Range Orientation

260 Rem · #1 10-31-2016, 11:11 PM

An increasing number of Ranges are requiring formal "orientations"...interested to hear some opinions/perspectives

tikka250 · #2 11-01-2016, 12:24 AM

With the range i attend having a required orientation is extremely helpfull in assuring mistakes dont get made because lets be honest how many new members go to a range and imediately read the rules. One plus that i see in having a safety orientation is it also helps the new guy have a more pleasurable experience. When everyone is on the same page there is a lot less tension from others constantly worrying if the guy next to them knows the safety rules. On top of that the new guy dosnt get criticised or even worse yelled at for not knowing how to conduct himself safely.

calgarychef · #3 11-01-2016, 05:29 AM

It should be required at any range.

acrtech · #4 11-01-2016, 06:02 AM

The Medicine Hat Range has been doing Orientations for a while now. They now just recently acquired the use of a drone and developed an online version of the walk through. I may have to allow my membership to lapse, just to get to see the online version.
I believe Orientations are beneficia l(however, still see(no such thing as minor infractions at a range) infractions now and again, based solely on lazyness I'm hoping),
Probably releases the club of a few liability issues once the member signs off as understanding the rules.

DCse7en · #5 11-01-2016, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

An increasing number of Ranges are requiring formal "orientations"...interested to hear some opinions/perspectives

Orientations aren't a bad thing....buuuuuuuuuuut, there are always those who don't care, orientation or not.

elkhunter11 · #6 11-01-2016, 06:30 AM

After being a member at a few ranges, one of which requires a mandatory orientation, I am in favor of the mandatory orientation. Some people simply have no idea of how to act safely at a range, and some won't bother to read the rules, even if they have to sign a copy of the range rules to join the range.

Sashi · #7 11-01-2016, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

An increasing number of Ranges are requiring formal "orientations"...interested to hear some opinions/perspectives

Please explain what you are referring too as formal orientations. SPFGA already has formal orientations for new members.

elkhunter11 · #8 11-01-2016, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashi

Please explain what you are referring too as formal orientations. SPFGA already has formal orientations for new members.

That formal orientation is what is being referred to. Many ranges just provide a key or a swipe card and let people go to the range without anyone showing them the facilities, or explaining the basic range rules.

sns2 · #9 11-01-2016, 06:54 AM

Thank goodness you do it, 260. Even with the orientation, you still see stuff that makes you cringe or get foul. Keep it up!

260 Rem · #10 11-01-2016, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

Thank goodness you do it, 260. Even with the orientation, you still see stuff that makes you cringe or get foul. Keep it up!

It is interesting that most "infractions" identified by Enforcement Officers are not committed by those having gone through a formal Orientation....but by "oldies" (generally infrequent users) that joined prior to the compulsory policy. I have mused about recommending to Exec, that we start a short (30 minute) "in shed" session for oldies. Most are probably not aware that when an Enforcement Officer writes up an infraction, the Access Card is disabled pending the completion of an Orientation.

BigJon · #11 11-01-2016, 08:57 AM

Why not deal with boneheads individually instead of trying to play nanny? Unreal....

elkhunter11 · #12 11-01-2016, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJon

Why not deal with boneheads individually instead of trying to play nanny? Unreal....

Because if one of those boneheads hurts someone else , punishing the bonehead after doesn't help the victim. And if there is a serious incident, the range can be shut down for a considerable time, while an investigation takes place.

bobtodrick · #13 11-01-2016, 09:17 AM

All for it.
I've been a member of SPFGA for about seven years now.
Since they started the orientation I've noticed a definite drop in people crossing the yellow safety line and handling firearms when the curtain is down, and people unintentionally sweeping the firing line.

DiabeticKripple · #14 11-01-2016, 09:21 AM

CDTSA has a mandatory orientation. Takes about an hour then you can shoot since you are already there

Zuludog · #15 11-01-2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

Thank goodness you do it, 260. Even with the orientation, you still see stuff that makes you cringe or get foul. Keep it up!

This is how I feel. This is my first year at SPFGA and my wife and I really enjoy it. Having gone through the orientation we feel more comfortable a day safe using the range. It is always good to know what is expected of yourself and others as it helps prevent misunderstandings and potential accidents.

I too still see things like people handling firearms while the curtain I down. One guy I met also asked us why we bother signing in as it's not required. It is. Lol Overall the experience has been very pleasant and the people we have met were very friendly I just wish I had joined earlier. I think the orientation helps with this.

Big Sky · #16 11-01-2016, 10:10 AM

Range orientation is a good idea, but sometimes I wonder if the purpose is to educate the new members or to protect the club/satisfy insurance requirements.
There are a lot of rules in place at my range. For some, going over them in an orientation session is like throwing porridge at the wall; not much is going to stick.
Videos, posted on a club's website, outlining some of the most common procedures would likely be of benefit to many members. Of course, this would be to reinforce the orientation.

Full Curl Earl · #17 11-01-2016, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

It is interesting that most "infractions" identified by Enforcement Officers are not committed by those having gone through a formal Orientation....but by "oldies" (generally infrequent users) that joined prior to the compulsory policy. I have mused about recommending to Exec, that we start a short (30 minute) "in shed" session for oldies. Most are probably not aware that when an Enforcement Officer writes up an infraction, the Access Card is disabled pending the completion of an Orientation.

Can you explain what you mean by "Enforcement Officers"?
I initially thought you were speaking of police members at your range giving out tickets, but now I'm thinking its some sort of internal Gun Range police?

BigJon · #18 11-01-2016, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Because if one of those boneheads hurts someone else , punishing the bonehead after doesn't help the victim. And if there is a serious incident, the range can be shut down for a considerable time, while an investigation takes place.

