sounds of it, the fish probably did die.

X2 8 minuites is a long time to go with out breathing

[Calgaryguy1977]

Ya know when I C and R normally I leave it in the net and try to keep it underwater as much as possible before I release it. Do you think that would be harmful or better for the fish? I assume it's better but I'm really not sure.
What do you guys think? I haven't had any die yet so I assume it's a good practice.

[YeeHaw]

It's a tough call for the wardens, While fishing Wabamun last winter I deeply hooked a large pike while talking to the c,o, but after I got him up he was bleeding bad, and had part of his throte ripped, but had to be let go, even though the survival rate would be nill, all he told me was, at least you tried. The pike floted up to the surface about five min later, and could still not keep him though.

[fishnut9]

Originally Posted by YeeHaw

It's a tough call for the wardens, While fishing Wabamun last winter I deeply hooked a large pike while talking to the c,o, but after I got him up he was bleeding bad, and had part of his throte ripped, but had to be let go, even though the survival rate would be nill, all he told me was, at least you tried. The pike floted up to the surface about five min later, and could still not keep him though.

look on the bright side at least he will feed the fishies for days.

[coreya3212]

Obviously this is just one mans opinion, but in the case described above, I think the fisherman should have foregone the pictures. If you have trouble getting the hook out, and are keeping the fish out of the water, maybe the pictures were a extra risk. Please no one take this as me saying dont take pictures of your fish. I often bring them in and snap a couple like anyone, but if its a long fight or the fish seems rather fatigued, I dont bother.

to respond above, i think it is absolutley a good practice to remove hooks etc with your net submerged, facing the current aids as well. Happy fishing.

[go-big-or-go-home]

i think a fine or at least a decent warning should have been issued. 8 mins outta the water??????????????? thats like me standing holding a fish and powering thru two smokes then putting the fish back in. catch and release, not catch now and release in a bit.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Obviously this is just one mans opinion, but in the case described above, I think the fisherman should have foregone the pictures. If you have trouble getting the hook out, and are keeping the fish out of the water, maybe the pictures were a extra risk. Please no one take this as me saying dont take pictures of your fish. I often bring them in and snap a couple like anyone, but if its a long fight or the fish seems rather fatigued, I dont bother.

to respond above, i think it is absolutley a good practice to remove hooks etc with your net submerged, facing the current aids as well. Happy fishing.

x2 on this (except sometimes the fishy don't fit in the net)
I am surprised the fish swalllowed the hook or it was deep or whatever. I've caught many a sturg and every single one has been caught on their lip (knock on wood). Hope it stays that way. 8 mins....wow....poor fish.
Cheers!

[coreya3212]

[QUOTE=Fishfinder;643205]x2 on this (except sometimes the fishy don't fit in the net)

Valid point.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Fishfinder

x2 on this (except sometimes the fishy don't fit in the net)
I am surprised the fish swalllowed the hook or it was deep or whatever. I've caught many a sturg and every single one has been caught on their lip (knock on wood). Hope it stays that way. 8 mins....wow....poor fish.
Cheers!

Honestly it wasn't hooked very deep, but the guy was really not prepared, and he couldn't get it out by hand and had no pliers/forceps so I had to go get mine.

It was still tough to get out for some reason though...in the process I bent up his pickerel rig hook.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by go-big-or-go-home

i think a fine or at least a decent warning should have been issued. 8 mins outta the water??????????????? thats like me standing holding a fish and powering thru two smokes then putting the fish back in. catch and release, not catch now and release in a bit.

There was a decent warning, though i'm not entirely sure what was said as the fish cop took the guy to the side to go over it with him.

[Pikebreath]

One way to get fish back in the water quickly is to hold your breath when the fish is out of the water,,,, you need a breath, give the fish a drink and after both of you have taken a deep breath, you can resume taking the hook out, taking pictures etc.

[Sundancefisher]

Not much the CO could do. He did not retain it. He released it. Unfortunately no law against poor handling and releasing of fish. Hard to argue in court the fish did not live.

[Steven Noel]

To put it in perspective, a fish being out of water for 8 minutes, is just like a human being held underwater for 8 minutes.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by Geezle

Honestly it wasn't hooked very deep, but the guy was really not prepared, and he couldn't get it out by hand and had no pliers/forceps so I had to go get mine.

It was still tough to get out for some reason though...in the process I bent up his pickerel rig hook.

Yeah, they do have tough/solid muscle n skin, coulda just been the problem. Good on ya for helping out Who goes fishing without pliers

[lyons6]

If the CO watched this entire thing why did he wait and give advice after the incident? If it was 8 minutes he should have went down and given some advice or enforced something?? Just my opinion but he was waiting for a crime to happen instead of preventing a possible one

[alodar]

im always helping people unhook fish there...... some people just aren't prepared or don't want to touch the slimy fish.... i carry a pair of cable cutters in my tackle box to cut the hook apart if the hook doesnt want to come out that way it can work its way out on its own which ever way is easier
mind u ive only ever had to use it once.

