Can't pass up a Casino, sue the Govt.

[pikergolf]

'Nobody stopped me' at the casino: Ontario self-exclusion program fails to keep gambling addicts out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/self-e...icts-1.4438251

[Okotokian]

I am SO sick of "blame everyone else but myself".

I saw a story on the news last night about a Canadian that had moved with his family as a young boy to the states. later was jailed for a huge amount of time (like 100+ years) for a string of non-violent B&E's, served over 30 years and was finally released. He was returning to Canada (no idea why, his family is in the US). My first thought as I watched the story? "I wonder when he's going to sue the Canadian government for not doing enough to get him out". Sad.

[bat119]

Being on the banned list if he would have won a major prize he wouldn't have been able to collect then he would be complaining about that.
What's next?
Rosie O'Donnell will be suing because she can't pass a Dairy Queen without stopping for ice cream.

[covey ridge]

I feel sympathy for those with an addiction and I do think they need help. I do think help will only come with the addict recognizing that he/she has a problem and it will not go away. Help is not removing the addict to a desert island where there are no casinos or temptation. Help is not blocking doors so that the addict can not act on his /her desires. Help involves recognizing the insanity of repeating something that never does end well. Help involves learning that there is a choice not to enter those doors, but that choice is easier made way before the addict gets to those doors. Help involves having a place to go or people to be with that will not feed tempting thoughts.

I appreciate the gambling establishments are willing to help those that ask for help. I suspect that this addict really does not want to quit or maybe is not willing to work hard for his recovery and would rather have someone else to blame, for his poor choice.

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

.

I appreciate the gambling establishments are willing to help those that ask for help.

I don't think this is by choice, in Alberta it is law to make addiction counseling accessible in order to keep their liquor and gaming licenses. I imagine most other provinces have similar laws.

If there is a program in place and the casino staff failed to follow the program then the lawsuit should be directed at them, not the government. Similar to Alberta were for example if a bartender over serves a patron and the patron is injured before they become sober, the bartender can be held liable.

[Dewey Cox]

I worked casino security once upon a time.
There's a binder with the faces of probably around 500 people who are on the self exclusion list.
Everyone treated it as a joke. What are the chances of recognizing someone who's 2" square photograph was in a page of 30 other ones, in a binder with 30 other pages?
Only once did we find a guy, and it was because he had a huge head and distinctive face, and came into the casino every other day.
It was an interesting job, but paid less than what minimum wage is now. (I don't stay long).

[The Elkster]

I'll play devils advocate here. The gov't chooses to sanction casino's and take in big money on gambling knowing full well that many people have a problem with gambling and many people that gamble can't afford the habit. They do hold some responsibility here.

What would we do in this day and age if the gov't started promoting smoking and actively worked to grow the market? Both the buyer and seller have a hand in this stuff.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I'll play devils advocate here. The gov't chooses to sanction casino's and take in big money on gambling knowing full well that many people have a problem with gambling and many people that gamble can't afford the habit. They do hold some responsibility here.

What would we do in this day and age if the gov't started promoting smoking and actively worked to grow the market? Both the buyer and seller have a hand in this stuff.

Being the advocate of the devil's advocate here. I walk into 10 different bars and spend my rent money, who is responsible for my well being. I mean, I have a problem after all. Is it all 10 bars and the government that should be held responsible, or would a month or two of homelessness show me who was responsible?

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Being the advocate of the devil's advocate here. I walk into 10 different bars and spend my rent money, who is responsible for my well being. I mean, I have a problem after all. Is it all 10 bars and the government that should be held responsible, or would a month or two of homelessness show me who was responsible?

Bars no. Gov't somewhat. The gov't runs, regulates and profits from the whole shebang and they know there are significant problems with gambling. Their own programs show that. The gov't could very well implement a system that limits how much people could spend gambling if they really wanted to but that'd limit income hmmmm. How about regulating that you need a gov't issued cash card to play any AGLC games. Limit the amount that can be gambled using that card per day or per week or whatever. Give allowances for people to gamble more based on their income tax statements. We regulate and limit other addictive things do we not...prescriptions for one.

User also has some responsibility of course. That goes without saying. But I think we have to be realistic and do what we can to limit people's chances of destroying their lives. If gov't is going to profit from it they had better be prepared to deal with or limit the consequences as well.

[graybeard]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I'll play devils advocate here. The gov't chooses to sanction casino's and take in big money on gambling knowing full well that many people have a problem with gambling and many people that gamble can't afford the habit. They do hold some responsibility here.

What would we do in this day and age if the gov't started promoting smoking and actively worked to grow the market? Both the buyer and seller have a hand in this stuff.

