Cormorants and more cormorants rant

[pipco]

Howdy,

After recently fishing a couple of local lakes and a short trip up to a few lakes around the Rich Lake area I got to pondering. Have there always been as many double crested cormorants around as there is now?

Having fished a number of these lakes form the early 1970's I don't recall seeing them around. Certainly not as many as I saw at Fork Lake. There had to have been at least a hundred or more.

I do recall seeing a few way back in the 80's at Lac La Biche but never at any other lakes we fished up that way or any others lakes for that matter.

I'm curious as to whether there has been any studies done regarding the population of these birds and the impact they have on fisheries?

After seeing a few scarf down some good sized perch and trout I'd guess with the growing numbers they are having an impact.

Any theories or observations would be appreciated.

Thanx.

[Northern Yaker]

Who cares???seen this thread a couple time now. it's a bird,in its natural environment doing what birds do. They have more right to the fish than any of us.

[elkivory]

The problem with cormorants, is that the decimate fingerlings and minnows of all kings and native fish stocks are reduced because of it.

They can be a problem, for sure!

[Northern Yaker]

And they have always been around...so...
Once again who cares.

[Red Bullets]

Not quite accurate Northern Yaker.
A U of A student did a study in 2005. I read it online so I am sure it can be found if you look.

The double crested cormorant was an endangered species in the late 70's. There were only a very few nesting pairs in the province then (less than a 100). Now there are many thousand nesting pairs. Just within a 30 km of Lac la Biche there are now over 17000 nesting pairs. So that 34000 adult birds and they have an average of 1.5 chicks per nest. So that makes approx. 59 or 60 thousand cormorants in a 30 km circle. Each bird eats up to 1 lb. of fish a day. That's a potential of 30 tons of fish a day taken just by cormorants in the Lac la Biche area.

I can't imagine how many comorants are in the whole province. No wonder there aren't as many perch anymore.

[elkivory]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Not quite accurate Northern Yaker.
A U of A student did a study in 2005. I read it online so I am sure it can be found if you look.

The double crested cormorant was an endangered species in the late 70's. There were only a very few nesting pairs in the province then (less than a 100). Now there are many thousand nesting pairs. Just within a 30 km of Lac la Biche there are now over 17000 nesting pairs. So that 34000 adult birds and they have an average of 1.5 chicks per nest. So that makes approx. 59 or 60 thousand cormorants in a 30 km circle. Each bird eats up to 1 lb. of fish a day. That's a potential of 30 tons of fish a day taken just by cormorants in the Lac la Biche area.

I can't imagine how many comorants are in the whole province. No wonder there aren't as many perch anymore.

Exactly!

[wwbirds]

They have decimated the fish in some areas of southern Ontario and are ruining nesting islands for shorebirds and waterfowl by roosting in trees on the islands with so much super hot rich manure it kills the trees and all other vegetation on the island. No cover no nesting sites. 20 years ago it was rare to see one around Chestermere/Langdon but now I see them flying in squadron formation out of weed lake and going to and from chestermere!

[bobalong]

I was talking to a fisheries guy a few years back before they started stocking LLB with walleye and he said they had "oiled" a lot of eggs in the area to decrease the numbers. By the sound of it this was a one time thing, maybe should be done every year or so?

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I was talking to a fisheries guy a few years back before they started stocking LLB with walleye and he said they had "oiled" a lot of eggs in the area to decrease the numbers. By the sound of it this was a one time thing, maybe should be done every year or so?

I think they should be stocking bigger fish that would be more of a challenge for the birds. I know a guy with a nice dugout and that's how he got past the birds. He stocks bigger trout and the birds don't get any.

[Northern Yaker]

[QUOTE=

I can't imagine how many comorants are in the whole province. No wonder there aren't as many perch anymore.[/QUOTE]

That's funny...I'm sure it has nothing to do with the rampant poaching that takes place at almost everybody of water, the absolute sense of entitlement from a large majority of Albertans. You know the people in talking about. They drive large trucks,park angled across parking stalls, don't know how to hold doors open, catch a fish and automatically think it's a keeper.