I don't buy the cautionary management notion. A bonehead isn't going to stop being a bonehead b/c of a half hour tailgate meeting. Weed them out and deal with individuals that need dealt with rather than appoint some blowhard to drone on about how to not shoot somebody.

Once started down this path, where does it end? A series of shooting range skill testing questions? Fully supervised shooting sessions? B/c if they haven't passed a range safety test and weren't being supervised while someone was injured, there could be serious implications....

Shooters opening doors that don't need opened....

markg · #19 11-01-2016, 11:44 AM

I think its a good idea. I used to hate tailgate safety meetings, thinking they were a waste of time. The more I thought about it I came to appreciate them. I think the same thing applies to something like an orientation. Sure there will be people that make a fuss, but often those type of personalities make a fuss about everything. Any place that is a dangerous environment precautions should be taken.

You could ask the member if they would prefer to have an orientation or have a tailgate meeting before every shooting session!

markg · #20 11-01-2016, 11:53 AM

I also find it a bit humorus that on Alberta Outdoorsman forum that its always the other guy that needs the correction or training.

I am honest and self actualized enough to know that I am not perfect and can make mistakes. I just hope that when I do make them that they dont hurt anyone. Being reminded of proper saftey procedures helps a person get in the right mind set.

Thats just me though different strokes for different folks.

sns2 · #21 11-01-2016, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJon

I don't buy the cautionary management notion. A bonehead isn't going to stop being a bonehead b/c of a half hour tailgate meeting. Weed them out and deal with individuals that need dealt with rather than appoint some blowhard to drone on about how to not shoot somebody.

Once started down this path, where does it end? A series of shooting range skill testing questions? Fully supervised shooting sessions? B/c if they haven't passed a range safety test and weren't being supervised while someone was injured, there could be serious implications....

Shooters opening doors that don't need opened....

You're so far off base. You can't be fired if expectations weren't first clearly outlined to you. Ranges may also have a difficult time revoking membership permanently from unsafe members, if they don't clearly outline codes of conduct.

It is both a benefit, as attested to by new members, and a safeguard at the same time.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Pathfinder76 · #22 11-01-2016, 12:31 PM

Gun control?

BigJon · #23 11-01-2016, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

You're so far off base. You can't be fired if expectations weren't first clearly outlined to you. Ranges may also have a difficult time revoking membership permanently from unsafe members, if they don't clearly outline codes of conduct.

It is both a benefit, as attested to by new members, and a safeguard at the same time.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

I don't believe I am "off base" as you put it.

Don't people sign a membership agreement? If they do revoking a membership is easy.

It sounds like nanny BS and solid play for guys that want to play "hall monitor."

Once again, when this cautionary approach starts, where does it end? And why stop there? Would it be safer to have no repeating firearms at a shooting range? A calibre or "foot lbs of energy" maximum?

You guys need to wake up.

elkhunter11 · #24 11-01-2016, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Can you explain what you mean by "Enforcement Officers"?
I initially thought you were speaking of police members at your range giving out tickets, but now I'm thinking its some sort of internal Gun Range police?

Whenever the indoor range or the trap and skeet fields are open at FMFG, there will be one or more Range Safety Officers present They are in charge, and if someone causes issues for them, they report any issues to the executive, who deals with those responsible. As well, any member can contact the executive with a concern. I have received texts, e-mails and calls from both RSOs and members , which resulted in memberships being revoked. The problem is that many members that observe unsafe behavior will not speak to the offenders, or report them.

purgatory.sv · #25 11-01-2016, 01:09 PM

I believe range orientation is good.

I view it as an acknowledgment of understanding your responsibility to the range in accordance with the range operating procedure.

260 Rem · #26 11-01-2016, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Can you explain what you mean by "Enforcement Officers"?
I initially thought you were speaking of police members at your range giving out tickets, but now I'm thinking its some sort of internal Gun Range police?

SPFGA has both paid and volunteer Enforcement Officers ... some refer them as Range Officers ... same basic function. They are responsible to insure shooters are members and comply with Range Rules and expectations.
No, they are not Police Officer members. Police/LE groups using SPFGA play no role in the enforcement of "rules" at SPFGA.

260 Rem · #27 11-01-2016, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

Gun control?

Yes, from the time you remove it from your vehicle until you put it back.

Pathfinder76 · #28 11-01-2016, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Yes, from the time you remove it from your vehicle until you put it back.

Yep exactly. Taking a liberal view of compliance and inflicting it upon everyone at their inconvenience in hopes that it will change the behaviour of complete morons. It's worked so well before. Let's keep following the pattern.

elkhunter11 · #29 11-01-2016, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJon

I don't believe I am "off base" as you put it.

Don't people sign a membership agreement? If they do revoking a membership is easy.

It sounds like nanny BS and solid play for guys that want to play "hall monitor."

Once again, when this cautionary approach starts, where does it end? And why stop there? Would it be safer to have no repeating firearms at a shooting range? A calibre or "foot lbs of energy" maximum?

You guys need to wake up.

Actually, there are limitations as to which cartridges can be used on which ranges. For example, some ranges are not approvef for 50BMG. My former range was not approved for 50BMG , so we could not allow that cartridge to be fired on our range. There was also a restriction for our indoor range, so you can't shoot your 500 S&W there.Most shotgun ranges also have maximum shot size limitations in place, so you can't shoot skeet or trap with your goose load. As well, you are only allowed two rounds in your shotgun while shooting skeet, and one round when shooting regular trap.

260 Rem · #30 11-01-2016, 01:27 PM

BigJon - Given that there are no universal standards/range rules, I expect that every Range adopts rule sets with which they feel comfortable. The good thing is that nobody is forced to join a club if they don't like the rules. IMO, one of the primary functions of a Range is to adopt operational proceedures that insure the facility remains open, and if that requires oversight, so be it.