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  #61  
Old 09-28-2011, 10:17 AM
pickrel pat pickrel pat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mikeo2 View Post
Chain Lakes
and the fishing sucks now?
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  #62  
Old 09-28-2011, 10:19 AM
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to you people who say its o.k to throw suckers away because they are competing with other fish are the same people who want to introduce bass into our waters, and by the way..... is it o.k for me to shoot all the moose i see and leave them for the wolves because i hunt whitetails and moose are competing with my whitetails?
I have no idea why you need to bring BASS in to this issue BUT if you want we can go through the whole BASS introduction again I don't mind still have lots to say on the subject. AS far as the suckers go we are talking about a fish with no set limit no rule or regulations why do you think that is. All these irrational comments about killing this and killing that refer to animals or fish with take limits at least make the comparison with some sort of reality.
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  #63  
Old 09-28-2011, 10:26 AM
pickrel pat pickrel pat is offline
 
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ok, perhaps the waterbodies which are OVER RUN with suckers need culling of some sort. however, going all the way back to post "1", the op is saying suckers in general not waterbodies that are clearly over run with suckers. i dont think suckers should be wasted in a waterbody with few suckers. thats just unethical.
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  #64  
Old 09-28-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pickrel pat View Post
actually no. can i have a name of a southern alberta lake thats over run with suckers?
I fear you havent read any of my posts if your asking for that info but i'll repeat.

Beauvais, Chain, Payne. You can also research the history of SRD's attempts and sadly their failures on sucker control. In that research you'll find many more sucker issues too.

I learned to flyfish on Beavermines creek many years ago, awesome wasnt a good enough descripton of the fishing. Now the suckers are so abundant you can actually catch them on a DRY FLY!!!!!!!!

Each to their own. Some are going to toss them forward...some are going to toss them over their shoulder.

This is my last post...I see no point in continuing if people arent reading posts with facts and arguing just for the sake of....its a living thing set it free
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  #65  
Old 09-28-2011, 10:42 AM
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This is my last post...I see no point in continuing if people arent reading posts with facts and arguing just for the sake of....its a living thing set it free
x2
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  #66  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:06 AM
Gust Gust is offline
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If I catch them from a number of different trout ponds, they go to the bush,,, if from a river they go back,,, if from the lower lower bow, it will get cut up for goldeye bait. To FH7,, gut the sucker and then cut minnow shaped strips with some meat/skin and scales, crazy good bait for goldeyes and walleye. We bring scissors in our tackle box for cutting strips.

One year at Chain lakes we caught over 100 suckers and F&W recommended we pile them on the ice, so they could get more accurate numbers and the coyotes would take care of the rest.
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  #67  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:19 AM
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There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area.

Quirk Creek is removing brook trout to protect native cutts and bulls.

Removing suckers and mountain whitefish does nothing to benefit the health of a stream. For years...even the mentality in F&W was to remove "undesireable" fish such as mountain whitefish. However as time passes we in the fishing interest group realized that the whitefish fry and young of the year are an important food for larger bulls, cutts and rainbows.

The same applies to suckers. Nature actually staggers spawning so that the predators have a great food source to grow on.

In lakes...sucker fry feed the next crop of pike and walleye.

In rivers...whitefish and sucker fry also benefit the predators.

I never kill fish needlessly unless I am eating them.

Cheers

Sun
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  #68  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GustavMahler View Post
If I catch them from a number of different trout ponds, they go to the bush,,, if from a river they go back,,, if from the lower lower bow, it will get cut up for goldeye bait. To FH7,, gut the sucker and then cut minnow shaped strips with some meat/skin and scales, crazy good bait for goldeyes and walleye. We bring scissors in our tackle box for cutting strips.

One year at Chain lakes we caught over 100 suckers and F&W recommended we pile them on the ice, so they could get more accurate numbers and the coyotes would take care of the rest.
Granted...in a stocked trout pond with no inflow or outflow...suckers are not a necessary part of the food chain for trout and in fact predated upon the same food as the trout. Still...some of the fry and YOY as do minnows do add quality calories to the trout that target them.

Chain Lakes was alway reknown for the sucker population
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  #69  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area.

Quirk Creek is removing brook trout to protect native cutts and bulls.

Removing suckers and mountain whitefish does nothing to benefit the health of a stream. For years...even the mentality in F&W was to remove "undesireable" fish such as mountain whitefish. However as time passes we in the fishing interest group realized that the whitefish fry and young of the year are an important food for larger bulls, cutts and rainbows.

The same applies to suckers. Nature actually staggers spawning so that the predators have a great food source to grow on.

In lakes...sucker fry feed the next crop of pike and walleye.