Let me guess next you'll tell me the comorants are the reason our walleye populations were decimated way back when as well...

[pipco]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I was talking to a fisheries guy a few years back before they started stocking LLB with walleye and he said they had "oiled" a lot of eggs in the area to decrease the numbers. By the sound of it this was a one time thing, maybe should be done every year or so?

I'm thinking a cormorant cull every year would be a good thing. Managing fisheries also means managing species that have an impact on fish stock. Maybe cormorants no longer need to be protected if the populations have bounced back that significantly?

After finding an older post on this issue I guess it is time to write a few emails or letters to the people that either make this type of decision or influence the ones that do.

By the way northernyaker, I care, or wouldn't have taken the time to post this. I'm concerned for our fragile fisheries and environment.
Thanx for your input.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Northern Yaker

Let me guess next you'll tell me the comorants are the reason our walleye populations were decimated way back when as well...

Way back when there were few cormorants so probably not.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

I think they should be stocking bigger fish that would be more of a challenge for the birds. I know a guy with a nice dugout and that's how he got past the birds. He stocks bigger trout and the birds don't get any.

Years ago when I sat on the Fisheries Roundtable at one of the meetings a Rep for AFGA presented a plan for raising walleye fingerlings in dugouts. They were doing this in Sk at a cost of about 5K per project, but all the funding/work was being supplied by various clubs........no cost or very little to the government.

There was a huge increase in the survival rate as well, standard stocking is usually less than 5% while these "rearing" ponds were somewhere in the 35-50% range. I don't recall how they measured this, but it was very successful.

The Fisheries guy at the meeting showed little interest, while many of us there who belonged to various clubs thought it was a great idea, and most clubs could have easily raised 5K for a project like this. Fisheries guy said they would still have to monitor it, and there were no funds available for that?

[Ticdoc]

Originally Posted by Northern Yaker

And they have always been around...so...
Once again who cares.

Might want to read this:
http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...port-2014A.pdf

Google Andrea McGregor. Did her PhD research on this problem at Lac La Biche. Complex yet devastating interaction of overfishing, cormorants, etc.

ticdoc

[pipco]

Originally Posted by Ticdoc

Might want to read this:
http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...port-2014A.pdf

Google Andrea McGregor. Did her PhD research on this problem at Lac La Biche. Complex yet devastating interaction of overfishing, cormorants, etc.

ticdoc

Thank you very much for this information.

A very interesting read for anyone that truly cares about Alberta's fisheries for now and future generations.

I will be contacting Lac La Biche SRD for detailed report.

[fsa313]

Fished Salter's last week. There was a dozen Cormorants in a dead tree. Never seen them at Salter's before.
Neil

Originally Posted by pipco

Howdy,

After recently fishing a couple of local lakes and a short trip up to a few lakes around the Rich Lake area I got to pondering. Have there always been as many double crested cormorants around as there is now?

Having fished a number of these lakes form the early 1970's I don't recall seeing them around. Certainly not as many as I saw at Fork Lake. There had to have been at least a hundred or more.

I do recall seeing a few way back in the 80's at Lac La Biche but never at any other lakes we fished up that way or any others lakes for that matter.

I'm curious as to whether there has been any studies done regarding the population of these birds and the impact they have on fisheries?

After seeing a few scarf down some good sized perch and trout I'd guess with the growing numbers they are having an impact.

Any theories or observations would be appreciated.

Thanx.

[buckman]

They were legal to shoot in England when I lived there ,not sure about now.

I know they have increased, along with the Pelicans.

Not much can be done bout it though.Cant see a cull happening just yet.

[Kingfisher]

I along with the others have noticed a larger cormorant population. Both in Alberta and in BC lakes. I didn't realize there was that much of a cull that had taken place in previous years. But with the population explosion I think they should probably concider doing it again or even on a larger scale.

That report was interesting. I read it from end to end and found some really interesting finds. I would like to quote from the report, but they have asked if anyone is quoting or copying it to request permission. I have emailed Andrea McGregor to see if I can quote the report. We will see how long it takes for her to get back to me.

