Crown land bait site and stand

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

It's illegal, end of discussion.

Grizz

Baiting bears is not illegal. The expectation is that someone will nurture a site- most likely for many years. To think you can show up and throw a barrel beside another guys is completely stupid.
This has nothing to do with a permanent stand. That is illegal. Keeping a mess past the season is illegal- we all get that. Pretty easy to tell where a bait site is and to stay away from it, even after a guy had lugged his barrels and garbage out.


End of discussion.

[Sooner]

Yegfishing, be a nice guy and keep looking unless you can contact the guy who left the sign. Nice to read you plan too.

I searched long and hard to find a wall tent camp site, its 15k from a road, quad in only through some nasty stuff and in some nice moose country. It's in the back of an old log area, picked my own trail in through trees. The site is only a tent area and half of a rain barrel sunk into the ground with a ton of rocks we scrounged at the base of that fire pit hole to prevent peat moss type smoldering. Other than a pile of chopped wood from 4 yrs ago and the fire pit, it's wild and needs a half day with the blade on a weed whacker to make it livable when you want to hunt moose.

My son and I used up 2 moose draws closer to home in the last 2 years, the 2 years prior, moose hunting in that northern zone sucked so we saved priority. Before that we used that site a lot. I would be mad if I came back and found someone had taken over our site. If someone found it, it is obvious that it is active to a degree. Not everyone comes back year after year with the draw wait times we see now or work/life gets in the way. Bait sites are the same imo, if you see it has been used to any degree, most likely, someone is coming back.

I look at bait sites/someones else stands the same. If on crown land, keep looking. No one wants to do the work to find a good spot only to have a squatter in it. But before you roast me, I know it's crown and can't stop anyone from setting up shop. I had a tree stand up in a tree once, back in the woods on a great cutline, it was a Wednesday. Was coming back for the weekend, so I left it up, foot pegs and all. On sat morning it was obvious someone used it since I was there. I was happy, they cleared more branches out of the way, so my sit was improved. It didn't bother me someone used my portable stand while I was away.

But I would be quite Pizzed to find my wall tent site taken over. I would think bear baiters would feel the same.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

You can't compare the 2. It's bear baiting not goose hunting. Bear bait sites take time to develop and nurture. A goose patch doesn't.

Why is it so incredibly hard to understand this concept around here? There are millions of acres of crown to hunt bears. This isn't whitetail or elk hunting where you aren't squatting on a piece. Bear baiting isn't a 1 day affair. It's completely legal and to not understand some basic unwritten rules of respecting another mans efforts is totally offside.

Furthermore, it isn't an ACTIVE bear site at the moment because most savvy baiters start right about now and don't waste their time in early April. (no offense to those who break their "cabin fever" and get started early- that's totally cool too.)

If a person was there the year before, Its now a permanent spot for that person? Like an owned trap line?

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

If a person was there the year before, Its now a permanent spot for that person? Like an owned trap line?

You need to comprehend what I am saying

If it has been abandoned it's fair game. But a site that has a possibility of being active- yes leave it the heck alone! Leave a note and try to be polite.

But you can always be the guy to sit someone's bait and harvest a bear off their time/effort/resources. The law isn't stopping you. But you can't legislate common sense.....

[last minute]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

If a person was there the year before, Its now a permanent spot for that person? Like an owned trap line?

Are speaking the truth because I have a new deer hunting spot I would love for it to be permanent on crown land .

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by last minute

Are speaking the truth because I have a new deer hunting spot I would love for it to be permanent on crown land .

Registered traplines are just that- registered with the Government .
Best bait stations are not, they are two completely different things , and permanent structures are not allowed for recreational hunters .
Anoetson has no more ownership rights to a foot than a fisherman does on the bank of a river on crown land
Cat

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

You need to comprehend what I am saying

If it has been abandoned it's fair game. But a site that has a possibility of being active- yes leave it the heck alone! Leave a note and try to be polite.

But you can always be the guy to sit someone's bait and harvest a bear off their time/effort/resources. The law isn't stopping you. But you can't legislate common sense.....

Is the spot an ownership situation for the previous year person or is it first come first serve in a new season?

