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Old 04-28-2018, 12:02 PM
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Canuck Bob Canuck Bob is offline
 
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Default Anyone ever built a flintlock kit?

I'm hoping for real life experiences from anyone who tried this successful or not. My focus is a kit like Track of the Wolf produces in flintlock. However the more finished kits like the Lyman are also interesting. It will be a left hand side lock. My current flinter is a LH .54 Deerstalker which I like but it is a lot of rifle for range only. I no longer hunt. I'm handy enough and have the required tools.

Something a little more historical from the late flint era is interesting. Maybe a NW Trade or an English sporting rifle from a kit manufacturer like Track, TVM, Chambers, Etc.. I'm not a purist and will use modern vent liners, rifles instead of smoothbore, good iron sights and probably smaller bores like .36 or .45.

How did you handle the metal finishing?

How did you acquire the kit?

How long from start to finish?

Is it just more sensible to buy the rifle in the white or finished?
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:08 PM
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L&R furniture and lock, Hawken half stock metal finished with Laurel Mountain browning solution
Fast lock time and accurate
However I am a cap lock guy , sold the flinch lock!
Cat
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
L&R furniture and lock, Hawken half stock metal finished with Laurel Mountain browning solution
Fast lock time and accurate
However I am a cap lock guy , sold the flinch lock!
Cat
Thanks Cat..., would you please outline why someone of your experience likes cap better? I bought a flintlock because I could order direct from the States. I missed this question above. Also was that L&R lock what you expected out of the box?
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:55 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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Instead of the kits why not buy the parts . TOW has all the parts you need and you can make exactly what you want. I have used L&R locks and TC, Investarm /Lyman locks with no diference in function or speed. Real flints and Real Black powder are far more important than the lock maker.

My next flinter is going to be a Southern Mountain 36cal 42" barrel , full stock from walnut, if I get around to starting it.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Canuck Bob View Post
Thanks Cat..., would you please outline why someone of your experience likes cap better? I bought a flintlock because I could order direct from the States. I missed this question above. Also was that L&R lock what you expected out of the box?
Dunno why, same as some like pumps over semi autos or like me, prefer single shots to repeating rifles
L&R locks (and Silers) are fantastic
I shot a Lyman Hawken for a few years and it was a good gun after I tuned it up
The biggest complaint I have with some of the Itslian locks , especially the coil spring locks is under heavy charges they can come back to half cock.
The triggers are also not as good quality or as accurate and consistent but they can be toned to an extent
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!

Last edited by catnthehat; 04-28-2018 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by petew View Post
Instead of the kits why not buy the parts . TOW has all the parts you need and you can make exactly what you want. I have used L&R locks and TC, Investarm /Lyman locks with no diference in function or speed. Real flints and Real Black powder are far more important than the lock maker.

My next flinter is going to be a Southern Mountain 36cal 42" barrel , full stock from walnut, if I get around to starting it.
Actually I am leaning this way. To get a lefty that I like it seems likely to be from a RH kit or plan modified to to LH. I almost bought a North Star West Chief's Grade LH musket kit but got sick and now they are gone.

Just ordered in English knapped flints and use only Goex BP.

I think I can cobble up the stock from a local blank and design it in a simple Trade or Poor Boy type in steel furniture. The Lyman GPR slow twist rifle is interesting and simple but it is heavy at over 9 lbs. in the specs list.

First the summer and fall are dedicated to the Deerstalker and learning black powder muzzleloading.

Last edited by Canuck Bob; 04-28-2018 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:47 PM
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I too am left handed. I shoot LH flinter guns and I have put more than a few together. From what you have written, this will be a paper puncher only. If correct a 40 Cal is what you want. They shoot well, buck wind far better than a 32 or 36, are are generally easier to get along with. That said, I love my 32, but I use it for small game more than paper.

If you are going to shoot paper, are you shooting offhand, trail walks, group shooting from rest or something else; as all of these makes the style of rifle you want change. For sure in the 40 caliber make sure you get a swamped barrel, more money but they balance far better and are significantly lighter than a straight or straight tapered barrel. Order the barrel with a normal breech, patent breeches are no advantage in a flintlock and are more difficult to clean well. If you are using liners order three, get them all drilled .060, just shy of 1/16. Great starting spot for fast ignition. You can always open it up a little more later on if you want.

Be careful what steel you buy in the barrel. Most ML are made of 12L14. It is very soft and while it stands up okay it is pretty much the same as stuff made 300 years ago. I much prefer barrels made of gun modern quality steel and they aren't all that much more money. Ed Rayl makes some barrels out of 8620 and he may be using 4150 as well. Jim McLemore uses certified for gun barrels grade 4150 as does Sleepy Hills Barrels.
Rice make some barrels that are 4150 as does Green Mountain if I remember correctly.
Rice would be my preferred supplier due to quality and broad choice of contours but any of them that makes the better quality steel barrels is just fine as long as they can so the length, twist and contour/swamp you are looking for.

