High river gun grab from Lorne Gunter

[Kanonfodder]

The more that comes to light about the RCMP’s High River gun grab following last spring’s devastating flooding in southern Alberta, the more obvious it is the Mounties became obsessed with taking High Riverites’ guns. Rescuing people was secondary to breaking into homes without warrants and stripping the populous of their legal firearms.

It would appear that the incident is a tragic abuse of police powers against law-abiding citizens.

Through the exemplary work of independent firearms researcher Dennis Young, we already know that police broke into twice as many High River homes after the emergency had ended as they did while flood waters were still coursing through town.

The Highwood River overran its banks in High River early on the morning of June 21, just after midnight on the 20th .

Through access to information requests filed by Young, we learned earlier this year that by June 23, the RCMP thought the immediate crisis was over. This was an assessment shared by the units of the Canadian armed forces that were assisting the Mounties with search and rescue.

On June 24, High River RCMP reported to their bosses in Edmonton that they had completed their search of every home in town, 3,337 in all. There were still about 300 people living in the town of 13,000, despite the province’s mandatory evacuation order. But other than that, everything seemed calm.

That same day, units of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry from Edmonton were requesting a return home since there was “no further danger to civilians (life and limb) and evacuations not requested.”

All 31 people rescued by police and the military seem to have been plucked from their homes within the first 24 hours. Then things slowly settled down.

So how come Mounties felt the need to kick in nearly 1,300 doors after June 24, nearly double the number (674) they had kicked down in the first four days of flooding? The logical answer is that they had stopped looking for stranded survivors and had, instead, started focusing on disarming the civilian population.

Indeed, new documents just uncovered by Young show that Mounties kept seizing guns up until July 10, nearly three full weeks after the flood and more than two weeks after the first evacuees had been given the all-clear to return to their homes.

This information makes a mockery of the Mounties’ insistence that they only took firearms they encountered by coincidence. They claimed to take only those firearms they noticed “in plain sight” while they were in homes searching for survivors.

But nearly half the guns they seized, they seized on their second trip to most homes after they had been in them once already and determined there were no survivors cowering inside.

And as Young discovered last week in police records, Mounties also confiscated several pellet guns, bows and arrows, crossbows, “musket powder” and “2 bayonets.”

Apparently, in addition to concerns about retaliation by angry homeowners, Mounties also seemed paranoid about uprisings by Boy Scouts, First Nations, medieval Flemish yeomen, British Redcoats and Imperial Japanese infantry circa 1941.

Good thing they didn’t locate any disruptors or blowguns, so they didn’t also have to be on the lookout for Klingons or indigenous Kuna warriors from South America.

Want more proof of Mountie misbehaviour?

According to residents, members kicked in doors in neighbourhoods that had no flood damage: no water in the basement; no power, gas or sewer outages. There was no chance people needed rescuing in those homes. But doors were kicked down and guns take anyway.

It would appear that this was a despicable incident in which our trusted national police force far overstepped its powers, even in an emergency.

[Wild&Free]

when does the criminal investigations start... oh wait it would be the rcmp conducting them.

[elkhunter11]

And still no word on the progress of the inquiry that was supposed to be wrapped up months ago.

[tonnage]

And the reason Bob Paulson should be fired! This guy only wants guns in the hands of the police and the military. A true Liberal.

[Unregistered user]

There are a few delta bravos on this site who agree with Paulson and co.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

There are a few delta bravos on this site who agree with Paulson and co.

One of them even knows that alphabet.....shhhhh

[MrDave]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

There are a few delta bravos on this site who agree with Paulson and co.

And that's a shame. They too have shown what's wrong within the RCMP.

So Kannonfodder,can you answer your own rant about when people stopped respecting the uniform? Starting to see it a little clearer? Its not from what we got busted for, its the behavior of the majority of the officers. Not the behavior of a small percentage.

Which community is next? Yours, mine, or???? Think this is the last time we will see this?

[greylynx]

I would like to give Dennis Young an Order of Canada.

I do think that the majority of the people on AO know how much work Dennis has done in helping the firearms community in Canada.

I am not sure if Dennis would accept an Order of Canada...they have already given Wendy Cukier and a lot of other bad people one.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by MrDave

Which community is next? Yours, mine, or???? Think this is the last time we will see this?

Peace River flooding. Royal Canadian Military Police may kick your door down.

[Kanonfodder]

Originally Posted by MrDave

And that's a shame. They too have shown what's wrong within the RCMP.

So Kannonfodder,can you answer your own rant about when people stopped respecting the uniform? Starting to see it a little clearer? Its not from what we got busted for, its the behavior of the majority of the officers. Not the behavior of a small percentage.

Which community is next? Yours, mine, or???? Think this is the last time we will see this?

It's hardly the majority of officers, I can actually discern that the minority make the majority look bad

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

It's hardly the majority of officers, I can actually discern that the minority make the majority look bad

A problem that should be taken very seriously.

[Kanonfodder]

Absolutely

[mudbug]

Some "members" should be fired over this and lose any pension or other benefits they may have

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by mudbug

Some "members" should be fired over this and lose any pension or other benefits they may have

That would be a good start.

