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  #31  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Taco View Post
Just for the hell of it some time, get a postal scale and a handful of different 5 wt lines. Weigh out, in grains, the first 30' of each line and compare. You'll be shocked at the weight difference between lines, which is also why one line will "feel" better casting over another line.
I know this to be true about the differences in similarly marked lines.

TFO claims that Lefty designed their Signature Series rods, so I assume that Lefty likes a medium action deep flex rod. I have several TFO Signature series around the house for loaners and you certainly wouldn't want to over line them under any circumstances. In fact they become pretty much powered out on Rio Grand.

On the other hand, I also have several Redingtons that all cast nicer over lined.

So to say that what is written on a rod may or may not be what is best suited to that rod and that different brands or even runs of the same brand of lines may differ is common knowledge.

Now to take a good six wt and step down two line sizes because it is windy or to over line a good 4wt two line sizes because you are fishing a small stream seems a little out there.

Again I have not tried this. I generally find the line I like on a rod and stick with it.

If someone wants to bet they can cast my 6wt z-axis better on a windy day with 4 wt line, because of less wind resistance, then with 6 wt line I have cash and time.
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  #32  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:16 AM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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I always take so called rod ratings with a grain of salt. We fly anglers tend to be pretty be passionate about our flyrods, so objectivity tends to take a backseat to our personal preferences. At the risk of being called sexist, it's much like our preferences in women,,,, some like Ginger,,, others prefer Marianne (Google up Gilligan if you are too young to understand!!!)
Yes this is absolutely true.
But there are rod differances that can be conveyed to others.
And this my friend....is the point of this thread...

BTW.....I prefered Mary-Anne (humana humana )


Also....I posted b4...but will try again.
I have a chance to get a new (used 3 times) Pieroway Element 3wt for $120.
Does anyone have a review on this rod???
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  #33  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Yes this is absolutely true.
But there are rod differances that can be conveyed to others.
And this my friend....is the point of this thread...

BTW.....I prefered Mary-Anne (humana humana )


Also....I posted b4...but will try again.
I have a chance to get a new (used 3 times) Pieroway Element 3wt for $120.
Does anyone have a review on this rod???
And here lies the problem with shoot outs. Obviously the person that purchased this rod thought they were making a good choice and have now decided to sell after three uses. This does not mean you are not going to love this rod. Perhaps he would love it too had he experimented with different lines or fished an area where a 3wt was called for more often.

First day out on the water with a z-axis and I was fit to be tied. When I wasn't bull-whipping or tangled, I was ripping hooks out of fishes mouths before they had a chance to inhale. Now it is my absolute favorite.

Is the new Hardy Zenith really better than a z-axis or is it so similar that the testers cast it effortlessly?

Is the line choices used perfect for every rod in the shootout?

Does it really matter how well a 4 wt casts at 60-80 ft. ?
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  #34  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:52 AM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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[QUOTE=MK2750;1929727]And here lies the problem with shoot outs. Obviously the person that purchased this rod thought they were making a good choice and have now decided to sell after three uses. This does not mean you are not going to love this rod. Perhaps he would love it too had he experimented with different lines or fished an area where a 3wt was called for more often.

First day out on the water with a z-axis and I was fit to be tied. When I wasn't bull-whipping or tangled, I was ripping hooks out of fishes mouths before they had a chance to inhale. Now it is my absolute favorite.

Is the new Hardy Zenith really better than a z-axis or is it so similar that the testers cast it effortlessly?

Is the line choices used perfect for every rod in the shootout?


He said he doesnt fish smaller waters enough to keep it....so he said.
The Zenith out performed the Zaxis at close range within 40'...so they say.
And some say the Winston will out perform both...so they say.

Dont get too persnickity on this topic.......
Its just to gather and share "personal" information....soo says me
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  #35  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:59 AM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Yes this is absolutely true.
But there are rod differances that can be conveyed to others.
And this my friend....is the point of this thread...

BTW.....I prefered Mary-Anne (humana humana )


?
Let's not forget Skipper's "Little Buddy" Gilligan has his fans too!!!
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  #36  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:26 AM
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[QUOTE=mtngiant;1929767]
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
And here lies the problem with shoot outs. Obviously the person that purchased this rod thought they were making a good choice and have now decided to sell after three uses. This does not mean you are not going to love this rod. Perhaps he would love it too had he experimented with different lines or fished an area where a 3wt was called for more often.