[leeelmer]

I have had a similar thing happen to me.
Gone in and done the work, got a bait site established and had a outfitter, come in while I was gone(during the same season) and put a bait literally 50 feet from mine.
I was ****ed, I had stumbled onto a few of his old bait sites, not used and decided to move along as I didn't want the hassle, I was not overly pleased that he had permanent stands put all over the country side, over 20 within a 30 mile square, some used some not. And never took them down and moved his stuff. But I am in the camp of if someone did the work(even if illegal) I move along as I really don't need the bullsh&% of having a confrentation or my stuff wrecked while im not there. there is lots of bush out there.
I don't agree with leaving gear in the bush, or staking claim to a area, but established bait sites do take some work, so I move along. And I hope others would do the same. I hope that my 2 year old bait site does not get used by someone else, but if it does I guess I won't get all bent out of shape, I just think it is laziness if you use a old site that you did not set up.
To the OP if it was me, it is early in the season, and I would move my stuff to a new location. But that is just me.

I have even went out to one of my active baits, and found another hunter siting in my stand watching my bait! I was confused as hell. And the guy didn't think it was a big deal!

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by 270person

Is that what you do when you feel your rights on PUBLIC land have been infringed upon Dick?

I guess anyone behaving in the manner you've described would have to be confident I'm not within sightlines right?

Nope, not what I’d do, but I’m quite certain there’s individuals out there that would.

The mantra here is bad manners result in bad karma!

If ya wanna be that guy, fill your boots, my days of serious bear baiting are behind me, but don’t be whining when karma takes a chunk outta your hind end.

For the record I’ve never knowingly infringed or messed with anyone else’s bait sites, and yes I’ve had others contact me to see if I’m still running my bait sites, heck I made some very good acquaintances because these folks were respectful, and did the civil thing, by calling, or leaving notes.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

I have even went out to one of my active baits, and found another hunter siting in my stand watching my bait! I was confused as hell. And the guy didn't think it was a big deal!

Was probably 270, public land you know.....

[Don_Parsons]

Our group is lucky since we're off grid.

Go long my friend,,, out of sight is out of mind.

Good times happen to those that put in the efforts.

Now if I just remember where my camp spot is. Ha

👍

[Sledhead71]

The erosion of simple "Respect" amongst our group is mind boggling.

Carry on dividing our group and dismantling our passion.

Best of luck to the next generation, they will need it.

[catnthehat]

Personally I would not go near an old bait site , because the previous hunter may be planning on coming back .
Lots of open country around!
Cat

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Dick284

You can’t make these types change Dave, so why waste your time trying to explain civil behaviour to them.

Oh, I know that they already think that they know everything. I'm just hoping that I can save some less experienced hunters from getting themselves into trouble when it's entirely avoidable. Taking a guy's bait site, however you want to justify it, has got to be the absolutely dumbest move ever. I can think of a hundred ways of getting back at someone that evicts you from your bait site. Why would anyone want to bring that upon themselves is beyond me. No "Bush smarts" and probably no "Street smarts" either.

[AndrewM]

It is similar to this situation:
If you have a neighbor that parks in front of their house on the street all the time where the snow is nicely shoveled yet you beat them home from work, would you park in their spot just because you can? Or would you park down the street and shovel your own spot where there are plenty of spaces not being used?

Just move on. Plenty of space.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Guy is breaking the law, he has no rights.

Grizz

With all due respect Grizz, I don't think that's exactly the right approach. Not saying permanent built stands are legal but knowing where someone has or is hunting bears and then setting up next to them just because they've went outside the bounds of legality in my opinion isn't right either.

[obsessed1]

I like still /spot and stalk hunting bears in the general area of established baits. Makes it easier to find the bears.scared0018:

Lol not really. Only bears I shoot are the trouble makers that keep coming around the yard.

[Alberta Separatist]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

It’s early April and because the fella hasn’t been out there yet people are calling it abandoned? Yeah, he abandoned it all winter.

All those hectares of land to make a bait site but noooooo, let’s take one that’s already made for us because it’s public land and the tree stand is illegal. First come first served right? Anyone that thinks that way deserves whatever happens to them and I won’t have an ounce of sympathy for them. Smarten up!