[bobalong]

If I lived in High River I would be lobbying relentlessly to have them removed from the town, and never allowed back in again. How could anyone in that town, or the province for that matter, ever trust them again........absolute disgraceful conduct.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

It's hardly the majority of officers, I can actually discern that the minority make the majority look bad

I wouldn't be so quick to say that.

While I agree that the majority might not have made the decissions made or issued the orders that were issued but I doubt very much that anything less than the overwhelming majority of RCMP officers would do exactly what they were ordered to do.

In fact...the High River thing proves that.

The world is full of good men who did bad things and then told the world... quite truthfully that they were....just following orders.

And ... that is why nobody has been charged.

The rank and file followed orders and nobody has the testicles to go after the ones that played poliotics to get to the top.
If the bigwigs throw the junior guys under the bus... the rank and file will turn on them and they know it.

So...its a Mexican standoff...as long as the guys that kicked down doors are covered for just doing as they were told... none of them will feel inclined to throw the boss under the bus.

Charge just one of two of the cops that were on the ground and watch what happens when everyone figures out that the guys up stairs are willing to eat their own young.

There would be a purge like nothing seen since Stalin.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by mudbug

Some "members" should be fired over this and lose any pension or other benefits they may have

And it should start at the top. Preferably with Paulson.

[Blackwolf]

I believe every member who broke down doors should be charged with each individual count of break, enter and theft. Each member knew there was no warrants to do so yet did so anyway. They in my mind are criminals, period and should be treated as so.

Enough of ***** footing around, These constables stole our very freedom and trust. The privilege of freedom is to guard these freedoms for our children's' children's children. If we say nothing or do nothing we are stripping away these freedoms from our children that was paid with blood. The Nazi's who were hung claimed "Just following orders". This is not an excuse, even in the military you could and can refuse an order for various reasons.

Everytime I see an RCMP police car, I cringe, I have lost respect for them. Everyone has to Abide by the law, no one is above the law other wise our freedoms will fade one at a time. There is not a law for us and another for the police.We pay these people a lot of money to protect our freedoms and lives, who will protect us from them?

[blueskys]

It is the majority of officers that are dirt bags, they have an attitude that is pretty hard to stomach most of the time.
Watched a documentary on the Greg Matters murder a few days ago. The first responder hero Mountie who kneed the 66 year old grandmother in the chest is typical of the steroid freaks in uniform around here.

[Scar270]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

It's hardly the majority of officers, I can actually discern that the minority make the majority look bad

At least in high river you are right, it wasnt the majority, it was all of them. Not one case of an officer who said "no this isnt right".

Makes it hard for me to believe that if an operation of this size can have consensus on trampling rights and committing criminal acts, that there really enough officers who think this is bad to make up more then a statistical anomoly. I have not even heard of one officer in Canada who has critisized what happened.

[pickrel pat]

ummmm.... If my boss told me to do something illegal and I did it, I myself would be responsible for my ACTIONS.

[horsepower]

[QUOTE=Big Daddy Badger;2402077]I wouldn't be so quick to say that.


The world is full of good men who did bad things and then told the world... quite truthfully that they were....just following orders.

And ... that is why nobody has been charged.


It is my belief that no one has been charged because the rcmp are in collusion with the government (no big surprise there). It is my current belief that the government asked the rcmp to take responsibility for the abhorrent gun grab in High River and for that the government promised them additional funding. The only pressure to find out the truth behind the lead up to the gun grab (i.e. a possible meeting), and the resulting cover up by various governments (i.e provincial and federal) and the rcmp will come from the people.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Everytime I see an RCMP police car, I cringe, I have lost respect for them. Everyone has to Abide by the law, no one is above the law other wise our freedoms will fade one at a time. There is not a law for us and another for the police.We pay these people a lot of money to protect our freedoms and lives, who will protect us from them?

How many regular citizens are incarcerated in Canada right now? How many thousand? Hundreds of thousands? Sheeple jump on the all cops are evil bandwagon so quickly, but forget about the criminals they have put away.

My point? If you are pigeon holing an entire group of people (RCMP) because of a few bad ones, how can you walk around your daily life knowing that all these thousands and millions of criminals are right beside you? Surely if you cringe everytime you see a RCMP car (your words) walking beside all of humanity must be crippling to you on a daily basis.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

How many regular citizens are incarcerated in Canada right now? How many thousand? Hundreds of thousands? Sheeple jump on the all cops are evil bandwagon so quickly, but forget about the criminals they have put away.

My point? If you are pigeon holing an entire group of people (RCMP) because of a few bad ones, how can you walk around your daily life knowing that all these thousands and millions of criminals are right beside you? Surely if you cringe everytime you see a RCMP car (your words) walking beside all of humanity must be crippling to you on a daily basis.

