High river gun grab from Lorne Gunter

[roper1]

The ball is back in your court, Ken. Maybe the six guys you know are upstanding employees & would be interested in working for a 'Made in Alberta' police force that isn't managed by corrupt leaders. The RCMP have been in decline for decades as a police organization IMO

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You do realize you just grabbed a truckload of feces and threw it at the faces of every current and former law enforcement officer ever, including the ones that frequent this forum, right?

I can name 6 right now that will likely read this, how can we make statements like this then drop into the fetal position begging for help when the bad guys prey on us?

Nobody's throwing feces. This is how you make those decent officers aware of the corruption they are representing. Most don't think about what they are doing or representing, they just do what they are told. Many of those good officers your talking about were kicking in doors and confiscating private property illegally. If they are good officers they would take exception and provide grievances to their superiors. They are not doing this so are part and party to infringing on the right of the citizens they are supposed to protect the rights of. They sign an oath to uphold the laws of the land and protect the citizens. They are doing the opposite.

[Scar270]

Yeah, I am waiting for a single officer to speak up. If you know 6 good ones why are they so quiet?

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[calgarychef]

The reason no one is speaking up is that they know that they broke the law. Even if given orders to do so they aren't allowed to knowingly break the law.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Scar270

Yeah, I am waiting for a single officer to speak up. If you know 6 good ones why are they so quiet?

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

25000 members signed up and 309 online.

Maybe a good chance they are out and about? Maybe they do not care about the pathetic twaddle that is non stop in here?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

25000 members signed up and 309 online.

Maybe a good chance they are out and about? Maybe they do not care about the pathetic twaddle that is non stop in here?

Maybe they are well aware of the fact, that members of the force have been breaking the laws that they are paid to uphold, and they just don't care? Maybe some of those officers either broke our laws, or are aware of officers that did, and they did nothing to put a stop to it, or to report the offenders?

[fish gunner]

Maybe its an ongoing investigation and members cannot give an opinion . Unless they were on the ground in high river it would be speculative as is 99% of this thread imho.

[hillbillyreefer]

Or a gag order was issued with words like Resolute Bay mentioned in them.

[roper1]

Out & About meaning BP or TH ? Or back @ the shop reading the ILLEGAL gun registry they certainly appear to still have their hands on ?

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Or a gag order was issued with words like Resolute Bay mentioned in them.

sorry that has no meaning what is the reference.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Maybe a good chance they are out and about? Maybe they do not care about the pathetic twaddle that is non stop in here?

No it's because they can't look us straight in the eye cause they know they are guilty. Ken I always admired how you stand up for the little guy who has been wronged. Why are you taking the side of those not living up to the oath they swore to and are trampling on the rights and victimizing law abiding citizens who have done nothing wrong. If someone kicked in the door of your house and took your guns would you would be ok with it. In this case the police have lowered them selves to the same level as the criminals they are supposed to protect us from. Criminals dont take an oath to uphold the law. The police do.

[horsepower]

People are sure mad at the ones at the bottom of the food chain. Instead of taking the pitchfork and scythes to the people wearing the boots I think we should be putting the people in the offices making the decisions that affect all those "beneath" them under scrutiny and hold them accountable for their actions. If you get a bunch of bad calves do you sell the cows or go after the bad bull....? !!!

[tonnage]

Thus, the "Fire Bob Paulson" suggestion. Next guy in wouldn't be half as arrogant.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

No it's because they can't look us straight in the eye cause they know they are guilty. Ken I always admired how you stand up for the little guy who has been wronged. Why are you taking the side of those not living up to the oath they swore to and are trampling on the rights and victimizing law abiding citizens who have done nothing wrong. If someone kicked in the door of your house and took your guns would you would be ok with it. In this case the police have lowered them selves to the same level as the criminals they are supposed to protect us from. Criminals dont take an oath to uphold the law. The police do.

Surely you do not think "ALL" RCMP are bad?

[Mekanik]

It's a bit of a hard life for some rcmp officers. You can find your life and career upended for doing the right thing, for making the wrong friends or not making friends with the right people.

You can go from a promising career in a nice community like high river or calgary and end up moving your family to a tiny little community north of nowhere in labrador.

It's pretty political.

