High Fence Bucks...

[tatonka2]

With the proliferation of bucks being killed behind high fences I wonder what B&C will do in the years to come. As it is now, "Pick Up" racks can be entered (like the Hole in the Horn Buck and the current NT WR from Missouri). This two bucks were obviously free range bucks, but what happens 30 years from now when racks from bucks killed on preserves are suddenly presented as a pickup? It could be done very innocently... Example: A guy shoots a monster buck on a preserve and comes home and tells his family and friends it was a free range buck... I know, this never happens...ya, right. Anyway, jump ahead 30 or 40 years and the guy's grandson finds the rack after grandpa kicks the bucket and decides it should be entered in the B&C book. How will B&C handle things like this? My guess is that at some point in time "Pick Ups" will no longer be eligible...

I'm amazed at how many deer farms/high fence operations there are these days. I did a hunt in Saskatchewan this fall (free range...came home empty handed), but the outfit also has a high fence operation.. They had 75 people in this fall and all went home with huge bucks...some went home with two!. That's just one outfit. These things are popping up all over the U.S. and Canada. The owner of the outfit I hunted with said he had a company fly in 5 guys and all shot two bucks and the owner of the company paid for everything!

[cowmanbob]

B&C will do only what increases revenue.

[Pathfinder76]

Who cares? I mean really. It’s a made up club.

[tatonka2]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

B&C will do only what increases revenue.

True....I never did understand why someone should pay to have a critter entered...Never have entered one...never will. It's kind of like winning the World Series and having to pay for the trophy.

I was just thinking out loud about how they might handle these High Fence buck situations. The Whitetail World has gone mad......

[58thecat]

Yup, who cares? Really, it's a outfit that you either like or dislike....me....I know big...don't need my name in a book but some like the limelight etc

Imagine measuring nothing and getting a score......

[Bushrat]

Boone & Crockett means very little anymore, it has lost it's credibility and purpose when the world went wild with trophy hunting just to get their name in the book. It's been compromised with hundreds probably thousands of farmed or illegally taken and poached animals that have been entered over the decades.

[boah]

Originally Posted by chuck

Who cares? I mean really. It’s a made up club.

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Yup, who cares? Really, it's a outfit that you either like or dislike....me....I know big...don't need my name in a book but some like the limelight etc

Imagine measuring nothing and getting a score......

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Boone & Crockett means very little anymore, it has lost it's credibility and purpose when the world went wild with trophy hunting just to get their name in the book. It's been compromised with hundreds probably thousands of farmed or illegally taken and poached animals that have been entered over the decades.

I agree with all. It is also too bad that their scoring system is the one that everyone uses when discussing deer size. You get credit for the amount of air between the antlers???? But you don’t get credit for an extra point on a side. Hmmmmm

[Bellero]

It already happened, Larry Smith from the King Of the Woods hunting show was caught transporting trophy WT deer between US states and also Ontario back in 2011 to enter his name in several record books.

People were wondering was his secret was to be the most consistently successful hunter in Ontario lol.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Bellero

It already happened, Larry Smith from the King Of the Woods hunting show was caught transporting trophy WT deer between US states and also Ontario back in 2011 to enter his name in several record books.

People were wondering was his secret was to be the most consistently successful hunter in Ontario lol.

Lots before him andvthere will be more after .
Egomaniac lowlifes is all they are .....
Cat

[last minute]

Originally Posted by chuck

Who cares? I mean really. It’s a made up club.

x2 i have to agree .

[catnthehat]

None of the various big game scoring societies really enter my mind except in conversations like this .
Cat

[packhuntr]

Alot of ignorance on this forum.
Guys rather than spread more of it here, go look at the B&C website. THEY ARE SOME OF THE GOOD GUYS.
Look and read under the headings,
-Conservation
-Education
-Hunting Ethics
Try to UNDERSTAND that for our hunting heritage to not only exist as you have come to know it right now (and utilize), there has been much work done by many people and groups NON GOVT. DRIVEN/RELATED that have LAID THIS FOUNDATION.
AND,,,
You had best open your closed AO minds just a wee bit beyond your self righteous "local hunter attitudes" if you desire to see ANY continuation of our culture and heritage.
This thing is WAY BIGGER than some of you guys apparently realize, and "CONSERVATION WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT" is FORCEFULLY driven by MANY differing, yet crucially co-operative initiatives.
Even support for AO magazine by picking one off the shelf is a good thing. It helps support a massive "web" of industries and groups. Think about it...
Or drop everything including simply equipment and ammunition purchases for ex. basically EVERYTHING, and halt all support of these people and programs, AND KEEP TEARING DOWN YOUR PEERS, but do so at your own peril. You can STAY IGNORANT TO THE FACT THAT IT IS ALL DRIVEN BY MONEY, and reserve "thanks" for YOURSELVES should anything "bad" transpire due a lack of INDUSTRY SUPPORT...