First day out on the water with a z-axis and I was fit to be tied. When I wasn't bull-whipping or tangled, I was ripping hooks out of fishes mouths before they had a chance to inhale. Now it is my absolute favorite.

Is the new Hardy Zenith really better than a z-axis or is it so similar that the testers cast it effortlessly?

Is the line choices used perfect for every rod in the shootout?

He said he doesnt fish smaller waters enough to keep it....so he said.
The Zenith out performed the Zaxis at close range within 40'...so they say.
And some say the Winston will out perform both...so they say.

Dont get too persnickity on this topic.......
Its just to gather and share "personal" information....soo says me
I assume you are in the market for a new rod. If you can lay your hands on an RS4 Redington I think you will be impressed. It is medium fast to today's standards and has an action similar to the z-axis. The z is lighter and a little quicker at the tip but the RS4 has much nicer components. The reel seat and lock up is a thing of beauty IMO and the guides are of better quality. The overall finish is awesome. Lots of backbone yet can still deliver the small stuff.

The RS4 could be had for a couple hundred new and was discontinued some time ago. You should be able to score one for much less if you can find old stock.

If you want a faster river type rod the recently discontinued CPX from Redington is another beautiful rod. Jet black blank with very nice components and finish. I see them on clearance for 200 + or -. Buy one size smaller than you think you want and you will be happy. I recently picked up the new Redington Link, the replacement of the CPX. It does have a nicer tip but it pales (literally) to the CPX when it comes to finish and appearance.

Probably the best deal on the market for a stream rod is the recently discontinued zxl by Sage. You can read for hours on line and you will hardly find an ill word said. They are a med/fast rod built using the same technology as the z-axis. Many list it as their favorite of all time. I just picked one up from the Fishing Hole on close out and it looks like a keeper. I have only cast it around the yard but it feels awesome.

Like I have told you before, you are welcome to come and try some rods anytime. I am buying and selling stuff constantly so generally a pretty good selection laying around. ( this doesn't apply to the guy that has the crush on Gilligan (not that there is anything wrong with that))
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  #37  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:46 AM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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YUP.....read good reviews on the ZXL Sage and have been keeping track for it on ebay
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  #38  
Old 04-14-2013, 03:48 PM
Pudelpointer Pudelpointer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post

Now to take a good six wt and step down two line sizes because it is windy or to over line a good 4wt two line sizes because you are fishing a small stream seems a little out there.

Again I have not tried this. I generally find the line I like on a rod and stick with it.

If someone wants to bet they can cast my 6wt z-axis better on a windy day with 4 wt line, because of less wind resistance, then with 6 wt line I have cash and time.
I dare say it is likely that 'Ol Lefty could outcast you and your Z-axis using nothing but his arm (no rod in hand). Watched him cast a 90 foot line without a rod once.

Lefty's wallet would be thicker for sure.
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  #39  
Old 04-14-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pudelpointer View Post
I dare say it is likely that 'Ol Lefty could outcast you and your Z-axis using nothing but his arm (no rod in hand). Watched him cast a 90 foot line without a rod once.

Lefty's wallet would be thicker for sure.
Old Lefty would have to cast better with 4wt line on my 6wt than he could with 6wt line on my 6wt as per my post and the link provided. On a windy day no less.

Nothing against Lefty, just believe a little more in Einstein and alike.
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  #40  
Old 04-14-2013, 06:13 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
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as for the pieroway element I tried one at the fly expo in calgary. It was a nice rod. They are located here in calgary and there guys are top notch they will bring a rod to your house to try it out. I was considering having one custom built but they couldn't alter the blank length. So I put the lid on it. I would personally buy it, try it, you could get your money back if you didn't like it by selling it
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  #41  
Old 04-14-2013, 06:39 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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as for the pieroway element I tried one at the fly expo in calgary. It was a nice rod. They are located here in calgary and there guys are top notch they will bring a rod to your house to try it out. I was considering having one custom built but they couldn't alter the blank length. So I put the lid on it. I would personally buy it, try it, you could get your money back if you didn't like it by selling it
Much appreciated input....thank you kindly
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  #42  
Old 04-15-2013, 12:17 PM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
Old Lefty would have to cast better with 4wt line on my 6wt than he could with 6wt line on my 6wt as per my post and the link provided. On a windy day no less.