X2

[Nyksta]

.

[Joe Black]

Crown land. Leaving structures/equipment/improving is illegal unless you have a permit to do so. I do believe you need to post Permit details if you have one.

Doing improvements or leaving structures Will ward off others from using that spot. Period.

WRONG. Don't be that guy, and if you are, you are also showing no respect for others.

So don't get jazzed if someone sets up Where you have also been at one time.

The solution is, if you want your spot, Get there early and set up early EVERY YEAR. Won't ever have a problem if you do that.

Having someone use your set up you have put up fresh EVERY YEAR is another story.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Baiting bears is not illegal. The expectation is that someone will nurture a site- most likely for many years. To think you can show up and throw a barrel beside another guys is completely stupid.
This has nothing to do with a permanent stand. That is illegal. Keeping a mess past the season is illegal- we all get that. Pretty easy to tell where a bait site is and to stay away from it, even after a guy had lugged his barrels and garbage out.


End of discussion.

No, the stand is illegal, end of discussion.

Grizz

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

No, the stand is illegal, end of discussion.

Grizz

Nobody cares about the stand. It’s completely moot. Baiting a previous bait site is the problem here. Not the stand

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Nobody cares about the stand. It’s completely moot. Baiting a previous bait site is the problem here. Not the stand

You are wrong! I care just like any other person using the back country and do not like seeing some hunters last year's permanent stand. Hunters have a responsibility to clean up the baiting site and return it to a natural state. This particular site still has "stuff" that is not in compliance with the clean up.

Baiting changes may be be coming to help determine who has what rights on what bait site. This excerpt is taken from the management plan for black bears...

"In the future, the Department may also place additional restrictions on the types or amount of bait that can be used, in order to address concerns that baiting may lead to human-food conditioning or alter bear population dynamics. The Department will also consider requiring registration of baiting locations at the local Fish and Wildlife office in order to assist with compliance enforcement and reduce conflicts between hunters."

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Nobody cares about the stand. It’s completely moot. Baiting a previous bait site is the problem here. Not the stand

If all the gear is removed at the end of last season, like it’s supposed to be, how would you know that it was even a bait station?

1. If it’s this years bait...leave it the hell alone and don’t set up close to it, even if you’re an outfitter.

2. Leave no trash (stands, barrels, assorted garbage) on crown land. Clean up your bait station at the end of the season.

3. If you do leave your garbage from last year don’t expect to have that serve as notice that “it’s your site. Because it sure as hell isnt your site.

4. Anyone who messes with my vehicle etc. Because they don’t understand the above had better be prepared for more than “karma” that’s a promise.

[Jays toyz]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Nobody cares about the stand. It’s completely moot. Baiting a previous bait site is the problem here. Not the stand

Agreed.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by bitterrootfly

Move on

Hey your back!

[Steyr Luxus]

CROWN LANDS ACT
Removal of structure
39 (1) Where a structure is on Crown lands in respect of which there is not in effect a lease or permit issued pursuant to this Act or a structure is placed on Crown lands by a person who is not the holder of a lease or permit issued pursuant to this Act, the Minister may, by written notice, require the person who erected or occupies or uses the structure to remove it from Crown lands within sixty days after service of the notice upon that person.

(2) A notice given pursuant to subsection (1) may be served upon the person to whom it is directed by delivering it to that person personally or, where that person cannot conveniently be served personally, by leaving it at that person's last or most usual place of residence with a person who is apparently not under sixteen years of age.

(3) Where the identity of a person to whom a notice may be directed pursuant to subsection (1) is unknown to the Minister, the Minister may cause notice requiring the removal of the structure to be posted in a conspicuous place on the structure.

(4) A person upon whom a notice pursuant to subsection (1) has been served pursuant to this Section who fails to remove the structure from Crown lands within sixty days of service is guilty of an offence.

