Recent banking experiences

[pdog15]

I’m in Calgary and am getting the feeling that the major banks have become increasingly more intrusive, controlling, over- reaching over the last three years or so. Wondering if others are getting the same feeling. The CBC Go Public exposure a couple years ago pretty clearly showed the banks were very into pressure selling of their products by their front end people and not necessarily explaining the downsides. My trust level has certainly gone down and have to wonder if this is still going on. Was into one bank recently - wife and I were discussing a savings account that was in her name. I had a couple of questions for the “teller” and he turned to me and said “I can’t talk to you”- deadpan delivery, no explanation, just ignorance. I have never had this reaction in my life from a teller. It was obvious my wife wanted a bit of help for clarification so I tried a second time and got the same response from the teller. We eventually got the very minor business done but it was not a pleasant experience. Still processing what I’m going to do abut this, if anything, as it may be the current big city attitude we have to deal with these days. The teller had to have been schooled in his approach from above. Not convenient to change branches/banks as this may well be the new way of doing business regardless of which bank.

[skidderman]

Been dealing with CIBC for 30 plus yrs & have not seen what you are seeing. Yet anyway.

[buckbrush]

A few years ago I was saving money for something and just putting it in my savings account. I got a call from a CIBC rep and they said "We noticed you have a large amount of money in your account and were wondering what you planned to do with it?"

That kind of caught me off guard and I'm not sure why but it made me mad. Like I know they need access to that but still felt like an invasion.

I told them it was non of their business and not to call me for stuff like that again.

[midgetwaiter]

Sounds to me like the teller did the right thing but handled it badly. Privacy legislation makes no automatic provision for your spouse, you have the same right to information about an account in her name as a complete stranger. I’ve had the same run around trying to manage my wife’s wireless plan and such. I know it seems absurd with her standing right there but the way the regulations are written, there’s not much room for judgement calls.

It’s annoying but there’s good reasons behind it.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Sounds to me like the teller did the right thing but handled it badly. Privacy legislation makes no automatic provision for your spouse, you have the same right to information about an account in her name as a complete stranger. I’ve had the same run around trying to manage my wife’s wireless plan and such. I know it seems absurd with her standing right there but the way the regulations are written, there’s not much room for judgement calls.

It’s annoying but there’s good reasons behind it.

Someone is selling you a bill of goods. None of the privacy legislation or riules say anything of the sort. The bank cannot release information about your wife's bank account to you, UNLESS, they have her permission to do so. Her standing right beside you should be clear enough but if still in doubt the teller only had to ask her if it was okay if she discussed details of the transaction with you. The same holds true for every other "Privacy" argument. The person who's private information it is can always agree to its release and to have a representative deal with the provider.

I was in banking for over 35 years, what you are seeing is either staff that aren't trained properly, someone with a bad attitude, or someone who has been very badly managed and is terrified of making any kind of a decision or mistake. My bet would be on number 3. Talk to the branch manager if you are getting this kind of treatment, not even the big Banks want unhappy clients for no good reason.


As to the call about the large account balance, the person calling doesn't really care what you want to spend it on, they were trying to determine your timeline to expenditure. They were calling to see if there was a better option for you to make some interest or return that beats the 1/4 percent you make in a savings account. She may have worded it or approached it badly but that is the Bank actually trying to help you out. You can have them tag your account if you don't want that kind of help.

The one thing I have noticed the last few years is the level of training of most branch staff is very poor in many branches and it doesn't seem to be any one bank, they all show this problem. Poorly trained staff do not provide top notch service because they don't know how.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Someone is selling you a bill of goods. None of the privacy legislation or riules say anything of the sort. The bank cannot release information about your wife's bank account to you, UNLESS, they have her permission to do so. Her standing right beside you should be clear enough but if still in doubt the teller only had to ask her if it was okay if she discussed details of the transaction with you. The same holds true for every other "Privacy" argument. The person who's private information it is can always agree to its release and to have a representative deal with the provider.