Change is due and the political nature of the force is why it takes so long to change.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by horsepower

People are sure mad at the ones at the bottom of the food chain. Instead of taking the pitchfork and scythes to the people wearing the boots I think we should be putting the people in the offices making the decisions that affect all those "beneath" them under scrutiny and hold them accountable for their actions. If you get a bunch of bad calves do you sell the cows or go after the bad bull....? !!!

Both, especially if some calves are good.

The RCMP needs a serious dose of chemo and massive radiation to kill the cancer within it. With the way the cancer has spread the patient may be terminal.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Mekanik

It's a bit of a hard life for some rcmp officers. You can find your life and career upended for doing the right thing, for making the wrong friends or not making friends with the right people.

You can go from a promising career in a nice community like high river or calgary and end up moving your family to a tiny little community north of nowhere in labrador.

It's pretty political.

Change is due and the political nature of the force is why it takes so long to change.

You didn't mention doing the wrong thing, like illegal search and seizure, vandalism and theft, murder, assault.

Not calling you out just adding to your point

[roper1]

Originally Posted by Mekanik

It's a bit of a hard life for some rcmp officers. You can find your life and career upended for doing the right thing, for making the wrong friends or not making friends with the right people.

You can go from a promising career in a nice community like high river or calgary and end up moving your family to a tiny little community north of nowhere in labrador.

It's pretty political.

Change is due and the political nature of the force is why it takes so long to change.

Your point emphasizes one of the problems. In private industry, you would get the opportunity to work for someone else, not be transferred to said isolated outpost where your morale would certainly take a hit. In a lot of RCMP cases the reverse is true. Go work the north, transfer to High River with tenure & attitude because ya already done the hard time in the wilderness.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Surely you do not think "ALL" RCMP are bad?

Of course not. They're caught between a rock and a hard place. Unfortunately the buck stops at the top. Still, the rank and file officers realize they are breaking laws under order, they should do it under protest. Police culture says shut up and do what your told, this needs to change and it has to be done from within. The police know who is corrupt within their organization, they need to uphold the law and clean house. They remain silent. Kinda like APOS.......

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Of course not. They're caught between a rock and a hard place. Unfortunately the buck stops at the top. Still, the rank and file officers realize they are breaking laws under order, they should do it under protest. Police culture says shut up and do what your told, this needs to change and it has to be done from within. The police know who is corrupt within their organization, they need to uphold the law and clean house. They remain silent. Kinda like APOS.......

Exactly, everyone knows that not every RCMP is bad, that suggestion is just......really lame. IMO this is what the "bad" RCMP officers rely on. They expect the people to just stick their head in the sand with regard to the High River and other similar incidents where citizens rights are violated, because of all the "good" that the RCMP do. And from reading a few posts on here, you can see that it works, for a few sheep, but the majority are saying "enough" and want nothing less, and will accept nothing less................ than justice.

What the RCMP fail to realize is that the people are fed up with their criminal acts and are no longer going to stand for it. The RCMP/govt. have been dragging this out, thinking that the citizens of Alberta will just forget about what they did, and then they will continue to operate as they choose.

With the anniversary of this event approaching, and the RCMP realizing this is not going away, but escalating, we should expect to hear something in the next couple of months, at least that is what I expect. The damage control they are working on over the past few months, will be interesting to see when it actually comes out.


I am not to confident that all the officers who participated in all the criminality and corruption at High River will be actually charged, or even disciplined. This injustice will be the biggest crime of all, but they are going to have to throw someone under the bus, in attempt to save the others. They will probably get away with it, but the reputation of the RCMP throughout the country will be damaged beyond repair, and the respect once shown to them by the citizens of this country will be replaced with nothing but contempt and scorn.

Do not blame the citizens of this province, or this country for what the RCMP have become, blame the RCMP, they have done it to themselves. They have been given every opportunity to try and justify their actions, and present their defense. They refuse to do so and although they may not end up being tried by a group of their peers, they will most definitely be found guilty by them!!

[Ken07AOVette]

If I had to guess, if and when there is an an internal investigation, (and from public outcry I see that happening soon) I think we will find out where orders came from, who followed in step and who went above and beyond their scope of duty.

Up to 1200 soldiers in a Canadian Batallian are ordered by a single man.

[Dozer31]

Someone had to give the order. That is who should go to jail. The officers who carried out the order without questioning it should be reprimanded. Its that simple I think. Its finding out who gave the order that's the hard part.

