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11-01-2010, 09:59 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbtennex
Absolutely. Bigger longer bullets have the sectional density plus the mass plus the frontal area to penetrate from odd angles and through tougher resistance period. It's why a .243 ain't the best choice for chasing big whitetails unless you know to pick your shots and can execute them. Not to invite the inevitable "I beg to differ" but there ain't such a thing as "too dead". You owe it to what you kill to do it as humanely and quickly as is reasonable and if I had to have just one gun for all big game that's why it would be a 300 mag, any version, unless I included grizzly. Then there's no such thing as too big a bore and a .338 would be first choice for all.
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finally someone on the RIGHT track ...making holes from bad angles and not the perfect broadside shot with smaller calibers....
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11-01-2010, 10:10 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbtennex
Absolutely. Bigger longer bullets have the sectional density plus the mass plus the frontal area to penetrate from odd angles and through tougher resistance period. It's why a .243 ain't the best choice for chasing big whitetails unless you know to pick your shots and can execute them. Not to invite the inevitable "I beg to differ" but there ain't such a thing as "too dead". You owe it to what you kill to do it as humanely and quickly as is reasonable and if I had to have just one gun for all big game that's why it would be a 300 mag, any version, unless I included grizzly. Then there's no such thing as too big a bore and a .338 would be first choice for all.
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So then the purpose of the "big" guns is so that you don't have to be so picky?
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11-01-2010, 10:16 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
So then the purpose of the "big" guns is so that you don't have to be so picky?
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answer that yourself ...would u BE more selective ? with a 243 vs a 338 for angle and even distance ??? or does a 270 ballistic tip out hammer a 375 ????
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11-01-2010, 10:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
So then the purpose of the "big" guns is so that you don't have to be so picky?
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it just means a larger faster caliber and bullet can PENETRATE better than a smaller one ...if bullet contruction allows
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11-01-2010, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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All I can speak of is experience.
I don't own a 300 WM or a 338 or 325 WSM
Not that I have something against them, Just haven't gotten around to it, and since they fill a gap that never existed, I may never own one...or I might, just for variety.
I have shot a 30/30 for about 90% of all my hunting. I have never had issues. Suggesting a .243 is small for big whitetails seems a bit crazy for me, but if your idea of hunting is Texas heart shots on running animals at 300 yrds, well...maybe it is.
A bigger gun does not make a better hunter.
The shots I pass on with my 7mm-08, are not because it's a 7mm-08,
If I were carrying a 300 WM I'd pass on the same shots.
Might be a lesson in there for some....
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11-01-2010, 10:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
it just means a larger faster caliber and bullet can PENETRATE better than a smaller one ...if bullet contruction allows
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A shoot a pretty slow 45/70 load...it will penetrate stem to stern.
I am content with penetrating to the heart and lungs and collecting my animal within a few yards.
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11-01-2010, 10:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
A shoot a pretty slow 45/70 load...it will penetrate stem to stern.
I am content with penetrating to the heart and lungs and collecting my animal within a few yards.
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so if all your angles are perfect and penetration is not high on your list than WHY the 45-70 ..would"nt a 243 or balistic tip 270 be bettter ..lighter recoil more accurate for you to shoot ...
LARGER calibers Make deeper penetration and Larger wound CHannels...
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11-01-2010, 10:59 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Do you think I have shot Balck Bears with a 45/70 becasue it was "required"?
I don't need to be the person to poke holes in your logic, history does it quite fine.
I don't need a wound channel the size of a culvert to blow out a heart and two lungs
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11-01-2010, 11:02 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
so if all your angles are perfect and penetration is not high on your list than WHY the 45-70 ..would"nt a 243 or balistic tip 270 be bettter ..lighter recoil more accurate for you to shoot ...
LARGER calibers Make deeper penetration and Larger wound CHannels...
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What calibre do you use and what range are you comfortable shooting at?
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11-01-2010, 11:13 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Do you think I have shot Balck Bears with a 45/70 becasue it was "required"?
I don't need to be the person to poke holes in your logic, history does it quite fine.
I don't need a wound channel the size of a culvert to blow out a heart and two lungs
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great ....u at least know what a "wound channel" is and ARN nothing personal but the there seems to be a few that dare to say thier favorite 06 or 270 ballistic tip or 7mm-08 will do the same penetration and cause the same wound channel as a larger caliber,,, and that is ,,my firend,, pure nonsense...the SIZE of wound channel does dictate the killing power of a caliber...be real a 270 balistic tip taking down a grizzly better than a 375 pass thru(early in this thread) ..COME ON
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11-01-2010, 11:16 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Do you think I have shot Balck Bears with a 45/70 becasue it was "required"?
I don't need to be the person to poke holes in your logic, history does it quite fine.
I don't need a wound channel the size of a culvert to blow out a heart and two lungs
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why do u use the 45-7o and not the 30-30
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11-01-2010, 11:26 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Experience has a way of making things crystal clear and the "magnum" mindset is one of easiest to poke holes in. Regardless of the quarry.
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OH please explain and entertain me ..easy pokin with ur 30-06..I get it 
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11-01-2010, 11:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Get hit by a k car doing 100km/h or a semi doing 100 km/h results are the same.