The fact she was standing there does not confer consent, it must be explicit. The teller could have handled it better but they were following the rules. You know damn well why those rules are in place too.

I agree with your comment on training but it’s basically a pay peanuts get monkeys kinda problem IMO.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

A few years ago I was saving money for something and just putting it in my savings account. I got a call from a CIBC rep and they said "We noticed you have a large amount of money in your account and were wondering what you planned to do with it?"

That kind of caught me off guard and I'm not sure why but it made me mad. Like I know they need access to that but still felt like an invasion.

I told them it was non of their business and not to call me for stuff like that again.

My 94 year old mother got this same call with the same question. She thought about it for a few minutes then told the caller that it was a coincidence they called on the very day she was planning to close her account after many, many years. She seemed to feel it was none of their business what she did with her money.

The credit union does a merger, rework, upgrade or something they claim will improve service. Everything except lowering service charges.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

A few years ago I was saving money for something and just putting it in my savings account. I got a call from a CIBC rep and they said "We noticed you have a large amount of money in your account and were wondering what you planned to do with it?"

That kind of caught me off guard and I'm not sure why but it made me mad. Like I know they need access to that but still felt like an invasion.

I told them it was non of their business and not to call me for stuff like that again.

You do realize they are trying to make you more interest on your savings, right?
A lot of people don’t realize that there are simple things they can do to get a better interest rate.
I’d be more upset if I found out that I could have made a much better return on my money but didn’t because no one bothered to tell me my options.

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

A few years ago I was saving money for something and just putting it in my savings account. I got a call from a CIBC rep and they said "We noticed you have a large amount of money in your account and were wondering what you planned to do with it?"

That kind of caught me off guard and I'm not sure why but it made me mad. Like I know they need access to that but still felt like an invasion.

I told them it was non of their business and not to call me for stuff like that again.

samething happen with my bank, as i had sold off my stock holdings and just sitting on cash, they would like to offer some investement products.

[pdog15]

@midget. Yes, her just being there does not/should not imply consent. If it was important to him, all the teller had to do was ask her for her consent but he chose not to do this - not once but twice. This certainly would have/should have sufficed as express consent. While privacy legislation may or may not be applicable here rather than the bank’s interpretation of privacy legislation, the lack of common sense surely is. While you say their is “good reason” on behalf of the teller for doing as he did - I will challenge that and it is yet to be determined in conversation with the branch manager eventually.

@Dean. The point that seems yet to be determined is: What does a bank accept today as being express consent to share bank information with a spouse or significant other. Will a signed, notarized written/typed document signed by the holder of an account work?


In a different bank with my wife present, the teller started parroting in a soft voice - power of attorney, power of attorney. My response was just as soft - you know what, you are trying to start something here that is totally uncalled for. The message must have gone through as she made a mistake with my transaction that took weeks to straighten out. Have not been back to that branch since.

As far as I can see, the bank is forcing us to have everything in joint or to have a power of attorney. Apparently the banks can have their own POA but it seems that by signing one of these, it probably negates any other POA that you may have. There are problems to having everything in joint as well. Are the banks likely to tell you about both the pros and the cons - I think it will be much more about what benefits them.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by pdog15

@midget. Yes, her just being there does not/should not imply consent. If it was important to him, all the teller had to do was ask her for her consent but he chose not to do this - not once but twice. This certainly would have/should have sufficed as express consent. While privacy legislation may or may not be applicable here rather than the bank’s interpretation of privacy legislation, the lack of common sense surely is. While you say their is “good reason” on behalf of the teller for doing as he did - I will challenge that and it is yet to be determined in conversation with the branch manager eventually.

Ok well why didn’t you direct the teller to ask your wife for consent? It sounds like the guy was being a putz but it’s not like you didn’t have recourse is it.

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Sounds to me like the teller did the right thing but handled it badly. Privacy legislation makes no automatic provision for your spouse, you have the same right to information about an account in her name as a complete stranger. I’ve had the same run around trying to manage my wife’s wireless plan and such. I know it seems absurd with her standing right there but the way the regulations are written, there’s not much room for judgement calls.