Nothing against Lefty, just believe a little more in Einstein and alike.
Actually there is some science in Lefty's theory,,,, over lining a rod in effect slows the rod's action and allows it to fully load with less line out the tip top, hence shorter casts are easier. The rod becomes a mid flex rod which most casters find easier to cast.

Conversely an underlined rod will carry more line outside of the tip top before it collapses. Underlining a rod turns the rod into a tip caster allowing tighter loops which will also carry better into the wind. Add to the equation there is less air drag on a thinner line. Underlining (tip casting) requires more skill from the caster in regards to timing, stroke length, and the ability to carry a long line while false casting. but in a nutshell, this is the same theory behind tournament distance casting.

Now to make an apples to apples comparison, you also need to understand that a 4 wt line was not designed to carry as large a fly as a 6 wt line. So in your distance competition with Lefty (6 wt rod / 4 wt line) and MK (6 wt rod / 6 wt line), if both of you used a #4 2 inch long sofa pillow, you might hold your own,,, but if both of you were using #14 light cahills, Lefty would take the money.

Another way and perhaps better way for most of us "less than perfect casting" anglers to beat the wind is to "up rod",,, that is change up to a matched rod / line combo 7 or 8 wt if you had been fishing a 6 wt. It is easier in this case to feel the rod load and make good casts. Generally a 50 - 60 foot cast into the wind is about as good as most of us can expect. Most 7- 8 wt rods can carry that much line with out collapsing and the heavier 7-8 wt line carries more energy to straighten out.
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  #43  
Old 04-15-2013, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Actually there is some science in Lefty's theory,,,, over lining a rod in effect slows the rod's action and allows it to fully load with less line out the tip top, hence shorter casts are easier. The rod becomes a mid flex rod which most casters find easier to cast.

Conversely an underlined rod will carry more line outside of the tip top before it collapses. Underlining a rod turns the rod into a tip caster allowing tighter loops which will also carry better into the wind. Add to the equation there is less air drag on a thinner line. Underlining (tip casting) requires more skill from the caster in regards to timing, stroke length, and the ability to carry a long line while false casting. but in a nutshell, this is the same theory behind tournament distance casting.

Now to make an apples to apples comparison, you also need to understand that a 4 wt line was not designed to carry as large a fly as a 6 wt line. So in your distance competition with Lefty (6 wt rod / 4 wt line) and MK (6 wt rod / 6 wt line), if both of you used a #4 2 inch long sofa pillow, you might hold your own,,, but if both of you were using #14 light cahills, Lefty would take the money.

Another way and perhaps better way for most of us "less than perfect casting" anglers to beat the wind is to "up rod",,, that is change up to a matched rod / line combo 7 or 8 wt if you had been fishing a 6 wt. It is easier in this case to feel the rod load and make good casts. Generally a 50 - 60 foot cast into the wind is about as good as most of us can expect. Most 7- 8 wt rods can carry that much line with out collapsing and the heavier 7-8 wt line carries more energy to straighten out.
No where did MK say that he could cast any rod with any line better than Lefty. The comparison was the same person using a 4wt line on a 6wt z-axis rod compared to a 6wt line on a 6wt z-axis rod.

This also is not a distance only competition. It is cast better with accuracy being a factor as well.

Top end rod designers make rods to get the appropriate distance with the appropriate line wt. I believe that sometimes they over do it and the rod will load and cast better with heavier line but this is more likely due to a lack of casting ability on my part. I have not seen the opposite in my limited experience.

Your example of the 7 or 8wt combo proves this point. If the rod is designed properly it will load and launch it's designated line wt perfectly. The heavier the line the longer the cast and ability to fight wind. If the line is too heavy or too light for the rod this theory falls apart.

Perhaps in a rod designed like the Lefty TFO Signature Series there could be an argument that a lighter line is better. What this is really saying, is that you have a 5 or 6wt rod that only has enough back bone to cast 4wt line.