As far as stock making goes, I would recommend you order a pre-carved stock that fits the barrel and Lock you get. There are lots of places that will do this very inexpensively once you know what style gun you want to build. Also, get barrel wedges instead of pins. The pins make removing the barrel a true pain in the butt.

Chambers makes EXCELLENT fully tuned locks, I also have some L and Rs because they make lots of lefty's but they must be tuned by an expert to get the most out of them.

If you tell me exactly what type of target shooting you want to mostly do I can tell you what type of styles to look into closer.
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Old 04-28-2018, 03:20 PM
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Canuck Bob Canuck Bob is offline
 
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Dean, my shooting is range shooting by myself or with a buddy. My main interest is offhand shooting at 50 meters and maybe 100 meters. It will include a hasty sling support and crossed sticks due to a right arm tremor.

My biggest problem is the result of years of fighting cancer and arthritis. I just went into remission after an extended period of severe chemo. I'm celebrating by shooting again in retirement.

Is woods walking what I call woods loafing (plinking in the bush)? If so that is definitely in the cards.

The recommendation for .40 caliber is really interesting. As well Cat has me considering a percussion rifle. I suspect ordering percussion parts or rifles from the States might be a big hassle though.
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Old 04-28-2018, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck Bob View Post

The recommendation for .40 caliber is really interesting. As well Cat has me considering a percussion rifle. I suspect ordering percussion parts or rifles from the States might be a big hassle though.
My suggestion would be to try and fire as many styles as you can both flinter and cap lock before you decide!
I originally thought I wanted a Lancaster County style long rifle but over the years found that I really like the half stocked plains style rifles, regardless of caliber.
I have built , hunted with and competed with a few flinters but can't seem too get away from thee big Hawken style rifles!
However, I do have friends who started with flint or went from cap lock to flint and never looked back!
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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Old 04-28-2018, 07:42 PM
NW Tradegunner NW Tradegunner is offline
 
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Another company that puts out a good product in various stages of work is Caywood. They offer a numbe of different types of guns. I have their northwest trade gun and few of my friends have either the standard trade gun or the chief's model. A little better product than Track of the Wolf and a lot lighter barrel. Right now I'm finishing up a left hand English fowler in 12 ga.; with all steel furniture that came from TOTW.
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  #11  
Old 04-28-2018, 09:08 PM
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Jim Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle, in .40 cal

Rice barrel, Chambers lock. kit is $995 USD, all in.

Newbie builders are finishing these in a couple weeks, but it’s up to you. Simply a great rifle. Check it out at:

https://www.jimkibler.net/rifle-16.html

I will be ordering one in the next few weeks. There is a couple month wait, but that is fine, as long as I have it for the fall. Look at the crate he ships the kit in!
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine View Post
Jim Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle, in .40 cal

Rice barrel, Chambers lock. kit is $995 USD, all in.

Newbie builders are finishing these in a couple weeks, but it’s up to you. Simply a great rifle. Check it out at:

https://www.jimkibler.net/rifle-16.html

I will be ordering one in the next few weeks. There is a couple month wait, but that is fine, as long as I have it for the fall. Look at the crate he ships the kit in!
Whoever put that Southern Mountain Rifle together that they have on their website does truly excellent work. The wood to metal fit, architecture and flow of the rifle is truly outstanding.

CB

I like Flint because they are cheap to shoot, 40 to 150 rounds out of one flint, a 40 cal gets about 175 rounds per pound, and are a real fun challenge to learn to shoot them well. Shooting offhand, and shooting off of crossed sticks are two very traditional methods. Very few muzzle loaders, except military guns and most of those were smooth bores, had slings. None had permanently attached slings except military pieces.

A woods walk can be loafing in the woods but in BP it usually means a trail at a range with a series of 20 to 50 targets set up a different ranges that you shoot with rifle, pistol, or throw hawk or knife at. All shooting is off hand with open sites.

Given your right arm issues, I would not go for sure with a swamped barrel. Any of the American styles you like, a Yeager or an English hunting rifle would work well for the type of shooting you want to do. If they did them in LH the The Southern Mountain rifle Carbine posted the link to in 40 Cal is only 7 Lbs and would make a real good first project for a beginner builder as it is complete and just needs finishing. That said there are lots of good quality kits available in left hand, just go through the builders till you find a style you like.