It’s annoying but there’s good reasons behind it.

sounded to me as if she was standing right there

if so my understanding is he is to turn to the wife and say

can’t talk to your husband unless you give me the ok under the federal banking privacy rules. is it ok to answer his question?

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Cement Bench

sounded to me as if she was standing right there

if so my understanding is he is to turn to the wife and say

can’t talk to your husband unless you give me the ok under the federal banking privacy rules. is it ok to answer his question?

Yes exactly. It’s strange, awkward and usually pointless but that’s the way it works.

There are cases where it matters. Imagine if you have someone in an abusive relationship and they are hiding money to leave, that privacy is important. Yes it seems unlikely that a person in that specific situation from the original post is going to say no but that policy would protect phone access or the like. That’s why it’s there and why it’s a blanket protection.

[EZM]

The privacy law thing I've experienced with the bank, in this case my wife was not permitted to address an issue where our credit card was under my name, which was an inconvenience to her and she did feel slighted. It was an oversight on my part when I signed up for the card some 20 years ago ....

Same thing in reverse happened to me, on our Shaw account, it's in her name and they won't talk to me about service changes.

Most institutions and businesses don't want the exposure I guess.

As far as banks being intrusive, I get calls, solicitation all the time, as I have very little investments in my personal bank, 95% of it is elsewhere - yet they do occasionally see some money moving in/out from my brokerage accounts and other institutions I deal with - they are, after all, in business to make money and they want a piece of the action.

I am not cutting them out of the action on purpose, or for any other reason, it's just that at a former job the company set us up with a brokerage firm, for our stock options, and they have been very good to me and given me excellent advice, support and seem to actually pay attention to me and my interests .... and this feels good knowing that I'm not Joe big roller and they still service my account.

I'm not sure I'd get the same attention from my main bank, and I am not compelled to switch for any reason.

[jstubbs]

Couple years back my brother got a job as a “Financial Advisor” at one of the big Canadian banks. It was basically nothing more than a fairly high pressure sales job to get people into credit cards and other savings accounts and stuff they didn’t need. A lot of “emphasis” was placed on trying to get new Canadians signed up into this stuff.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Couple years back my brother got a job as a “Financial Advisor” at one of the big Canadian banks. It was basically nothing more than a fairly high pressure sales job to get people into credit cards and other savings accounts and stuff they didn’t need. A lot of “emphasis” was placed on trying to get new Canadians signed up into this stuff.

My experiences have been the flipside of this. The 'new Canadian ' behind the counter is telling me I need to talk to someone in financial because she sees my bank balance. Sorry, but I remember her working at macdonalds last year, that annoys the hell out of me.

[B-radshaw]

I worked in banking for a few years. Couldn't handle the politics and micro management. Front line staff are trained to try and up sell. Usually the Bank system will will generate and auto pop up when they open your file showing what your pre approved for or if you should be meeting with a financial advisor based one whats in your account. Advisors are nothing but salesman trained to offer you one of the bank profit earning tools to park your money in. My 12 year old daughter could work as a financial advisor at a bank.

[pdog15]

@B-Rad. This pretty much confirms what I’m seeing from the outside in terms of who is a bank “financial advisor” and what they are likely to offer. No such thing as walk in and talk to one these days - must be by appointment. Given a card with a name on it, usually no designations behind the name, not given any idea about who this person is or what expertise they might have. The feeling that you know going in that you are very likely to be dealing with a salesperson, not a financial adviser, is ever present and is totally comfortable.

[Dean2]

The vast majority of the folks working in Bank branches with the title "Financial Advisor" are not well trained or well qualified. If they are selling you mutual funds they need the Canadian Securities Course and that is good basic training but in no way makes them into experts. If they don't sell mutual funds, they don't even need that much training. In many Banks a lot of the "Advisors" are actually just loans officers with a different name.

Relying on most of the branch located advisors, that work directly for the Bank rather than its investment arm like Wood Gundy, RBC Dominion Securities, Investor Direct etc or the teller for financial advise is a REALLY bad idea. The advisors that work for the investment arm of the bank are far better qualified and trained but you will still have to go through them carefully to make sure you get a good one.