If you look at a rod design like Sage, you put the right size line on it and expect maximum distance and superior performance at all distances.
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  #44  
Old 04-15-2013, 06:50 PM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Shooting heads aside,,,, the key to maximum distance (and accuracy too) is the ability to carry a long line outside the tip. ( Some "tournament" fly lines have 75 foot heads.) All fly rods at some point will "collapse" if you try to carry too much weight outside the tip. many rods today can handle a range of 3 - 4 line weights. So all other things being equal, a lighter (thinner) line will allow the caster to carry more line outside the tip than a heavier line.

Distance casting and casting into the wind are not the same thing,,, but if have the mechanics (double haul, stroke length and timing) to go the distance, you will be able to punch flylines into the wind much easier.
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  #45  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:32 PM
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I have a 8' 5 wht Sonoma by Leland Fly Fishing. I haven't caught anything on it yet. That will change this year, I hope.
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  #46  
Old 04-15-2013, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Shooting heads aside,,,, the key to maximum distance (and accuracy too) is the ability to carry a long line outside the tip. ( Some "tournament" fly lines have 75 foot heads.) All fly rods at some point will "collapse" if you try to carry too much weight outside the tip. many rods today can handle a range of 3 - 4 line weights. So all other things being equal, a lighter (thinner) line will allow the caster to carry more line outside the tip than a heavier line.

Distance casting and casting into the wind are not the same thing,,, but if have the mechanics (double haul, stroke length and timing) to go the distance, you will be able to punch flylines into the wind much easier.
The article is on a Scientific Angler web site designed to sell more line. The vast majority of people have one rod (a 5 or 6wt) and one line that lasts them one to several season. This sucks for company profits so they have Lefty suggest you have several lines for your rod.

A light line will perform poorly on a modern fast action rods under the vast majority of circumstances. This is especially true between 20-60 ft where most fish are caught. Light lining a rod so you might cast 80 ft while sacrificing medium and short performance is insane and nothing more than a sales pitch. For a distance competition only with a specially designed line it might work but it still makes absolutely no sense for fishing.

Lets pretend I have three rods. A medium action 8.5 4wt for streams and small dry flies, a fast action 9' 6wt for rivers and still waters under normal conditions, and an extra fast 9' 8wt for big fish and/or windy conditions.

Using the logic of the link provided, I should put the 4wt line on the 6wt if it gets windy or the 6wt line on the 8wt??? If I am going stream fishing I should huck the 4wt trout taper and go with 6wt or put 8wt line on my 6 wt???

If you want to put a size light line on your rods that is your decision. Or like Lefty says; get several of these $50-$90 lines and experiment. It is just bad advice for the vast majority of people and meant to sell more line to people that don't need it.

My offer still stands if anyone wants to cast 4wt line better on my z than the 6 wt it is designed for.
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  #47  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:05 AM
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Most big name commercial rods sold can easily carry one line heavier. Manufacturerers do this as a sales tool, when you compare rods the first thing that stands out is the rod that casts the farthest. Custom builders have been to one degree or another been pushing for a standard way of measuring performance. The big names will not submit their rods to this measuring system, although the privatieer's regularly test them and publish the results. I have tested every rod I can get my hands on and can pretty much predict how a rod will behave when cast. I can also confirm that rods do loss stiffness over time, I have one that lost a 1/4 of a line weight in one year. That was through heavy use though. I have included a link to the measuring system for those that might be interested.

http://www.common-cents.info/

Here is one data bank site, sadly they are disappearing, for comparative purposes the ERN refers to the Effective Rod Number and the AA is how fast the rod action is. A number over about a 69 would be a fast action and below around a 65 would be med. It's a bit to get your mind around but when you understand the system it makes it very easy to get the blank you want. There are a few blank manufacturers that publish there numbers, I support them by buying my blanks from them. This system would be of great benefit to any rod, it's just a matter of getting manufacturers to publish the numbers.

http://www.sexyloops.com/eric/databa...ablesorted.php
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  #48  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
The article is on a Scientific Angler web site designed to sell more line. The vast majority of people have one rod (a 5 or 6wt) and one line that lasts them one to several season. This sucks for company profits so they have Lefty suggest you have several lines for your rod.
Not quite, I first read that article in Field and Stream 30yrs ago.
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  #49  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:32 AM
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A light line will perform poorly on a modern fast action rods under the vast majority of circumstances. This is especially true between 20-60 ft where most fish are caught. Light lining a rod so you might cast 80 ft while sacrificing medium and short performance is insane and nothing more than a sales pitch. For a distance competition only with a specially designed line it might work but it still makes absolutely no sense for fishing...........