[sask]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

If I had to guess, if and when there is an an internal investigation, (and from public outcry I see that happening soon) I think we will find out where orders came from, who followed in step and who went above and beyond their scope of duty.

Up to 1200 soldiers in a Canadian Batallian are ordered by a single man.

Ken

I hope we do. I don't have a lot of faith that will happen.

Whoever gave the order should face the stiffest penalty .......but anyone who followed those orders are , in my opinion guilty as well. Period.

When the 'good' members close ranks to protect these 'bad' members they get tarred with the same brush. Deservedly.

My opinion ,worth what you paid for it

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sask

Ken

I hope we do. I don't have a lot of faith that will happen.

Whoever gave the order should face the stiffest penalty .......but anyone who followed those orders are , in my opinion guilty as well. Period.

When the 'good' members close ranks to protect these 'bad' members they get tarred with the same brush. Deservedly.

My opinion ,worth what you paid for it

I don't expect a single member of the RCMP to face criminal charges. I don't even expect that we will ever find out who gave the order. What I do expect, is that several more months with pass, and then it will be announced that the investigation has been completed, and that no wrongdoing by the RCMP occurred. Then in the future, when there is an emergency, some people will refuse to leave their homes, because of this nonsense, and eventually, it will cost someone their lives.

[pickrel pat]

Ill say it again.... If my boss tells me to do something illegal and I do it, I would be the one to face the consequences of my own actions. Both upper and bottom ranks need to be reprimanded. Bottom ranks acted like sheep. Time to think for ones self.

[jhl]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't expect a single member of the RCMP to face criminal charges. I don't even expect that we will ever find out who gave the order. What I do expect, is that several more months with pass, and then it will be announced that the investigation has been completed, and that no wrongdoing by the RCMP occurred. Then in the future, when there is an emergency, some people will refuse to leave their homes, because of this nonsense, and eventually, it will cost someone their lives.

This is the truth IMO.

[slimpickens77]

The RCMP abuse is unnerving to know they can do what ever they want without being held responsible

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You do realize you just grabbed a truckload of feces and threw it at the faces of every current and former law enforcement officer ever, including the ones that frequent this forum, right?

I can name 6 right now that will likely read this, how can we make statements like this then drop into the fetal position begging for help when the bad guys prey on us?

Or do we just grab our handguns and start firing blindly, because 'when seconds count the police are minutes away'

Ken, where did you pick up this twaddle about citizens either defending their lives by "firing blindly" or "begging" for RCMP help?

Could it be that you've done too many ride-alongs and have enjoyed so much RCMP backup that you're parroting their institutional bias? Have your RCMP friends rubbed off onto you their belief that a citizen doesn't have the right or the competence to defend his or her life? That we should just call 911 and remain helpless in the face of 30 minute response times?

Yet, when as you say we "drop into the fetal position begging for help when the bad guys prey on us", you ridicule our helplessness.

If the RCMP as an institution holds to the above contradictory beliefs, then surely they have lost all respect for ordinary Canadians and are not fit to police our society.

If you can't square that circle for me try googling Stockholm Syndrome.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by blackwolf

i believe every member who broke down doors should be charged with each individual count of break, enter and theft. Each member knew there was no warrants to do so yet did so anyway. They in my mind are criminals, period and should be treated as so.

Enough of ***** footing around, these constables stole our very freedom and trust. The privilege of freedom is to guard these freedoms for our children's' children's children. If we say nothing or do nothing we are stripping away these freedoms from our children that was paid with blood. The nazi's who were hung claimed "just following orders". This is not an excuse, even in the military you could and can refuse an order for various reasons.

Everytime i see an rcmp police car, i cringe, i have lost respect for them. Everyone has to abide by the law, no one is above the law other wise our freedoms will fade one at a time. There is not a law for us and another for the police.we pay these people a lot of money to protect our freedoms and lives, who will protect us from them?

amen!

[roper1]

I hope this thread gets to 60 pages. The RCMP & the politicians, both whom supposedly represent us if we are law-abiding need to understand how frustrated we are with them trampling on our rights as Canadians. There will be a federal & provincial election shortly & I hope each & every one of us vote. I try to keep abreast of the issues & have voted in every election since I came of age in case anyone wonders.