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

You do realize they are trying to make you more interest on your savings, right?
A lot of people don’t realize that there are simple things they can do to get a better interest rate.
I’d be more upset if I found out that I could have made a much better return on my money but didn’t because no one bothered to tell me my options.

Well, Yes and no. They are trying to make more money on my money by offering a small amount in exchange for locking it in.
I honestly put no value in interest these days. Any spare money is invested ,obviously keeping cash in savings for what is needed.

If they had called and asked if I wanted to know about one of their products I would have taken it differently than the way it was worded. I took it more as a sales person was going through accounts looking for ones that they could pull a fat commission on.

[BUSHRVN]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

Well, Yes and no. They are trying to make more money on my money by offering a small amount in exchange for locking it in.
I honestly put no value in interest these days. Any spare money is invested ,obviously keeping cash in savings for what is needed.

If they had called and asked if I wanted to know about one of their products I would have taken it differently than the way it was worded. I took it more as a sales person was going through accounts looking for ones that they could pull a fat commission on.

This is my take on it 100%, both for the staff member and the bank benefit first and foremost.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

Well, Yes and no. They are trying to make more money on my money by offering a small amount in exchange for locking it in.
I honestly put no value in interest these days. Any spare money is invested ,obviously keeping cash in savings for what is needed.

If they had called and asked if I wanted to know about one of their products I would have taken it differently than the way it was worded. I took it more as a sales person was going through accounts looking for ones that they could pull a fat commission on.

exactly right. Commission is paid for accounts that get locked in. I do not disagree with that, I just do not want that.

If I had a million dollars I was not using, you bet I would be investing in some way but right now the little money I have is working very well to make me more. When I want it I take it, and generally without too much hassle.

I have found that when the little filipino asks 'what are you buying Mr Ken?' I just say guns, to which I get a shocked look and then a little chat from a manager. 'really Ken, $30,000 worth of guns? I just smiled.

Apparently guns is a four letter word that is offensive to TFW's and "new canadians" (puke) and I should be ashamed.

I do find that when I say 'guns' they tend to not ask the next time I go in. I am getting them trained slowly.

(the manager just shakes her head and smiles now LOL)

[ThePokGuy]

TD waterhouse themselves is pretty good. Easy to reach if you contact them through the number on your Easyweb to skip some of the wait lines.
Before I would get TD sales calls from independent contractor, but haven't been getting any of those recently.

[EZM]

Some of this reminds me of my Godfather, who for whatever reason, got peaved with his bank, went down there and asked to withdraw all his money and wanted it in cash.

The manager tried talking to him, trying to find out why he needed it, what he was doing with it, etc.. and he just told them none of their business but just kept on getting hounded for 30 minutes until he got even more ticked off.

I'm not exactly sure, but I'm guessing this was likely a few hundred thousand dollars (his life savings) and apparently they could not (or would not) give him the cash, so he called the police and made a big ruckus.

Long story short, apparently the solution was either a cashiers check of some sort (where they tried to charge him a fee for it) which he refused to pay, or they had to "order" the cash and he would have to come back ..........

Just a circus.

I can just picture the crazy train wreck this must have been when the police showed up and my Godfather pointed to the bank manager and ordered him to arrest the crook (pointing at the bank manager) ...

lol. God rest his soul, he was pure entertainment, and dealing with a bank would have certainly triggered the poor ol' guy.

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by EZM

Some of this reminds me of my Godfather, who for whatever reason, got peaved with his bank, went down there and asked to withdraw all his money and wanted it in cash.

The manager tried talking to him, trying to find out why he needed it, what he was doing with it, etc.. and he just told them none of their business but just kept on getting hounded for 30 minutes until he got even more ticked off.

I'm not exactly sure, but I'm guessing this was likely a few hundred thousand dollars (his life savings) and apparently they could not (or would not) give him the cash, so he called the police and made a big ruckus.