Andrea.McGregor@gov.ab.ca <Andrea.McGregor@gov.ab.ca>

I also told her what our current discusion is about and asked if she would come and post any current information that they may have on the current populations of double crested comorants, and what culling or egg oiling might be currently taking place that we are not aware of.

[RisingRainbows]

Before Europeans got to North America, there were flocks of literally millions of cormorants. I think the threats to our native fish populations come from other sources... How about we spend money on habitat protection and restoration instead of cormorant culling techniques.

[Granrey]

Originally Posted by Northern Yaker

Who cares???seen this thread a couple time now. it's a bird,in its natural environment doing what birds do. They have more right to the fish than any of us.

I wonder what they say, when they see us lol

[Wild&Free]

They're protected under the migratory bird treaty with the US are they not?

[pipco]

Originally Posted by RisingRainbows

Before Europeans got to North America, there were flocks of literally millions of cormorants. I think the threats to our native fish populations come from other sources... How about we spend money on habitat protection and restoration instead of cormorant culling techniques.

Millions of cormorants? Who told you this? What other sources?

Did you take the time to read the article?

If you did you might think otherwise.


I'm not saying that habitat protection isn't important.

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by pipco

Millions of cormorants? Who told you this? What other sources?

Did you take the time to read the article?

If you did you might think otherwise.


I'm not saying that habitat protection isn't important.

"Beautifull Morning, Light Frost -- I began drawing as I could see -- drawing all day -- We saw to day probably Millions of those Irish Geese or Cormorants, flying Southwest -- they flew in Single Lines for Several Hours extremely high." -- John James Audubon, 1820

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by RisingRainbows

"Beautifull Morning, Light Frost -- I began drawing as I could see -- drawing all day -- We saw to day probably Millions of those Irish Geese or Cormorants, flying Southwest -- they flew in Single Lines for Several Hours extremely high." -- John James Audubon, 1820

This was in Alberta?

[CK Angler]

Originally Posted by RisingRainbows

"Beautifull Morning, Light Frost -- I began drawing as I could see -- drawing all day -- We saw to day probably Millions of those Irish Geese or Cormorants, flying Southwest -- they flew in Single Lines for Several Hours extremely high." -- John James Audubon, 1820

Lol you quoting a sentence that says "probably millions" from a man who died in 1851 and lived in New York as a reputable source....

[harleydangerous]

New York City?

Git a rope!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=res1kG3HOEk


Couldn't resist.

___________

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

This was in Alberta?

No, not Alberta, in North America, though. Not so easy finding a 200 year old source as specific as that, the idea is just what I said, there were flocks of millions in North America before we came. So seeing flocks with dozens of birds doesn't even come close.

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by CK Angler

Lol you quoting a sentence that says "probably millions" from a man who died in 1851 and lived in New York as a reputable source....

Seriously...

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by RisingRainbows

Before Europeans got to North America, there were flocks of literally millions of cormorants. I think the threats to our native fish populations come from other sources... How about we spend money on habitat protection and restoration instead of cormorant culling techniques.

Why yes, yes they do come from other sources. But not just one source. Lots of fishermen in AB now. Lots of poaching. Lots of cormorants, pelicans etc. Weather, drought, invasive species,commercial fishing, sustenance fishing, farming and a number of other factors. They all have an impact on our fish species. To think there is no impact from this (cormorants) would be missing part of the whole equation.

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Why yes, yes they do come from other sources. But not just one source. Lots of fishermen in AB now. Lots of poaching. Lots of cormorants, pelicans etc. Weather, drought, invasive species,commercial fishing, sustenance fishing, farming and a number of other factors. They all have an impact on our fish species. To think there is no impact from this (cormorants) would be missing part of the whole equation.

Yes, those are all factors, and predation from other native animals is a factor. It is a natural one, however, and one that has always been around and, hopefully, always will. We should try and reduce our footprint on our natural world, not add to it by attempting to reduce the numbers of native animals because we don't "like" them as much as we like their prey.