Caliber selection

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by justinO

Once again we cant answer a simple question. I think the problem here is that in fact it is not a campus. And Opinion is only for arguments that will never end. Facts are Facts. I specifically said eliminate all variables if you go back and read my post. I assumed you would take that as you would be using the same bullet. But now to clarify using the same bullet in both loads what would the answer be?
Every time someone responds to what I say they always try switching something first it was accuracy the smaller calibers shoot better because of the recoil. then it was the bigger caliber is to heavy to carry, then it was too loud, so I switched to a machine shooting the gun.
I understand for some people it might not be the best choice I get that all I want is someone to look at the simple facts and have the guts to say yes the bigger calibers produce more energy down range and for the most part unless certain circumstances the damage should be greater if you gut shot an animal then it wont really matter but if you hit the front shoulder it will. Its a fact not fiction. Can you kill things with a 270 30-06 7mm 300 win mag Absolutely BUT an anti aircraft 50 cal will do more damage its simple more energy is more energy.

And you commented to me that ''this post was getting crazy''
OH boy....
You'll learn... I learned about 300 and some posts ago that you can beat this one to death.

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

And you commented to me that ''this post was getting crazy''
OH boy....
You'll learn... I learned about 300 and some posts ago that you can beat this one to death.

Yes I guess I should have learned awhile ago. If you believe a 270 will do more damage then a Barret 50 cal I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I think those things penetrate armored tanks while pushing over 11000 foot pounds of energy but im sure they would have trouble with a bear

[Outcast]

The only thing that has taken smaller calibers into a solid elk moose type rifle is bullet technology. I highly doubt that anyone here in todays day and age of hunting, where elk don't stand stupid in the open for you. Where people work crazy hours at work to get a few days off and possibly only one crack at there perspective game animal. I f it weren't for advents like the Barnes TSX I highly doubt people would think so highly of there 270 Winchester if all they had was a Sierra BT.

Load up a 270 Winchester with a 130 or 150 grain Sierria BT and a 338 with a 215 or 250 grain BT and then pick your medicine.

i completely agree with where you are going JustinO. There is just no way to get there on a forum.

[Arn?Narn.]

I have shot quite a few bears, 30/30... 45/70....7mm-08....

put the bullet in the right place and things work out.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by justinO

What Are you getting at here? I am no physics major but I am a kinesiology major in my Sr year so I deal more with biology courses but have taken my gen ed science courses as well. I am taking an astronomy course as we speak and it deals with physics a lot so am I Isaac Newton NO but I do have a humble understanding.
So I take it you are intelligent in this field so please answer me this simple question. And I will try to eliminate all variables so it can be as easy of an answer as possible.
What will produce the most energy/ damage into a gelatin block shot from a machine in a lab setting a 338 lapua with a 200 grain bullet or a 270 with a 130 gr bullet both at max safe loads?

I think if a bear was a piece of gelatin then the lab test would go to prove your theory. Reread surhuntsalot's post.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by justinO

Yes I guess I should have learned awhile ago. If you believe a 270 will do more damage then a Barret 50 cal I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I think those things penetrate armored tanks while pushing over 11000 foot pounds of energy but im sure they would have trouble with a bear

Geez...thanks Mr.Newton for giving me an ''opinion'' that I haven't expressed yet.
Have you had training in psychic's as well ?

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Geez...thanks Mr.Newton for giving me an ''opinion'' that I haven't expressed yet.
Have you had training in psychic's as well ?

Mountain guy I was only trying to agree with you about that fact that I should have stopped posting 300 posts ago because this argument will never end thats why i quoted you. I just kept writing on the same quote but now that I see it yes it looks like I was saying it is your opinion personally I did not intend for that I'm sorry.
I was just saying to the whole thread that if that is your opinion then fine. So I am sorry if it came across wrong. And I am sorry to anyone if you get offended from these forums I will say once again a smaller caliber is capable of killing anything. I just find it hard to say something able to push a heavier bullet at faster speeds with more energy will do less damage with the same bullets..

[3Dshooter]

Gettin' real old, real fast!

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

Your degree of damage intrigues me. Can you please quantify how much more damage a 338 does when compared with the 270? I assume you have killed many head of game with both.

Yes ... do u think a larger caliber , bullet grain and speed can cause more "wound channel"...

[Pines]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

Having been a Big Game Guide for almost 20 years, I have seen more bears meet their demise than most will ever see. I have also seen first hand results of damage done to tissue by different calibers. The idea that "bigger is better" is not always true. Bullet construction, and shot placement are two of the biggest factors. I had two bears taken on the same night. One fellow was using a .375 H&H with 300 grain bullets, the other hunter was using a .270 win with 130 grain ballistic tips. Both shots were about 40 yards, and you would not believe the hole the .270 put in that bear, while the .375 had a hole the size of a dime going in, and about the size of a loonie goung out. The sectional density and bullet construction play a huge role in the expansion, and tissue damage. You may have a cartrige that has more than double the muzzle energy, but if the bullet passes through the remaining energy is lost. So, if your .338 puts 2,300 .ft.lbs of energy into your target before the bullet exits, how different is that from a .270 putting 2,300 ft.lbs int a target.