Long story short, apparently the solution was either a cashiers check of some sort (where they tried to charge him a fee for it) which he refused to pay, or they had to "order" the cash and he would have to come back ..........

Just a circus.

I can just picture the crazy train wreck this must have been when the police showed up and my Godfather pointed to the bank manager and ordered him to arrest the crook (pointing at the bank manager) ...

lol. God rest his soul, he was pure entertainment, and dealing with a bank would have certainly triggered the poor ol' guy.

With the scam, especially on seniors now it’s better to be safe then sorry especially if it a big withdraw, bank manager are probably more reasonable if given a good reason .

[daveyn]

Originally Posted by fishtank

With the scam, especially on seniors now it’s better to be safe then sorry especially if it a big withdraw, bank manager are probably more reasonable if given a good reason .

You are correct, more and more we are seeing cases of seniors being caught up in romance scams sending gobs of money to some scammer and then the family coming back to the bank claiming "you should have recognized this, asked more questions and stopped it". Banks can't win that argument and are often required to compensate the victim even though all they did was exactly what they were asked to do.
All front line staff are now being trained to ask questions of seniors withdrawing large amounts of cash or making wire transfers.
It might seem intrusive but there are really good reason.

[Buckhead]

Seriously, banks are getting worse and worse with their invasions of privacy.
I have had Scotiabank call and demand that I give them my passport # and the transit numbers and account numbers of any other financial institutions I deal at.
And this was not a scam call, this was someone I have known for a more than a decade in their Toronto office.

I clearly stated that if they persisted I would be calling the Banking Ombudsman next and then work my way up from there. Never heard anything after that.

And yes, that particular person is still there.

[SHEDHEAD]

Last month I sold a few things for my business and deposited the money into my RBC bank account. Decided to do a money order on some of the funds to transfer to my personal account at Scotia Bank. Sheesh youd think I was a hard convicted drug dealer trying to deposit dirty money at scotiabank. Drilled to the till on where these funds came from and asked to provide a paper trail from the original business deal. Told them to pound sand ill open a personal account at RBC if its going to be like this.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Buckhead

Seriously, banks are getting worse and worse with their invasions of privacy.
I have had Scotiabank call and demand that I give them my passport # and the transit numbers and account numbers of any other financial institutions I deal at.
And this was not a scam call, this was someone I have known for a more than a decade in their Toronto office.

I clearly stated that if they persisted I would be calling the Banking Ombudsman next and then work my way up from there. Never heard anything after that.

And yes, that particular person is still there.

Originally Posted by SHEDHEAD

Last month I sold a few things for my business and deposited the money into my RBC bank account. Decided to do a money order on some of the funds to transfer to my personal account at Scotia Bank. Sheesh youd think I was a hard convicted drug dealer trying to deposit dirty money at scotiabank. Drilled to the till on where these funds came from and asked to provide a paper trail from the original business deal. Told them to pound sand ill open a personal account at RBC if its going to be like this.

Oh there would be fireworks for both of these.
Instant cancellation of all personal and business accounts and complaints filed.

[CMichaud]

About 10 years ago I closed my account with RBC. They had made me unhappy and I wanted to consolidate my accounts at any rate as I had three banks on the go.

I refused to pay for a bank draft so came back 2 days later to receive my brick of cash - about 60k.

I walked across the street and deposited it into my other bank into a joint account with my wife. The teller was somewhat taken aback with the size of the cash deposit but all went well.

About a week later my wife got a call from the bank demanding an update to her personal info. She was cautious handing out info on the phone. This quickly escalated with the bank telling her they would freeze her assets if she did not provide additional info.

I called the bank and had it out with them. I said they had no business threatening to do this and that these funds were also my funds. They basically told me about Fintrac and deposits greater than 10k etc. Comply or they lock it down.

My biggest problem is that they could have asked for the withdrawal receipt from the bank across the street (time stamped about 10 minutes earlier) if they needed proof of source at the time of deposit. In the end we were forced to comply with their additional demands for pers info.