Many big magnums and large bore get into the realm of diminishing returns for a lot of hunters.
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11-01-2010, 11:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traps
Ever come across someone saying "good for anything in North America except the big bears" when someone talks about what cartridge to choose. Do you really need a magnum or a big cartridge to dispatch a grizzley or is it the biggest farce going? Me thinks its a farce, give it a minimum of 140 grains and a velocity window of 2500-3000 fps and your good. What do you think?
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I think you a farce ..what makes a 140 grn min ?? experience ? what caliber ? what distance ? what angle ? how close you to your vehicle ??? why not a 25-06 120 grn ..will that not work or how about a 270 balistic tip...sounds like a killer to me ....
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11-01-2010, 11:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
why do u use the 45-7o and not the 30-30
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I like mixing it up...
45/70 can make an awful mess of a deer sometimes or even a bear
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No deader though...
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11-01-2010, 11:34 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Get hit by a k car doing 100km/h or a semi doing 100 km/h results are the same.
Many big magnums and large bore get into the realm of diminishing returns for a lot of hunters.
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u right ARn but they WORK ...does ur 45-70 get ur attention..if so why U SHOOT IT
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11-01-2010, 11:41 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Get hit by a k car doing 100km/h or a semi doing 100 km/h results are the same.
Many big magnums and large bore get into the realm of diminishing returns for a lot of hunters.
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oh ya ...a 308 is at 100 yds a 30-06 which at 200 yds and the 300 win mag at 300 yds ( they all  shoot the same BULLET )...wow now which is the ultimate bestest caliber..give me a break
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11-01-2010, 11:41 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
u right ARn but they WORK ...does ur 45-70 get ur attention..if so why U SHOOT IT
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????
Not sure if this statement, question, or....
Please clarify
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11-01-2010, 11:42 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
oh ya ...a 308 is at 100 yds a 30-06 which at 200 yds and the 300 win mag at 300 yds ( they all shoot the same BULLET )...wow now which is the ultimate bestest caliber..give me a break |
Based on this what do you think is the better calibre and why?
and again,..what calibre do you shoot and at what ranges?
Thanks
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11-01-2010, 11:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
????
Not sure if this statement, question, or....
Please clarify
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i THINK YOU SHOOT UR 45-70 and not the 30-30 WHY???..makes the small hole according to you and angle is not important
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11-01-2010, 11:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Based on this what do you think is the better calibre and why?
and again,..what calibre do you shoot and at what ranges?
Thanks
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what's the best caliber of these >>>>>>>hmmmmmmm.... they all the same NOT ???? 
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11-01-2010, 11:50 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
i THINK YOU SHOOT UR 45-70 and not the 30-30 WHY???..makes the small hole according to you and angle is not important
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see earlier response....
Variety...
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11-01-2010, 11:51 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
what's the best caliber of these >>>>>>>hmmmmmmm.... they all the same NOT ???? |
Goodnight.
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11-01-2010, 11:58 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,760
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No need to slam everyone Pines. What do you shoot ?
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11-01-2010, 11:58 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
Based on this what do you think is the better calibre and why?
and again,..what calibre do you shoot and at what ranges?
Thanks
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this is not whats better ..but I do trust diff cartridges for applications...I can use a 308-270-270wsm-7mmrem -300wm -325wsm ...however I like hunting over time with one GUN...............
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11-02-2010, 12:13 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pines
I think you a farce ..what makes a 140 grn min ?? experience ? what caliber ? what distance ? what angle ? how close you to your vehicle ??? why not a 25-06 120 grn ..will that not work or how about a 270 balistic tip...sounds like a killer to me .... |
Pines- why would you call someone a farce who posted something 2 days before you joined this forum ?
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11-02-2010, 12:20 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
Pines- why would you call someone a farce who posted something 2 days before you joined this forum ?
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keeping low on the radar would be better in not getting out-ed...
I said this JutstinCase anyone cares 
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11-02-2010, 12:26 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,760
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That was very funny !
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11-02-2010, 07:12 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,851
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SD means nothing, energy means less, and bullet construction means everything.
Like I said, I've hunted with 300's, 338's, and 375's. My ability to shoot is not suspect and because of what I've seen firsthand I see absolutely no reason to burn more powder, carry heavier rifles, and put up with more muzzle blast and recoil. That is based on my experience. So far not a single solitary one of you can back up what you say with anything of substance. But that is par for the course.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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11-02-2010, 07:52 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
SD means nothing, energy means less, and bullet construction means everything.
Like I said, I've hunted with 300's, 338's, and 375's. My ability to shoot is not suspect and because of what I've seen firsthand I see absolutely no reason to burn more powder, carry heavier rifles, and put up with more muzzle blast and recoil. That is based on my experience. So far not a single solitary one of you can back up what you say with anything of substance. But that is par for the course.
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I own and regularly shoot and hunt with...
-.243 win
-.270 Wby Mag
-.280 AI
-338 Lapua Mag
-.378 Wby Mag
I have guided and hunted for 20 years, and based my observations on over 500 + bears (which was the original species of this post)....
I would say that has to qualify as observed experience...
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