Kinda like on the "Best Of The West" where if a single shot from a 6.5-284 can drop a bull elk in his tracks at 700 yards, why would a simmilar sized bull elk run almost 300 yards after a shot trough the vitals at 150 yards with a .300 Win Mag ?

Energy on target or HOLES...Traps..what do u think its a about??? Ballistic tips ? for bears and you seem OK to promote...

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Pines

Yes ... do u think a larger caliber , bullet grain and speed can cause more "wound channel"...

The variables are FAR greater than bullet diameter. Two of the biggest are bullet construction and where that bullet lands.

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

The variables are FAR greater than bullet diameter. Two of the biggest are bullet construction and where that bullet lands.

so all being equal ..the larger bullet wins ..does this mean that ur 30-06 does not equal then 338 in penetration and wound channel ?? or should u trade ur 30-06 for a 243 ?? just askin

[aulrich]

Oddly I have hunted both with a 338 win mag and 270 win the 270 does no where near the damage as the 338 unless really stiff 338 bullets are being used.

The day I decided to "down grade" to 270 was when I shot a whitetail buck at about 150 ish face on 200 gr Nosler bt's. the exit wound out of the hind quarter was bigger than my fist, after going the full lenght.

The year after I had the 270 using plain old 130 lead tipped sierra's still kills them dead but I would not shoot a griz with one. For the most part magnums are over used, but if I was going griz hunting the 338 is the one joining me on the trip.

I'd be checking my shorts after this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

[Pines]

Originally Posted by aulrich

Oddly I have hunted both with a 338 win mag and 270 win the 270 does no where near the damage as the 338 unless really stiff 338 bullets are being used.

The day I decided to "down grade" to 270 was when I shot a whitetail buck at about 150 ish face on 200 gr Nosler bt's. the exit wound out of the hind quarter was bigger than my fist, after going the full lenght.

The year after I had the 270 using plain old 130 lead tipped sierra's still kills them dead but I would not shoot a griz with one. For the most part magnums are over used, but if I was going griz hunting the 338 is the one joining me on the trip.

I'd be checking my shorts after this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

nothing odd about that at all >>>u got it right ..A 270 ballistic tip may just BLOW a bear AWAY and u should sell ur 338...just kidding ..get a 30-06

[Pines]

Originally Posted by Pines

nothing odd about that at all >>>u got it right ..A 270 ballistic tip may just BLOW a bear AWAY and u should sell ur 338...just kidding ..get a 30-06

Geez ...kidding agian ..30-06 is slow and old sorry but true ...

[gitrdun]

Ok, so if you fellows that can easily handle the task wish to go with a .22lr or a .243 or .270 for that matter, by all means go for it. Just go easy on those of us that can handle magnum size recoil, just 'cause you were born with an excess of estrogen or a whimpy shoulder. Maybe you ought to stick with spray cans and do your best work on railroad cars, far less recoil.

[justinO]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Ok, so if you fellows that can easily handle the task wish to go with a .22lr or a .243 or .270 for that matter, by all means go for it. Just go easy on those of us that can handle magnum size recoil, just 'cause you were born with an excess of estrogen or a whimpy shoulder. Maybe you ought to stick with spray cans and do your best work on railroad cars, far less recoil.

Wow your in for it man... I was being as nice as possible yesterday on this thread trying to get people to just agree that a berret 50 cal would do more damage than a 270 and I got attacked from all sides.. Ur dead meat Im outta here

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

I have shot quite a few bears, 30/30... 45/70....7mm-08....

put the bullet in the right place and things work out.

And when the bullet doesn't quite go in the right place, does caliber make any difference at all?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

And when the bullet doesn't quite go in the right place, does caliber make any difference at all?

Sure does

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Ok, so if you fellows that can easily handle the task wish to go with a .22lr or a .243 or .270 for that matter, by all means go for it. Just go easy on those of us that can handle magnum size recoil, just 'cause you were born with an excess of estrogen or a whimpy shoulder. Maybe you ought to stick with spray cans and do your best work on railroad cars, far less recoil.

And that my friend is exactly why the subject is so divisive.

It's not that the big guns don't do the job better. It's this attitude of do it my way or go home.
You may not realize it but you come across as being terribly condescending.
As if shooting the big calibers somehow makes you superior.

I doubt that is your intent. Never-the-less it is what it is.