In rivers...whitefish and sucker fry also benefit the predators.

I never kill fish needlessly unless I am eating them.

Cheers

Sun
Yeah, that sums up my opinion on the subject.

Not sure why anyone would do that to a mountain whitefish. They're annoying to catch when you're targeting other fish I suppose, but correct me if I'm wrong, never heard of whitefish over populating and stunting or killing off other fish.
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  #70  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:38 AM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area.

I never kill fish needlessly unless I am eating them.
Unless they are PERCH eh?
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  #71  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Granted...in a stocked trout pond with no inflow or outflow...suckers are not a necessary part of the food chain for trout and in fact predated upon the same food as the trout. Still...some of the fry and YOY as do minnows do add quality calories to the trout that target them.

Chain Lakes was alway reknown for the sucker population
I've never caught a sucker smaller than 6 inches actually I think I snagged a minnow once and caught a tiny trout that was smaller than the lure I was using. My Dad (and he hardly has the time left in his life to see it work) thinks they should impose either a C&R for 2 years on pothole lakes and/or closing the season long enough to allow the stockers to figure out that marshmallows and velveeta aren't the natural food source,,, and now I see his point and it would really get those sucker minnows eaten and quick. Actually here's an idea, make Chain Lakes and a few others minnow bait only, train those stockers that powerbait is not their food.

Can anyone clarify this for me, slight hi-jack,,, "Were Bull Trout introduced to Chain Lakes to curb the sucker population?" I ice-fish Chain about 3 times a year and over the past 6 years have not caught a sucker, but the trout are pretty small,,, though I find if I fish further from the bottom the size goes up considerably, and to much scorn, from a neighbouring ice fisher one year,,, how do you argue that?
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  #72  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:48 AM
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Unless they are PERCH eh?
Seriously,,, an action movie should be made about two crazed fishermen hell bent on destroying the eachother,,, the characters could be like, uh, the nerdy kind that likes rock climbing too (Go to Canmore, you'll understand) and the other the rural type but likes his hot Ovaltine while cuddling his teddy,,, it's crazy because, if you had writers block while penning the screenplay, all you would need to do is look up posts between Sundance and Hunter Dave.

Dave, you realise that you have opened Sundances Pandoras box, his arch of the covenant and he will now melt our faces if we read his posts,, he actually looks like the bad guy from Indiana Jones.

With your quote above, this thread could catch the Quality Trout thread in postings,,, well played.
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  #73  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:54 AM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area.

Quirk Creek is removing brook trout to protect native cutts and bulls.

Removing suckers and mountain whitefish does nothing to benefit the health of a stream. For years...even the mentality in F&W was to remove "undesireable" fish such as mountain whitefish. However as time passes we in the fishing interest group realized that the whitefish fry and young of the year are an important food for larger bulls, cutts and rainbows.

The same applies to suckers. Nature actually staggers spawning so that the predators have a great food source to grow on.

In lakes...sucker fry feed the next crop of pike and walleye.

In rivers...whitefish and sucker fry also benefit the predators.

I never kill fish needlessly unless I am eating them.

Cheers

Sun
So this means you will not be trying to kill off the perch in your lake this year again.
You say the sucker fry feed the pike and walleye. If the amount of pike and walleye is lowered by harvesting then the amout of fry eaten is lowered which then increases the amount of spawning suckers which increases the amount of uneaten suckers which increases again the amount of spawners see the never ending cycle
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  #74  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area.

Quirk Creek is removing brook trout to protect native cutts and bulls.

Removing suckers and mountain whitefish does nothing to benefit the health of a stream. For years...even the mentality in F&W was to remove "undesireable" fish such as mountain whitefish. However as time passes we in the fishing interest group realized that the whitefish fry and young of the year are an important food for larger bulls, cutts and rainbows.

The same applies to suckers. Nature actually staggers spawning so that the predators have a great food source to grow on.

In lakes...sucker fry feed the next crop of pike and walleye.

In rivers...whitefish and sucker fry also benefit the predators.

I never kill fish needlessly unless I am eating them.

Cheers

Sun
Sorry this will be my last post.

Sun thats the most 2 faced post yet.

Why are you removing Perch?
It cant be a study case...because your following statments suggest you already know it all. Or are YOUR perch the exception, you do say......."There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area."......then you go onto say....."Nature actually staggers spawning so that the predators have a great food source to grow on." So leave nature to control YOUR PERCH, there is no need to study this as your expert comment already has told you what will happen.