....check with the new marijuana laws upcoming; if that is not promoting smoking then please educate me on what is?

Well known doctors state that while the brain is developing, usually up to age 25, no marijuana should ever be taken in.

Just sayin...

[Okotokian]

I don't think the government is "responsible" for addiction. However, as the licenser and profiteer off of gambling, drinking, and soon pot, they should put aside some of the profits for free treatment of addictions. While I don't know about the details, I believe this is being done. It's what AADAC does. If it needs more publicity or more money for better programs, so be it.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by graybeard

....check with the new marijuana laws upcoming; if that is not promoting smoking then please educate me on what is?

Well known doctors state that while the brain is developing, usually up to age 25, no marijuana should ever be taken in.

Just sayin...

Weed will have limits though and that is all I am suggesting for gambling. Limited in how much you can buy and how much you can grow and where you smoke it. Also a bit different in that gov't isn't monopolizing the market and promoting it solely for their own benefit nor will they be promoting it directly. They are allowing it because the majority of people want that right. Its always going to be a balancing act between rights of the individual Vs cost on society as a whole.

Another point is that weed has been around a long long time used by millions of people and that has proven that it is not addictive. Perhaps habit forming for some but not addictive in the way gambling or prescription drugs are. Not even close.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I don't think the government is "responsible" for addiction. However, as the licenser and profiteer off of gambling, drinking, and soon pot, they should put aside some of the profits for free treatment of addictions. While I don't know about the details, I believe this is being done. It's what AADAC does. If it needs more publicity or more money for better programs, so be it.

Recent research has shown that people who end up with gambling problems have changes in their brain chemistry that are very similar to what happens to people that are addicted to drugs like heroin. Current efforts like Self Exclusion are a joke.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...d-to-gambling/

[covey ridge]

I am a member of a not for profit organization that gets a good chunk of casino money. The only stipulation seems to be that they will not just give it to us and that we have to volunteer to work for it. It is the easiest work that I have ever done.

While I am there doing my volunteer thing I often run into some people that I know. Some are well off and can afford to be there but many I know can not afford to be there. I also note that there is not a lot of smiles or happy looks while they play their games. I see a lot of zombie like boredom as they sit at the tables or walk from slot to slot.

I think that there are more addicts out there that anyone, especially the government or the casino operators are wiling to admit. No one should be surprised when rent does not get paid and lives ruined.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I am a member of a not for profit organization that gets a good chunk of casino money. The only stipulation seems to be that they will not just give it to us and that we have to volunteer to work for it. It is the easiest work that I have ever done.

While I am there doing my volunteer thing I often run into some people that I know. Some are well off and can afford to be there but many I know can not afford to be there. I also note that there is not a lot of smiles or happy looks while they play their games. I see a lot of zombie like boredom as they sit at the tables or walk from slot to slot.

I think that there are more addicts out there that anyone, especially the government or the casino operators are wiling to admit. No one should be surprised when rent does not get paid and lives ruined.

Are these people you are seeing seniors? I use to attend a wine tasting event every year around Christmas in the local hotel. This hotel had a casino attached and I walked through it every year. The slots were absolutely depressing. The poker table and the blackjack tables had very animated players. But the slots, OMG, it was like these people had checked out on life.

[CaberTosser]

I used to have one casino as a regular client in Calgary, back when smoking was still allowed in them. I would often have to perform my repairs prior to the place opening and I found it rather sad that every single day there were people outside lined up waiting for the place to open. I always wanted to pop home & shower after calls there as I smelled like an ashtray whenever I left the place.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Are these people you are seeing seniors? I use to attend a wine tasting event every year around Christmas in the local hotel. This hotel had a casino attached and I walked through it every year. The slots were absolutely depressing. The poker table and the blackjack tables had very animated players. But the slots, OMG, it was like these people had checked out on life.

That is the thing that bothers me. So many of the people gambling should not be gambling and are putting themselves in the poorhouse because of it and the gov't is enabling because MONEY. Sure the gov't gains but on the backs of those who can least afford it (and the gov't darn well knows it). But its hard to watch. I'm all for making money and personal responsibility but at some point one has to say "money be dammed I'm going to put personal interests aside and do the right thing here".

Or gov't could just say hey we know lots of people with little money that have a weakness for meth so we'll just tweak the rules and open up a gov't meth market and profit off their obvious weakness and addiction. I mean they have the choice to buy or not right? Live and learn sukka's

[normstad]

I know one person who works as a gambling addiction counselor. She is as addicted as her "clients". It's horrible to watch, but she calls it "research".

[CBintheNorth]

I want to sue the government too, but not for anything that I did...