(5) Where a notice pursuant to subsection (1) has been served or posted and the structure has not been removed from Crown lands within sixty days of the service or posting, the Minister or any person acting by or under the Minister's authority may remove the structure, together with the contents contained therein or demolish the structure in any manner that the Minister considers expedient and the costs and expenses of the removal or demolition may be recovered by the Minister in a court of competent jurisdiction in any action for debt on behalf of the Crown against any person who erected, occupied or used the structure. R.S., c. 114, s. 39.

Cutting or removing resources prohibited
29 (1) No person shall cut or remove timber or other resources on or from Crown lands unless that person is expressly authorized to do so pursuant to this Act or the regulations.

(2) In addition to a penalty imposed for a violation of subsection (1), the court may order a person convicted of an offence pursuant to this Section to restore the land to a condition as near as practicable as it was before the offence was committed and pay an amount equal to twice the market value of the property cut, damaged or removed. R.S., c. 114, s. 29.

Fuelwood cutting area
30 (1) The Minister may designate an area of Crown lands as a fuelwood cutting area or as an area for a use the Minister deems appropriate.

(2) The Minister may issue a permit to remove timber and other resources from an area designated pursuant to subsection (1) provided they are to be used for domestic purposes and not for resale.

(3) No permit issued pursuant to this Section shall be for a period in excess of one year or renewed for a longer period than twelve months at any one time. R.S., c. 114, s. 30.

I have personally seen tree stands in place which have been served with notice to remove as per 39 (1) subsequently it was removed with contents seized 39 (5) with costs recovered for removal by the crown. The individual was identified by the posted WIN number used on a bear bait.

[TBark]

Good thread actually.
If I/ you were the previous hunter at that bait, what should be done ?
I would leave a laminated note from the previous year, saying this is an established bait site, and I will be back on aprx Apr 20 following year.
As for a stand, you wouldn’t leave a portable one, so maybe these wooden permanent stands should be pulled or collapsed, tied to the base of the tree or at leased have the decks removed so they don’t fit the description of a stand.
This to be technically legal, but there is a diff between making it obvious to other hunters and legal to the wording of the rules.
Rules seem to be saying make it apparent it’s an abandoned site, Make it obvious that it will be in use I say, so how is that done within the rules, use a note.
Leafs look good tonight.

TBark

[270person]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Nope, not what I’d do, but I’m quite certain there’s individuals out there that would.

The mantra here is bad manners result in bad karma!

If ya wanna be that guy, fill your boots, my days of serious bear baiting are behind me, but don’t be whining when karma takes a chunk outta your hind end.

For the record I’ve never knowingly infringed or messed with anyone else’s bait sites, and yes I’ve had others contact me to see if I’m still running my bait sites, heck I made some very good acquaintances because these folks were respectful, and did the civil thing, by calling, or leaving notes.

I follow the rules Dick and the only one broken here was a tree stand still up after the season was over. It's also illegal as far as I understand things.

Unfortunately leaving a tree stand in place is not equivalent to a "Reserved" sign. That doesnt exist on crown land. Not on consecutive days let alone years. Simple solution is for Mr treestand to find pvt land he can hunt. When you hunt crown all bets are off.

Not that it matters but I'm as civil a guy as you'll meet when hunting Dick. The pvt land I have permission on and utilize most allows two other regulars on as well. Those gentlemen have had their permission for a lot longer than I have. I know the areas they hunt and stay well away so as not to interfere. I solo hunt and they didn't even know I was there last fall until they heard my shot and came screaming up on their quads to make sure it wasn't some walk on doing the shooting. Helped me load my buck then the rest of that day i walked bush for them to help move a moose.

As far as karma? What karma? For following the law? Someone wants to mess with me when they're the ones being illegal? Go for it. Karma can work two ways.

I don't care much for people who leave their junk behind on public land Dick. Build a ground blind out of what's ample on hand. Scatter it when you're done. If you don't you're no different than the slugs leaving beer cans behind.

In the meantime I'm just a happy guy having access to thousands of acres of pvt land each year so I don't have to put up with crown clowns.

[270person]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Nobody cares about the stand. It’s completely moot. Baiting a previous bait site is the problem here. Not the stand

I care. You get po'd when you see garbage left behind in the wild? No difference. If you brought it in, take it out. Pretty simple rule.