My letter to Shannon Phillips

[leeelmer]

Good Afternoon Honourable Minister Shannon Phillips
I have a concern associated with the current and past governments position on APOS,(Alberta Professional Outfitters Society)
Currently under the laws, they are a self regulating and self disciplining body. This is a lot like having the fox guard the chicken coop.
Their current board and past presidents have and are convicted wildlife poachers, and have been convicted of many wildlife offences.
They have never in their current history ever disciplined a member(guide or outfitter) never pulled a guides licence or outfitters licence, when convicted of a wildlife crime. And many of their members in good standing have had over 100 convictions.
I have spoken to many members of Fish and Wildlife enforcement, and they are very upset that the previous governments had taken away Fish and Wildlife’s ability to discipline the members of APOS.
I believe you and your government can do better for us the people of Alberta and the wildlife that we all enjoy in Alberta.
How on earth can you be a member in good standing with no disiplen once convicted of charges of wildlife crimes.
I am not saying all guides and outfitters are bad, but you would think that once a guide or a outfitter is charged and convicted, of hunting out of season, with out the correct tags, trespassing and the like they should loose there licence? Has APOS ever removed a guides licence or outfitter licence?
They claim in there name that they are Professionals, should they not be held to that standard?
We need the NDP to make a big change here, change this so that Fish and Wildlife Enforcement has the power, not there own people.

If we look at the flip side, If I am charged and convicted of poaching a white tail deer, do you believe I should be the one to decide if I ever get to hunt again? No that would be silly. The court with the recommendation of the Fish and Wildlife Enforcement branch makes that decision.

I am asking you and the NDP to be different than the past 40 years of Conservative governments.
Thanks for taking the time to read my email.
Sincerely Lee Forster


What are your guys thoughts?
I am not a NDP supporter at all, but something has to be done.

[Tiguy]

x2!!! Good place to start. Apos is a fraud.

[blueice123]

Yes good start we see , thanks to to send letter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dicknormal]

I guess good on you. Did you write the Conservatives on your thoughts while they were in power? I do believe any letters to Shannon Phillips from the concerned outdoors crowd will fall on deaf ears,. That and she needs big simple pictures to comprehend.

[leeelmer]

Yes I wrote the conservatives before several times,
I got back, a canned message that APOS is self regulating and it works better because there is less gov involvement.
What a joke.
But I am no NDP supporter, but as witnessed this year, Shannon Phillips changed the cost of tags for seniors because one man mentioned to her at a dinner function. So I can be hopeful she will read it. I have no illusions that it will go anywhere, but if we don't do something status quo will continue.

[nast70]

I honestly think Phillips will act on this. I think she would see there is a common interest between her typical tree hugger supports and the outdoor crowd. It would be a rare instance where 2 usually opposing groups can work together to bring some positive change to both sides of an issue.
It would put her in a positive light to all, why wouldn't she take action?

[MooseRiverTrapper]

F&W has the power to charge APOS members. Where did the rumour come from that they don’t lol? Currently APOS has been matching penalties dealt by F&W.

Love the misinformed outfitter bashing thread though. What percentage of residents charged per year?

[West O'5]

I’m guessing she would be on board from an ideological standpoint and see it as an opportunity to be some sort of champion of wildlife and wild spaces that she fancies herself as,therefore any opportunity to take a stab at the big bad outfitters that profit from killing beautiful fluffy critters would be embraced.
Also guessing (or more correctly.... stating with confidence) that she best act quickly before she is unemployed in May,lol 😝

[SHEDHEAD]

The last thing anyone needs is a member from the NDP government involved in any aspect of managing out wildlife regardless if its residents, non residents or outfitters.

[leeelmer]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

F&W has the power to charge APOS members. Where did the rumour come from that they don’t lol? Currently APOS has been matching penalties dealt by F&W.

Love the misinformed outfitter bashing thread though. What percentage of residents charged per year?

You are incorrect. Fish and Wildlife can charge, but they used to have the power to remove allocations, and remove licences. They do not now.
Now it is completely up to the judge.
You should check your facts before you spout off...
Call any current fish cop and ask. Also ask any current government member that can look it up. The past conservative government removed this policy.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by shedhead

the last thing anyone needs is a member from the ndp government involved in any aspect of managing out wildlife regardless if its residents, non residents or outfitters.

amen!!