The point isn't that it is only a minority of officers that are abusing their authority, and breaking the law, it's that the force covers up for those officers, and protects them. Every officer that covers up for one of those officers, is in fact, one of those "bad ones". The end result, is that we have some armed individuals running around breaking our laws, with absolutely no fear of being held responsible for their actions. The average citizen doesn't go around carrying a prohibited weapon, and at least most of them have some fear of being held accountable.

If only five officers abused their power and committed illegal break and enters at High River, but fifty other officers knew about it, but didn't turn them in, then we have fifty five bad officers, not just five bad officers.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The point isn't that it is only a minority of officers that are abusing their authority, and breaking the law, it's that the force covers up for those officers, and protects them. Every officer that covers up for one of those officers, is in fact, one of those "bad ones". The end result, is that we have some armed individuals running around breaking our laws, with absolutely no fear of being held responsible for their actions. The average citizen doesn't go around carrying a prohibited weapon, and at least most of them have some fear of being held accountable.

If only five officers abused their power and committed illegal break and enters at High River, but fifty other officers knew about it, but didn't turn them in, then we have fifty five bad officers, not just five bad officers.

Different point, and while I do agree in premise, I disagree that they have no fear of being caught. I would bet an RCMP officer would have extreme fear of being jailed.

[elkhunter11]

Different point, and while I do agree in premise, I disagree that they have no fear of being caught. I would bet an RCMP officer would have extreme fear of being jailed.

And just how many RCMP officers are you aware of that were sentenced to prison, for taking part in incidents like the Vancouver airport incident, or High River?
They are so confident that they will get away with this type of behavior, that they aren't worried about being sentenced to prison for it.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Different point, and while I do agree in premise, I disagree that they have no fear of being caught. I would bet an RCMP officer would have extreme fear of being jailed.

The problem with that is we are allowing the RCMP to ever expand the envelope of their power over us. We allow our employees to break several laws and then do nothing about it, sending a signal to them that the RCMP TRULY ARE ABOVE THE LAW. As citizens we have been conditioned that the RCMP are to be trusted and obeyed at all costs. We have forgotten that the RCMP work for us, they are our employees not our masters. Until that simple fact is recognized the Police will continue to act however they deem appropriate and there isn't one damn thing us peons can do about it.

Kind of frightening.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

The problem with that is we are allowing the RCMP to ever expand the envelope of their power over us. We allow our employees to break several laws and then do nothing about it, sending a signal to them that the RCMP TRULY ARE ABOVE THE LAW. As citizens we have been conditioned that the RCMP are to be trusted and obeyed at all costs. We have forgotten that the RCMP work for us, they are our employees not our masters. Until that simple fact is recognized the Police will continue to act however they deem appropriate and there isn't one damn thing us peons can do about it.

Kind of frightening.

You do realize you just grabbed a truckload of feces and threw it at the faces of every current and former law enforcement officer ever, including the ones that frequent this forum, right?

I can name 6 right now that will likely read this, how can we make statements like this then drop into the fetal position begging for help when the bad guys prey on us?

Or do we just grab our handguns and start firing blindly, because 'when seconds count the police are minutes away'

[sask]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The point isn't that it is only a minority of officers that are abusing their authority, and breaking the law, it's that the force covers up for those officers, and protects them. Every officer that covers up for one of those officers, is in fact, one of those "bad ones". The end result, is that we have some armed individuals running around breaking our laws, with absolutely no fear of being held responsible for their actions. The average citizen doesn't go around carrying a prohibited weapon, and at least most of them have some fear of being held accountable.

If only five officers abused their power and committed illegal break and enters at High River, but fifty other officers knew about it, but didn't turn them in, then we have fifty five bad officers, not just five bad officers.

This - bang on.

Remember that there were 200+ RCMP in High River AFTER it was 'safe' as per the RCMP and CF. Do you think any of these , even if not participating actively, did NOT know what was going on ? Where are they now ?

And do you imagine that they never said a word about it to their colleagues ? (hell I know of someone who has claimed to have seen video of them kicking in doors on Smart phones.....I believe him)

So yeah, unfortunately it is beyond a small minority .

Anyone remember Cool Hand Luke ?

"Boss: Sorry, Luke. I'm just doing my job. You gotta appreciate that.

Luke: Nah - calling it your job don't make it right, Boss."

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You do realize you just grabbed a truckload of feces and threw it at the faces of every current and former law enforcement officer ever, including the ones that frequent this forum, right?

I can name 6 right now that will likely read this, how can we make statements like this then drop into the fetal position begging for help when the bad guys prey on us?

Or do we just grab our handguns and start firing blindly, because 'when seconds count the police are minutes away'

I didn't throw feces at anyone. I made a comment on the state of policing in Canada, and how we citizens are allowing the police to become our masters. Then I commented on how we need to reign our employees back in and stop letting them walk all over us, like they did in High River.

I have absolutely no illusion that the police would ever be able to respond to a call in my yard, we are far to remote to allow a timely response. They will attend take notes and return to base.

Oh and those six members your talking about, to my knowledge, have not denounced the trouncing of Canadian citizens rights at the hands of the RCMP in High River. I view them as a small part of a much larger and systemic problem with policing in Canada. I'm sure they are good ol' boys though.