..........My offer still stands if anyone wants to cast 4wt line better on my z than the 6 wt it is designed for.
I have to disagree,it absolutely makes sense for fishing if the type of fishing you are doing requires or at least benefits from longer casts.For example,casting/stripping streamers from a lakeshore,saltwater flats,or my personal favorite type of flyfishing,swinging wets for salmon.Being able to cover more water or extending your reach is plain and simply gonna put your fly in front of more fish.I've regularly underlined my 8wt salmon rods with 7 and even 6wt lines and instantly gained 20-25%(?) distance,which translates to reaching lies that I otherwise could not.
Conversely,it makes perfect sense to upline your lite rod by a line weight or two if most of your fishing is on tiny creeks where a 30-40 ft cast is unheard of.
I have to agree with Pikebreath for the most part,although I'm not sure if I can wrap my head around how under/over lining a rod changes the loading characteristics as he's suggested,ie;tip flex,full deep flex etc.??For instance the AFTMA system rates a 5wt rod based on it being matched to 5wt line that weighs 140gr @ 30'.I'm not sure I get how the rod "knows" if you are using say for example 40' of 3wt line or 20ft of 7wt line to achieve that same 140gr outside of the tip?Regardless,the basic premise is sound,underline for long casting and overline for short.I'm not saying one should go out and buy 3 lines for every rod,but if the majority of your fishing leans towards one extreme or the other,there's nothing wrong with up or down sizing your go-to line to match your conditions,distance required,personal casting style/stroke etc.


In regards to your Z-Axis 6wt challenge,I guess that depends how you define casting "better"?Personally speaking,again going back to swinging wets salmon fishing,to me longer=better,so unless you can shoot a 6wt line 100' to the backing with that Z,I'm gonna say yes,I could cast it "better" with a 4 or 5wt line....jest sayin'.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:00 AM
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Not quite, I first read that article in Field and Stream 30yrs ago.
If that be the case than I agree with the article. The rods I have from thirty years ago are med to slow action. In fact my son has 4wt line on his grandfather's 6 or 7wt fiberglass rod. For modern fast rods it still seems stranger than fiction to me.
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  #51  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:26 AM
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I have to disagree,it absolutely makes sense for fishing if the type of fishing you are doing requires or at least benefits from longer casts.For example,casting/stripping streamers from a lakeshore,saltwater flats,or my personal favorite type of flyfishing,swinging wets for salmon.Being able to cover more water or extending your reach is plain and simply gonna put your fly in front of more fish.I've regularly underlined my 8wt salmon rods with 7 and even 6wt lines and instantly gained 20-25%(?) distance,which translates to reaching lies that I otherwise could not.
Conversely,it makes perfect sense to upline your lite rod by a line weight or two if most of your fishing is on tiny creeks where a 30-40 ft cast is unheard of.
I have to agree with Pikebreath for the most part,although I'm not sure if I can wrap my head around how under/over lining a rod changes the loading characteristics as he's suggested,ie;tip flex,full deep flex etc.??For instance the AFTMA system rates a 5wt rod based on it being matched to 5wt line that weighs 140gr @ 30'.I'm not sure I get how the rod "knows" if you are using say for example 40' of 3wt line or 20ft of 7wt line to achieve that same 140gr outside of the tip?Regardless,the basic premise is sound,underline for long casting and overline for short.I'm not saying one should go out and buy 3 lines for every rod,but if the majority of your fishing leans towards one extreme or the other,there's nothing wrong with up or down sizing your go-to line to match your conditions,distance required,personal casting style/stroke etc.


In regards to your Z-Axis 6wt challenge,I guess that depends how you define casting "better"?Personally speaking,again going back to swinging wets salmon fishing,to me longer=better,so unless you can shoot a 6wt line 100' to the backing with that Z,I'm gonna say yes,I could cast it "better" with a 4 or 5wt line....jest sayin'.
Obviously if you are trying to throw heavy streamers that are overloading your rod one could compensate with a lighter line.

The article makes no mention of that. The article states that during windy condition you can gain more distance into the wind by choosing a lighter line.

In regards to my z-axis challenge, I was not thinking one would be throwing flies designed for a 8 or 9 wt salt water rod.