I can't speak for others. I can speak from my experience.
There was a time when I didn't mind the kick of the big guns. That was a long time ago. I paid my dues. I took my licks, and kicks. I'll be damned if I will grant you or any other fool superior status, because you think my choice of firearms makes me inferior.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Sure does

That's sort of what I've been thinking. On good shots I get it. But if you accidently gut shoot something or don't quite pull off that double lung shot, it seems to me that you might have a better chance of getting the animal down or at least tracking the blood trail if you used a larger caliber. I'm open to being wrong, but it seems logical.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

And when the bullet doesn't quite go in the right place, does caliber make any difference at all?

Hardly, though I do admit to not thinking about "best cartridge for gut shots" when putting together a rifle.

In fact, I watched a guy put a 25 WSSM slug in the guts of a Bull Moose a few days back and the poor thing stood there and let him blow off his bottom jaw for good measure. I walked away muttering something about shooting a 338 WM if your aiming for the guts.

Does anyone have any actual experience proving the "bigger the better"?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by chuck

Does anyone have any actual experience proving the "bigger the better"?

Come on Chuck, in a recent survey of 50 women.................
I think you know where I'm going from here.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Come on Chuck, in a recent survey of 50 women.................
I think you know where I'm going from here.

Ron Jeremy just lose his endorsement deal to MTi? LOL

[Pathfinder76]

About what I expected.

[Arn?Narn.]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

And when the bullet doesn't quite go in the right place, does caliber make any difference at all?

depends on the animal, bullet construction, etc etc.

In my experience, the 30/30 has been an ideal round for me.
Perhaps my experience shooting it has more to do with it, as I know what I can and can't and will and won't do.

170 grains at about 1800 fps at 200 yrds. seems adequate enough for me, but then again I have not encountered the bionic animals of late.

I don't choose my bullets, calibres or anything else, based on how they perform on a fowl shot.

Big Overhyped, over gimmicked, over marketed rifles.

They are supplemental rifles, and we all know where the deficit lay.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by chuck

Hardly, though I do admit to not thinking about "best cartridge for gut shots" when putting together a rifle.

In fact, I watched a guy put a 25 WSSM slug in the guts of a Bull Moose a few days back and the poor thing stood there and let him blow off his bottom jaw for good measure. I walked away muttering something about shooting a 338 WM if your aiming for the guts.

Does anyone have any actual experience proving the "bigger the better"?

Come on Chuck, do you really believe that? Let's take for example a poor shot on an elk. Little far ahead and you have a front shoulder shot. You're telling me that two equally well contructed bullets like a Partition, one out of say your beloved 30/06 and another out of a 340 wtby, that there won't be a difference in damage? There's a pretty big gap there in energy wouldn't you say? I know what I would put my money on to do more damage and perhaps slow the animal down for a second shot. I wonder if you truly believe your theory, or is it that you just can't shoot a large caliber magnum comfortably and with any degree of accuracy? I will never condemn an individual for not being comfortable shooting a large magnum, but I am often left wondering why those that can handle it get bashed so bad by those that can't.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by justinO

Wow your in for it man... I was being as nice as possible yesterday on this thread trying to get people to just agree that a berret 50 cal would do more damage than a 270 and I got attacked from all sides.. Ur dead meat Im outta here

Now your gettin it !!
See...it took you a little while but you came around...
I learned the hard way like your learning...
Way to many variables and opinions to allow for a clear cut winner.
In the mean time this will continually be beat to a fine pulp...

[sbtennex]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

And when the bullet doesn't quite go in the right place, does caliber make any difference at all?

Absolutely. Bigger longer bullets have the sectional density plus the mass plus the frontal area to penetrate from odd angles and through tougher resistance period. It's why a .243 ain't the best choice for chasing big whitetails unless you know to pick your shots and can execute them. Not to invite the inevitable "I beg to differ" but there ain't such a thing as "too dead". You owe it to what you kill to do it as humanely and quickly as is reasonable and if I had to have just one gun for all big game that's why it would be a 300 mag, any version, unless I included grizzly. Then there's no such thing as too big a bore and a .338 would be first choice for all.

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

Hardly, though I do admit to not thinking about "best cartridge for gut shots" when putting together a rifle.

In fact, I watched a guy put a 25 WSSM slug in the guts of a Bull Moose a few days back and the poor thing stood there and let him blow off his bottom jaw for good measure. I walked away muttering something about shooting a 338 WM if your aiming for the guts.

Does anyone have any actual experience proving the "bigger the better"?

Chuck if you can make a fact that your 30-06 kills as good as a 338 then it too should seem right that a 243 will out perform ur 06 if its all about holes and not the size of them .... really think about it !!! A 270 ballistic tip out performing a 375 and there's a reference to how good the post is, are u saying you can't shoot a 338 properly ...DUH ......lol