[Ranets]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Being the advocate of the devil's advocate here. I walk into 10 different bars and spend my rent money, who is responsible for my well being. I mean, I have a problem after all. Is it all 10 bars and the government that should be held responsible, or would a month or two of homelessness show me who was responsible?

This exactly, at what point did our taxes and the government become responsible for peoples poor choices and lack of inhibitions.

[wildbill]

Our own government is no different than a bunch of drug dealers, they make money off of peoples, pain, misfortune, addiction, and suffering, through the sale of alcohol, tobacco and,use of gambling establishments to collect tax dollars. Our government is a bunch of crooked cons, liars and thieves, Trudeau is the pinnacle of the ladder.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Are these people you are seeing seniors? I use to attend a wine tasting event every year around Christmas in the local hotel. This hotel had a casino attached and I walked through it every year. The slots were absolutely depressing. The poker table and the blackjack tables had very animated players. But the slots, OMG, it was like these people had checked out on life.

The slots was where the most depressed looking people were. Not a lot of seniors. There were a lot of middle aged ladies, often made up and dressed to the nines wearing lots of gold or imitation gold (can't tell the difference) and wandering around like zombies looking bored to death.

[Unregistered user]

So do smokers sue the gubmint next? Drinkers too?

[brslk]

From the article: "Governments should be in the business of not exploiting the people, but serving the people, and it's hard to see how they're serving the people by disproportionately taking money from that vulnerable segment."

That pretty much includes taxes on everything doesn't it?

Wanna stop ridiculous lawsuits like the ones filed by people who can't control themselves?
Implement a 90% tax on the money won in non-injury lawsuits. Injury lawsuits are already pretty regulated here unlike American style justice.
No payday for hurt feelings and stupid decisions.

No one will sue anyone and no lawyer will take a case if it won't be worth their time.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I'll play devils advocate here. The gov't chooses to sanction casino's and take in big money on gambling knowing full well that many people have a problem with gambling and many people that gamble can't afford the habit. They do hold some responsibility here.

What would we do in this day and age if the gov't started promoting smoking and actively worked to grow the market? Both the buyer and seller have a hand in this stuff.

End of the day you have/had the choice....no one else's fault.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by wildbill

Our own government is no different than a bunch of drug dealers, they make money off of peoples, pain, misfortune, addiction, and suffering, through the sale of alcohol, tobacco and,use of gambling establishments to collect tax dollars. Our government is a bunch of crooked cons, liars and thieves, Trudeau is the pinnacle of the ladder.

Yes the gov't actively preys on the stupid and absolves itself by offering meaningless lip servicing useless counselling programs that have an extremely high rate of failure designed in..They don't really want these programs to succeed, the casinos and one armed bandits would sit vacant, nobody would buy lottery tickets..

Blows me away everytime I get behind a lottery ticket junky when they are checking their wad of tickets in a store line up.

[.257Weatherby]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

'Nobody stopped me' at the casino: Ontario self-exclusion program fails to keep gambling addicts out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/self-e...icts-1.4438251

We got them here in BC.

They self exclude and if they win jackpots they can not claim them.
Well, they can try to get paid.

Buddy ws playing last week and the guy hit $1500.00 next to him.
My buddy was winning and loosing and winning, anyways the guy says hey I gotta go and have a ''bowel movement can you claim this for me''? (trying to be polite)
Anyways, my buddy says sure...cashier comes over and takes the info and comes back with cash and a manager.

Manager questions Bob about who was playing the machine ...a couple minutes of conversation and the Casino reluctantly pays the mini jackpot.

Now, Bob is concerned cause the guy isnt back and the questions where enough to cause him concern he maybe into something he doesnt want any part of..

Anyways, the guy comes back 20 minutes later and asks for the money flips Bob 50 for his troubles and leaves.

Later that night another manager comes along and informs Bob that the transaction is on CCTV and that he realy shouldnt be claiming other peoples money for his own safety and the the safety of others.

The guy is a well know poor player and has been self excluded and now banned from the River Rock.

Anyways we all know the game is in favor of the house and only take what one can afford to loose.

300K and still trying to get his money back, well maybe he should just go back to work and try to earn it the hard way.

Rob

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by .257Weatherby

300K and still trying to get his money back, well maybe he should just go back to work and try to earn it the hard way.
Rob

Many that gamble think it is easy money but the deck favors the house and it is very hard to ever be ahead of the house.

Working at a job seems hard for some but in the long run it is the easiest way to make and keep money.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Many that gamble think it is easy money but the deck favors the house and it is very hard to ever be ahead of the house.

Working at a job seems hard for some but in the long run it is the easiest way to make and keep money.

That particular fellow does work and cashes his pay check to gamble. He very well could be a hard working guy.

[Unregistered user]

Every time we don't play we win.