[Anomaly]

Originally Posted by Steven Noel

To put it in perspective, a fish being out of water for 8 minutes, is just like a human being held underwater for 8 minutes.

not to be a nitpicky bastard...but this isnt true.

Most humans will die within just a few minutes underwater.
a fishes gills have massive surface area in water, out of water their gills collapse, reducing the surface area for oxygen transfer to just a fraction of what it should be....its certainly not very good for them at all, BUT
fish CAN in fact live quite a while out of water, (hours sometimes) depending on conditions and species.

im not condoning it, just wanted to correct that.

(imo, rough handling, espcially around the gills, and hook damage would kill far more fish than asphixiation)

[Cowtown guy]

I was under the impression that a fish that is illegal to retain must be released immediately. Where does 8 minutes fit into immediately?

I think the onus is on us to be ready. I fish for Walleye in a few reservoirs where there is a zero limit. When I set up in the boat or on shore I have pliers and jaw spreaders out and ready to use. I also make sure that the pliers I use have a cutter on them in case I need it in a hurry.

It only takes a few seconds to have this ready before I wet the line.

[buckmaster]

Originally Posted by lyons6

If the CO watched this entire thing why did he wait and give advice after the incident? If it was 8 minutes he should have went down and given some advice or enforced something?? Just my opinion but he was waiting for a crime to happen instead of preventing a possible one

The F&W officer took so long because Where he watches from would take him 10 minutes to get there.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by lyons6

If the CO watched this entire thing why did he wait and give advice after the incident? If it was 8 minutes he should have went down and given some advice or enforced something?? Just my opinion but he was waiting for a crime to happen instead of preventing a possible one

Depends on exactly where he was watching from...


edit: Oops! buckmaster kinda beat me to it

[alodar]

Originally Posted by Geezle

Depends on exactly where he was watching from...


edit: Oops! buckmaster kinda beat me to it

yeah by ten hours way to not read all the posts :P

[Chris K]

There is simply no excuse for having a sturgeon out of the water for 8 minutes. If there are no laws for any way to ticket this individual for their total lack of competence in handling a fish, especially one that is managed for it's more vulnerable existence, then some need to be made so officers can have means to instill common sense on people like this.

I take a lot of pictures with fish, and it frustrates me that people would risk killing or harming a fish just for a pictures sake. I do fish a lot more than the average person too, and make sure that fish are released quickly with as little harm as possible.

It may not be a frequent or widely used law, but I feel one would have been beneficial to have in this case regarding the careless treatment of this fish. At worst case, a written warning documented on the database for their fishing license so if checked by an officer and found treating fish in a similar way in the future there would be grounds for punishment. In my opinion the said individual does not lack the competency to deserve to have fishing privelidges.

Chris K

[spopadyn]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

not to be a nitpicky bastard...but this isnt true.

Most humans will die within just a few minutes underwater.
a fishes gills have massive surface area in water, out of water their gills collapse, reducing the surface area for oxygen transfer to just a fraction of what it should be....its certainly not very good for them at all, BUT
fish CAN in fact live quite a while out of water, (hours sometimes) depending on conditions and species.

im not condoning it, just wanted to correct that.

(imo, rough handling, espcially around the gills, and hook damage would kill far more fish than asphixiation)

He is correct - lots of scientific research on this. Easily the most common way for a fish to die is gill damage. I was fishing Wabamun this weekend around the humps of Fallis. We probably brought 20 fish to the boat and for some reason (maybe those plastic storm baits?) the fish had taken the lures all real deep. I never take the fish out of the water (usually a quick flip with the pliers), but at least 4 were bleeding real bad from the gills. Likely, they all died. Not to hijack the thread, but it is unfortunate that in C&R fishing you will lose or kill some fish. Of the 4 times I fished Wabamun this weekend, it was only on this one occasion that the bite was so hard the lures were being swallowed - is there any way to stop the lures from getting sucked down like that?

[Rockymtnx]

I just shake my head at the guy who had the fish out of the water for 8 minutes. Shame on you!
BBJ has the right idea on reviving the fish by pointing it up stream. The more water you can get flowing through its gills the more oxygen you will get in its system. Even if you don’t have flowing water you can handle the fish by pushing him forward in the water forcing more water through its mouth and gills.

[EZM]

"What seemed like" One Hundred years ago, when there were limits on Sturgeon like other species, we caught sturgeon on the S.Sask River, had them on a stinger for hours and drove them home to Calgary (a 4 hour trip) in a giant cooler with ice and they were still alive.

Not twitching, but actually alive and trying to swim as I (as a 8 year old kid) sprayed water on them on my backyard with a garden hose.

Not to downplay the importance of a quick release or to condone the 8 minute fiasco of unprepardness, but sturgeon are tougher than you think.

[RandyBoBandy]

not to condone the "eight minutes" out of water thing, but perhaps the dude had to get the "right" picture knowing full well he would be posting his catch on this forum. First if he says he caught a sturgeon, members would be asking for proof. Second, if he didn't have the politically correct photo done, then he'd get flamed to all HECK..so perhaps 8 minutes is not too long a time frame, if you trying to make everything alright on the AOF??