I would recommend for you, having thrown a few thousand streamers at salmon, that you move up to the proper rod weight for the flies you want to present. I have seen dozens of newbie salmon fishers with big streamers embedded in them because they were underlined when a gust of wind hits their line. You may have the experience to "chuck and duck" but it is bad advise for an open forum.
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  #52  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:56 AM
grinr grinr is offline
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Obviously if you are trying to throw heavy streamers that are overloading your rod one could compensate with a lighter line.

The article makes no mention of that. The article states that during windy condition you can gain more distance into the wind by choosing a lighter line.

In regards to my z-axis challenge, I was not thinking one would be throwing flies designed for a 8 or 9 wt salt water rod.

I would recommend for you, having thrown a few thousand streamers at salmon, that you move up to the proper rod weight for the flies you want to present. I have seen dozens of newbie salmon fishers with big streamers embedded in them because they were underlined when a gust of wind hits their line. You may have the experience to "chuck and duck" but it is bad advise for an open forum.
Well first of all,I'm not talking about chucking heavy streamers that are overloading a rod,I'm talking about gaining distance by underlining an 8wt with 6 or 7 line,thus carrying more line outside of the tip when false casting before shooting for the backing.
Secondly,for the most part I'm referring to Atlantic salmon fishing where A)extra distance is often an advantage on the larger rivers.
B)I'm using an appropriately matched rod,....and C)I'm never chucking heavy streamers,weighted flies are in fact illegal for Atlantic salmon.For the most part I'm talking about casting un-weighted hairwing wets,bugs,and dries in the sz 2-8 range.Underlining my 8wt with 6-7 line makes it easier to pick up and false cast 50-60' of line when you're trying to shoot for a lie 80-100' away and longer casts simply swing thru more water and cover a pool more thoroughly.

Now that said,I've seen some excellent casters that can fire an entire 100' 8wt line to the backing while casting with either hand.Personally speaking,I'm doing well to reach 100' with my dominant right arm,including my 12' leader on a good day with a light downstream breeze and cheating down to a 7wt line,but then I've only been trying stretch it to the backing for 25years,I probly just need a lil more practice?
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  #53  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:56 AM
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MK2750 MK2750 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by grinr View Post
Well first of all,I'm not talking about chucking heavy streamers that are overloading a rod,I'm talking about gaining distance by underlining an 8wt with 6 or 7 line,thus carrying more line outside of the tip when false casting before shooting for the backing.
Secondly,for the most part I'm referring to Atlantic salmon fishing where A)extra distance is often an advantage on the larger rivers.
B)I'm using an appropriately matched rod,....and C)I'm never chucking heavy streamers,weighted flies are in fact illegal for Atlantic salmon.For the most part I'm talking about casting un-weighted hairwing wets,bugs,and dries in the sz 2-8 range.Underlining my 8wt with 6-7 line makes it easier to pick up and false cast 50-60' of line when you're trying to shoot for a lie 80-100' away and longer casts simply swing thru more water and cover a pool more thoroughly.

Now that said,I've seen some excellent casters that can fire an entire 100' 8wt line to the backing while casting with either hand.Personally speaking,I'm doing well to reach 100' with my dominant right arm,including my 12' leader on a good day with a light downstream breeze and cheating down to a 7wt line,but then I've only been trying stretch it to the backing for 25years,I probly just need a lil more practice?
I grew up on an Atlantic Salmon river and spent many hours just watching in awe as casters from all over the world did things with fly rods that have to be seen to believe.

I also was able to spend time with many of these folks as they were eager to offer tips to a young fellow.

Underlining a rod was not one on the tips given but perhaps it was a secret trick of the trade that was not shared. I have lines of different tapers from 4wt to 8wt so on the next breezy day i will test this theory in spite of the laws of physics as I understand them.