Now im done.....Sun as always the last word is YOURS
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  #75  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by GustavMahler View Post
With your quote above, this thread could catch the Quality Trout thread in postings,,, well played.
I guess that I wasn't the only person that caught that bit about never killing any fish needlessly.......I'm just quicker on the draw.
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  #76  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:02 PM
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I wish this debate would start at ice-too-thin-to-walk-on season,,, it's gonna be a goodin, a cage match, the gates of Leningrad, Waterloo, Ghengis Kahn, Nevskys battle with the Teutonic forces, Spartacus, The Masada. Popcorn time
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  #77  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
Sorry this will be my last post.

Sun thats the most 2 faced post yet.

Why are you removing Perch?
It cant be a study case...because your following statments suggest you already know it all. Or are YOUR perch the exception, you do say......."There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area."......then you go onto say....."Nature actually staggers spawning so that the predators have a great food source to grow on." So leave nature to control YOUR PERCH, there is no need to study this as your expert comment already has told you what will happen.

Now im done.....Sun as always the last word is YOURS
Chub, even I get it. Sundance lake is like a big fish tank. There is no "Natural" balance. The balance is how the owners deal with it.
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  #78  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:08 PM
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Sorry this will be my last post.
I betcha it's not.....
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  #79  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:12 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Problem solved...........

CANNED SUCKER
Suckers
Red vinegar
Salt
Soak fish in salt water for 1 hour. Rinse with clean cold water, drain cut into 4 inch pieces. Pack fish into 1 quart jars leaving 1 1/2 inches from jar top. Add to each quart 2 tablespoons red vinegar and 1 teaspoon salt. Seal jars and pressure cook for 1 hour and 45 minutes at 10 pounds.
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  #80  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:14 PM
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I betcha it's not.....
I agree, chubs a post junky,, he's gonna need his fix,, he'll be jonesing, probably right now, he's sweatin and getting all fidgety, he's gotta walk it off, go check some dumpsters, maybe go hang around the back of the 7-11, kick some leaves in a gutter, ask to use someones blackberry, he's gotta check up, but won't post,,, oh no he's doubled over clenching his gut, he's gotta hold off, just 3 days and he'll be better, maybe thinkin about holeing up in a room with only a toilet and some baked beans, but no access to AO, maybe a vice, some flytying stuff but no AO Forums,,,, maybe there's a forum exchange program, or a forum rehab,,, an intervention is needed....

Too bad there isn't a betting pool on here.

Last edited by Gust; 09-28-2011 at 12:28 PM.
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  #81  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:16 PM
Gust Gust is offline
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Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
Problem solved...........

CANNED SUCKER
Suckers
Red vinegar
Salt
Soak fish in salt water for 1 hour. Rinse with clean cold water, drain cut into 4 inch pieces. Pack fish into 1 quart jars leaving 1 1/2 inches from jar top. Add to each quart 2 tablespoons red vinegar and 1 teaspoon salt. Seal jars and pressure cook for 1 hour and 45 minutes at 10 pounds.
I've heard that it's really good, and sucker is plentiful in meat and like Burbot, Omega oils.
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  #82  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:25 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
So leave nature to control YOUR PERCH, there is no need to study this as your expert comment already has told you what will happen.
I'll bet that if there were some suckers in there it would help to control the perch population.
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  #83  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:33 PM
mikeo2 mikeo2 is offline
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Know what would really take care of those perch in sundance? BASS
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  #84  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:49 PM
mikeo2 mikeo2 is offline
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Originally Posted by GustavMahler View Post
I agree, chubs a post junky,, he's gonna need his fix,, he'll be jonesing, probably right now, he's sweatin and getting all fidgety, he's gotta walk it off, go check some dumpsters, maybe go hang around the back of the 7-11, kick some leaves in a gutter, ask to use someones blackberry, he's gotta check up, but won't post,,, oh no he's doubled over clenching his gut, he's gotta hold off, just 3 days and he'll be better, maybe thinkin about holeing up in a room with only a toilet and some baked beans, but no access to AO, maybe a vice, some flytying stuff but no AO Forums,,,, maybe there's a forum exchange program, or a forum rehab,,, an intervention is needed....

Too bad there isn't a betting pool on here.
Because this post is relavent to the thread? I think its time you join the "post junky" addiction counselling group.
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  #85  
Old 09-28-2011, 01:07 PM
858king 858king is offline
 
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Suckers in pothole dams have a more legitimate claim to the water than trout -- I do not know of a single natural, year-round stream in central Alberta that does not have suckers, shiners, or chub.

Regards suckers as food, from cold water they are genuinely rich and tasty. They have that fishy taste like herring etc. so it isn't for everyone, but they are very good.