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

You are incorrect. Fish and Wildlife can charge, but they used to have the power to remove allocations, and remove licences. They do not now.
Now it is completely up to the judge.
You should check your facts before you spout off...
Call any current fish cop and ask. Also ask any current government member that can look it up. The past conservative government removed this policy.

Read your letter “never in current history ever disciplined” “taken away f&ws ability to discipline”

You should check your facts before you write a letter.

[LCCFisherman]

[leeelmer]

All violations of the APOS Code of Ethics may be subject to a penalty ranging from letters of reprimand, to fines, to temporary or permanent forfeiture of allocations, to the suspension or loss of an outfitter guide permit and/or guide designation.

Right from there website.
So have they ever taken away a permit or allocation????
No

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by LCCFisherman

Dude you are some special stupid...

Cmon let’s hear it. Facts LCC lol

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

All violations of the APOS Code of Ethics may be subject to a penalty ranging from letters of reprimand, to fines, to temporary or permanent forfeiture of allocations, to the suspension or loss of an outfitter guide permit and/or guide designation.

Right from there website.
So have they ever taken away a permit or allocation????
No

You said F&W has no ability to discipline nor currently has ever disciplined.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Wow, I had no idea.

[Salavee]

I can't say I've ever heard of an APOS member being disciplined from within the organization itself. Has anybody ?

[LCCFisherman]

NOPE! Bunch of crooked pathetic examples of outdoorsmen.

[Bigwoodsman]

They should be called the APPOS.

Alberta Professional Poaching Outfitters Society!

BW

[Zuludog]

Originally Posted by SHEDHEAD

The last thing anyone needs is a member from the NDP government involved in any aspect of managing out wildlife regardless if its residents, non residents or outfitters.

^^^This!

[Gifted Intuitive]

But Shannon Phillips is also being asked to address CWD. The discussions on this forum have suggested a population annihilation to solve the problem. Remember when the Conservatives wouldn't issue extra tags to sportspeople but put a bunch of sickos in a helicopter and maimed deer to death. How can we have members on this forum suggesting eradication and other groups saying there is a group that is taking too many animals ? Can you really poach a gopher ? Eventually you will come to understand that deer are a nuisance animal. In many areas elk have become a nuisance animal. In many areas there are supplemental tags; but why are they necessary ? What does "Undersubscribed " mean ? Let me explain, "It means nobody wants them". I think our wildlife managers are doing a great job, trying to satisfy the various lobby groups. I hunt all over this great province and wherever I go I find there are too many animals.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

But Shannon Phillips is also being asked to address CWD. The discussions on this forum have suggested a population annihilation to solve the problem. Remember when the Conservatives wouldn't issue extra tags to sportspeople but put a bunch of sickos in a helicopter and maimed deer to death. How can we have members on this forum suggesting eradication and other groups saying there is a group that is taking too many animals ? Can you really poach a gopher ? Eventually you will come to understand that deer are a nuisance animal. In many areas elk have become a nuisance animal. In many areas there are supplemental tags; but why are they necessary ? What does "Undersubscribed " mean ? Let me explain, "It means nobody wants them". I think our wildlife managers are doing a great job, trying to satisfy the various lobby groups. I hunt all over this great province and wherever I go I find there are too many animals.

Yea I agree,there’s too many cattle hogging all the good hunting land,lol

[TROLLER]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

All violations of the APOS Code of Ethics may be subject to a penalty ranging from letters of reprimand, to fines, to temporary or permanent forfeiture of allocations, to the suspension or loss of an outfitter guide permit and/or guide designation.

Right from there website.
So have they ever taken away a permit or allocation????
No

When I was still a member back some time ago, 2000 one outfitter out of Lloyd area was fined and had all his allocations removed as well as is outfitters license. Can't remember the guys name, getting too old i recon. Another time a migratory guide from the US was also removed as a member and not allowed to guide in Alberta. So they are slow and at times seem very corrupt but they do from time to time get things right.

[LCCFisherman]

Originally Posted by TROLLER

When I was still a member back some time ago, 2000 one outfitter out of Lloyd area was fined and had all his allocations removed as well as is outfitters license. Can't remember the guys name, getting too old i recon. Another time a migratory guide from the US was also removed as a member and not allowed to guide in Alberta. So they are slow and at times seem very corrupt but they do from time to time get things right.

Yet ol' McMahon still has an outfitting business, its just under his sons name now.. sad sad sad.