The same theories often come up on the shooting forms as to weight of bullet, length of bullet, speed, calibre blah, blah, blah and it's effects on accuracy when shooting at distance. There is a line that is crossed where lightweight and speed become a hindrance to control and accuracy, especially under windy conditions. If somehow these laws do not apply to fly rods and lines I will be the first to admit it after testing the theory further.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:23 PM
grinr grinr is offline
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I guess it just makes sense to me that if an 8wt rod calls for an 8wt line that optimally should weigh 210gr @30',and if you were to drop to a 6wt line which is 160gr@30',your line at 30' weighs approximately 25% less.Just guessing,but let's say it takes 45' of 6WF to equal the same 210grs of an identical brand 8WF line,because the running line that your gaining weighs much less than the WF head,then theoretically that's 15 extra feet that you can comfortably carry outside the guides meaning 15' less that you have to shoot if you're going for distance,no??
I dunno...works for me I guess?I always spool
my 8wt salmon rods with 7WFF because it's rare that I fish them on smaller rivers or fish shorter than 50-60',I'm more likely to be reaching for 80-90' and often times wishing for 100+.
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  #55  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:21 PM
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I understand the theory and like I said I will admit if it works out that way. I am thinking the 15 extra feet of line in the air like in your example is going to catch a lot more wind and trump any mechanical advantage gained by the extra weight out side the tip.

I may be out to lunch, but when I am trying to reach out and touch something I back cast as much line as the rod can handle with a sharp pull with my free (left) hand. Also in my left hand is a loose coil of extra line that I let feed off my hand after the air borne line is maxed out. Less line in the air means more control, less chance of hitting something behind me, less chance of over powering the rod, more line speed and IMO maximum distance.

I have been wrong before, so it certainly won't be something new.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:45 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Just got back from a local fly shop and fired the new TFO 7'-3'' 2wt Finesse series rod.....and fell in luv on the first swing.
Soooo light/smooth and fairly quick action w/ enough backbone to hit 40' w/ ease.
A definite thumbs up review.

Tried a TFO and Sage 3wt as well.

I just may change my mind from a 3wt purchase to a 2wt.

Last edited by MtnGiant; 04-16-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:06 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Hate to bust the bubble but line weight for any rod is the OPINION of the manufacturer. How do I know that - 'cause I make them. Note the word make! I tell any purchaser that this is what I think the rod likes for line weight however, the purchaser's opinion may be different than mine and is no less valid.
I remember a guy who bought a 2 wt. and couldn't cast it worth crap. He left it for me to see what I could do. All it took was a five weight line to make the rod work well. He wasn't pleased.
The message here is use whatever line weight does the job for YOU!

Don
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:01 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Just got back from a local fly shop and fired the new TFO 7'-3'' 2wt Finesse series rod.....and fell in luv on the first swing.
Soooo light/smooth and fairly quick action w/ enough backbone to hit 40' w/ ease.
A definite thumbs up review.

Tried a TFO and Sage 3wt as well.

I just may change my mind from a 3wt purchase to a 2wt.

I forgot to add that the 2wt rod was loaded with a 4wt line.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post
Hate to bust the bubble but line weight for any rod is the OPINION of the manufacturer. How do I know that - 'cause I make them. Note the word make! I tell any purchaser that this is what I think the rod likes for line weight however, the purchaser's opinion may be different than mine and is no less valid.
I remember a guy who bought a 2 wt. and couldn't cast it worth crap. He left it for me to see what I could do. All it took was a five weight line to make the rod work well. He wasn't pleased.
The message here is use whatever line weight does the job for YOU!

Don
You are not busting any bubbles as we are already aware that one must find the right line for a particular rod regardless of what is written on the rod or on the box the line came in.

Our discussion, if you read the link, is the effects of changing lines on one rod for different circumstances or conditions. For the sake of the conversation we were assuming a properly marked rod and lines.

It is my opinion that casting the heaviest line the rod will handle will maximize distance and control when casting long in windy conditions. The added weight will keep the line on track bucking the wind and that a heavier object in motion is harder to slow down using the laws of physics.

The other opinion (as Lefty promotes in the link) is to drop one or even two line weights. The logic is that a person can have 10 or 15 ft more line outside the tip when casting without over powering the rod, that the rod will load as usual with this extra length of line, and that the thinner line will cut through the wind better adding distance to the cast.

I would like to hear your opinion on this.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
I forgot to add that the 2wt rod was loaded with a 4wt line.
You should tell us the models of the other rods you tried and what you did or didn't like about them.

Now if a 2wt rod casts 4wt line perfectly is it a 2wt or an improperly marked 4wt.? Maybe you really wanted a 4wt when you tried out the 3wt which lead you to the 2wt which really is the 4wt you wanted all the time.

That is unless the line is marked wrong and you really need a 6 wt that throws 4wt line a mile.
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