Run a check on the diet of the sucker and you'll see that it's not really any different from a trout except that trout are more predatory and eat more of their own fry -- look at the sucker's snout and you'll see it's no threat to anything but the deadest and smallest fry.
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:06 PM
mikeo2 mikeo2 is offline
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How many of you shoot gophers? I bet ZERO of you keep the gophers to eat or use as bait and its pretty damn hard to release a dead gopher. Suckers are the gophers of the fish world, sure they are a part of the ecosystem and provide food for predators, but some people see them as a nuisance and other people see them as one of god's creatures.

Last edited by mikeo2; 09-28-2011 at 02:28 PM.
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  #87  
Old 09-28-2011, 02:14 PM
pickrel pat pickrel pat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
Sorry this will be my last post.

Sun thats the most 2 faced post yet.

Why are you removing Perch?
It cant be a study case...because your following statments suggest you already know it all. Or are YOUR perch the exception, you do say......."There is no need to kill and remove any fish species unless in a study area."......then you go onto say....."Nature actually staggers spawning so that the predators have a great food source to grow on." So leave nature to control YOUR PERCH, there is no need to study this as your expert comment already has told you what will happen.

Now im done.....Sun as always the last word is YOURS
lol...... comparing a mans pond to a watershed? kinda like me comparing moose and suckers eh?

Last edited by pickrel pat; 09-28-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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  #88  
Old 09-28-2011, 02:39 PM
858king 858king is offline
 
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How many of you shoot gophers? I bet ZERO of you keep the gophers to eat or use as bait and its pretty damn hard to release a dead gopher. Suckers are the gophers of the fish world, sure they are a part of the ecosystem and provide food for predators, some people see them as a nuisance and other people see them as one of god's creatures.
That's a good point but typically, gophers are on private land and the removal of them serves a definite purpose (like protecting crops/livestock) and therefore livelihood. It also presents the fact that as the owner of the land, the property owner has every right to benefit from it and protect it according to how he sees fit. I would see no issue with regulating the shooting of gophers on public land, by the way.

However, the comparison is basically apples to rocks because it's so different. Alberta waters are for the most part public waters and we all have a degree of stewardship and stake in them. A better comparison would perhaps be the killing of ducks in the tailing ponds of Fort Mac. Why the outrage? Because the ducks are seen as your own property, and that's because they are -- the tailing ponds were killing our own property. In the same way, killing fish just because is you killing my property and vice versa.

And then held against the historical precedents set by the wanton destruction of the buffalo, passenger pigeon, hawks/falcons, bull trout, pike, burbot, etc, and one gets a sense of how foolish and irresponsible it is. Four of that list are practically extinct and it's because of this type of irresponsible attitude.

I don't mean it as a judgement. What I raise is the facts: suckers are native and trout for the most part aren't, so the latter is the interloper. Wanton destruction is short-sighted. This is a public resource and private individuals have no right to regulate a public resource as they see fit. Etc.
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  #89  
Old 09-28-2011, 02:59 PM
Gust Gust is offline
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Because this post is relavent to the thread? I think its time you join the "post junky" addiction counselling group.
Oh no not me, I don't have a problem, nuh-uh, never, are you kidding, other people are junky's not me, I'm an informed user.

And it's completely relevant to the thread.
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  #90  
Old 09-28-2011, 04:24 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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That's a good point but typically, gophers are on private land and the removal of them serves a definite purpose (like protecting crops/livestock) and therefore livelihood. It also presents the fact that as the owner of the land, the property owner has every right to benefit from it and protect it according to how he sees fit. I would see no issue with regulating the shooting of gophers on public land, by the way.

However, the comparison is basically apples to rocks because it's so different. Alberta waters are for the most part public waters and we all have a degree of stewardship and stake in them. A better comparison would perhaps be the killing of ducks in the tailing ponds of Fort Mac. Why the outrage? Because the ducks are seen as your own property, and that's because they are -- the tailing ponds were killing our own property. In the same way, killing fish just because is you killing my property and vice versa.

And then held against the historical precedents set by the wanton destruction of the buffalo, passenger pigeon, hawks/falcons, bull trout, pike, burbot, etc, and one gets a sense of how foolish and irresponsible it is. Four of that list are practically extinct and it's because of this type of irresponsible attitude.

I don't mean it as a judgement. What I raise is the facts: suckers are native and trout for the most part aren't, so the latter is the interloper. Wanton destruction is short-sighted. This is a public resource and private individuals have no right to regulate a public resource as they see fit. Etc.
Well you contradict yourself very good you say it is not the same because fish and ducks are on public land and belong to everyone but the gophers wether they live on public land or private they still belong to everyone so it is a fair comparison the gophers are also a public resource then they should also not be regulated by an individual sorry you can't have it both ways
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