These guys make LH Southern Rifles and a number of other styles in LH. It also gives you a pretty good idea of the different styles.

http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleload.../southern-rifl

Last edited by Dean2; 04-29-2018 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:01 AM
Carbine Carbine is offline
 
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Hello Dean2,

I agree fully with how that Kibler SMR looks, it’s lines, the flow, the balance you just know it’s going to have when hoisted. And one in .40, perfection. I can’t stop looking at it. His prototype is rifle #16 on his main site, under Samples of Work.
It is unfortunate that it is not available in a LH, but hopefully that will change. I am sure Jim is getting enquires on doing them. But, as you say, TVM does, as does TOTW, and others.

CB,

Getting flintlock kits shipped here is not a problem. Percusssion parts, like a replacement L&R RPL lock to upgrade a Lyman, T/C or CVA sidelock should not be a problem either. I am just about to do this, so will find out for sure. Others may know more though. As Dean2 says, check out TVM’s LH kits. And go .40, great all round caliber for what you want to do.

Some great BP folks reside here on AO.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:43 AM
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Percussion is not regulated coming out of the States, they are not classed as firearms just like FL and antiques and neither are the parts. There are no regulations on importing them here since we don't have to register long guns. With a percussion you do need a PAL however, which is not need for Flint Lock long guns. I have never had any problems getting percussion parts from the States. TOW is very good at shipping stuff up here, as are many of he other suppliers.
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:10 PM
Carbine Carbine is offline
 
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Thanks Dean2,

I’ll be getting my L&R RPL from TOTW.

Canuck Bob, check out the Late Lancaster Rifle at TVM. Kit is $775, and you can get it with a LH Siler Lock. And, they will do a .40

As far as slings go, check out the ones at the Log Cabin Shop. Designed for Trad BP guns, they are lace on and sturdy. That will help you with carry. Won’t marr the finish either.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:49 PM
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Canuck Bob Canuck Bob is offline
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions. In research on collector auction sites the late flint HBC trade musket is interesting for a first build. Simple and many good kit suppliers. Also stumbled on info for Canadian gunsmiths from the mid-1800s era. They seem to focus on percussion rifles that look to my eye the same as American sporting rifles of the era.

I've bookmarked the above suppliers as well, thanks.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine View Post
Hello Dean2,

CB,

Getting flintlock kits shipped here is not a problem. Percusssion parts, like a replacement L&R RPL lock to upgrade a Lyman, T/C or CVA sidelock should not be a problem either. I am just about to do this, so will find out for sure. Others may know more though. As Dean2 says, check out TVM’s LH kits. And go .40, great all round caliber for what you want to do.

Some great BP folks reside here on AO.
Carbine, what rifle are you installing the RPL on? Have you received it yet? Apparently they will make LH models sometimes.

Your advice on 40 cal rings true. Just visited Cabelas website and they are asking $50 for a can of Goex! A 70 gn charge is .50 cents per shot alone. A Hornady 54 ball is .25. Wow, 75 cents for powder and ball alone. Gonna contact Hill Folk for their pricing! Pyrodex RS for a percussion gun is $35 and add a cap it is the same. These numbers are more likely to cancel the build than anything. I cast so once the ball size is confirmed that drops at least.
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck Bob View Post
Carbine, what rifle are you installing the RPL on? Have you received it yet? Apparently they will make LH models sometimes.

Your advice on 40 cal rings true. Just visited Cabelas website and they are asking $50 for a can of Goex! A 70 gn charge is .50 cents per shot alone. A Hornady 54 ball is .25. Wow, 75 cents for powder and ball alone. Gonna contact Hill Folk for their pricing! Pyrodex RS for a percussion gun is $35 and add a cap it is the same. These numbers are more likely to cancel the build than anything. I cast so once the ball size is confirmed that drops at least.
Most gun shows there is someone there selling BP for under 30 a pound. The Sherwood Park BP shoot has a fellow there every time, can never remember his name, last powder was $24. A good target load for the 40 cal will be 35-45 grains so even at 45 grains, less than 20 cents a shot.
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:35 PM
Carbine Carbine is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck Bob View Post
Carbine, what rifle are you installing the RPL on? Have you received it yet? Apparently they will make LH models sometimes.

Your advice on 40 cal rings true. Just visited Cabelas website and they are asking $50 for a can of Goex! A 70 gn charge is .50 cents per shot alone. A Hornady 54 ball is .25. Wow, 75 cents for powder and ball alone. Gonna contact Hill Folk for their pricing! Pyrodex RS for a percussion gun is $35 and add a cap it is the same. These numbers are more likely to cancel the build than anything. I cast so once the ball size is confirmed that drops at least.
It's going on an early Made in USA CVA Mountain Rifle .50, that was equipped with a Douglas barrel from new. Maple stock, etc. A rifle worth spending a few bucks on. One of these won at Friendship in 1989, not that I ever would. I have my new lock, which will be a great upgrade.
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