[last minute]

Ie: Dont support these people and programs, AND KEEP TEARING DOWN YOUR PEERS, but do so at your own peril

OK Thanks

[catnthehat]

I believe the B&C has always been against “ canned “ hunts but it all goes out the window when one’s moral compass gets skewed , and that goes for anything in life as far as personal ethics and rules go......
Cat

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Alot of ignorance on this forum.
Guys rather than spread more of it here, go look at the B&C website. THEY ARE SOME OF THE GOOD GUYS.
Look and read under the headings,
-Conservation
-Education
-Hunting Ethics
Try to UNDERSTAND that for our hunting heritage to not only exist as you have come to know it right now (and utilize), there has been much work done by many people and groups NON GOVT. DRIVEN/RELATED that have LAID THIS FOUNDATION.
AND,,,
You had best open your closed AO minds just a wee bit beyond your self righteous "local hunter attitudes" if you desire to see ANY continuation of our culture and heritage.
This thing is WAY BIGGER than some of you guys apparently realize, and "CONSERVATION WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT" is FORCEFULLY driven by MANY differing, yet crucially co-operative initiatives.
Even support for AO magazine by picking one off the shelf is a good thing. It helps support a massive "web" of industries and groups. Think about it...
Or drop everything including simply equipment and ammunition purchases for ex. basically EVERYTHING, and halt all support of these people and programs, AND KEEP TEARING DOWN YOUR PEERS, but do so at your own peril. You can STAY IGNORANT TO THE FACT THAT IT IS ALL DRIVEN BY MONEY, and reserve "thanks" for YOURSELVES should anything "bad" transpire due a lack of INDUSTRY SUPPORT...

not sure if you realise it, but you may have an issue with a sticky cap lock button

[packhuntr]

Yea,,, caps is stuck on... another thumbs up for Joe, from me...
This is akin to opposing a critical road construction project and all reliant industries and services, because some idiot steps up and says there could be a speeder in the future.
How could something as such GAIN traction? Thats what we are seeing here...

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I believe the B&C has always been against “ canned “ hunts but it all goes out the window when one’s moral compass gets skewed , and that goes for anything in life as far as personal ethics and rules go......
Cat

it's come a long ways since the aims of it's founders.

Grizz

[Big Grey Wolf]

Generally with statistics you can determine that 100 year old B & C records are being skewed by farmed deer or elk. Also locations that never produced records starting to show large numbers will show something is wrong.

[tatonka2]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Boone & Crockett means very little anymore, it has lost it's credibility and purpose when the world went wild with trophy hunting just to get their name in the book. It's been compromised with hundreds probably thousands of farmed or illegally taken and poached animals that have been entered over the decades.

It's more like tens of thousands slaughtered on preserves over the past several years. They grow them up like a prize steer. There are more and more of these high fence operations starting up every year and "Hunters" are clamoring to them.... Ditto for preserves offering elk.

[Bushrat]

I think the record book should recognize the animal taken in fair chase, but remove hunters names from the book. B&C has and does great work for the hunting tradition, on the other hand the very nature of records and score keeping inevitably drives and has created a culture of deception, cheating poaching, etc by individuals who by any nefarious means will go to any length to get their name in the book to further either their ego or their commercial agendas or both. Unfortunately B&C's drive to further legitimize the hunting tradition and conservation agendas through records keeping unfortunately also discredits and stains it's reputation. Personally I think B&C should drop the record book, stop focusing on trophy animals and the glory seeking hunters who kill them and instead have a book recognizing those individuals and groups who really are the drivers of conservation and hunting tradition as opposed to a list of those who happen to be lucky enough or crooked enough to shoot a trophy animal. Stop the score keeping, it is turning our sport into a competition not a tradition.

[walking buffalo]

And yet another AO thread where the flow leads to Hunters eating their own.
This is so pathetic.... I am becoming convinced that AO is becoming a detriment to the future of hunting.

B&C is THE organization that has done more for maintaining and advancing the conservation and hunting of WILDLIFE than any other.

The record book has provided invaluable data for wildlife managers to validate and defend hunting.


B&C has extensive position statements regarding game farms, genetic manipulation, canned hunting... and on... all of which are absolute causes for refusing admission to the record book.


As to the future... B&C is aware and shares the OP's concern. A continuing project to collect dna samples from WILDLIFE throughout their ranges is opening the possibility to test for canned animals.



The B&C Book is worth more than just the egos it feeds.
Before pulling out the pitchfork, breathe and think about what you are promoting.

[tatonka2]

I don't think the problem is with B&C or record books in general. They provide a lot of useful information and do their best to promote ethical hunting. I personally believe the problem is peoples' egos that is fostered by the media (Hunting shows on tv, magazines, etc.). The media has made it look like anyone who doesn't shoot a whopper bull or buck is a poor hunter....they don't come right out and say it, but I think a lot of hunters think that. Years ago (talking 50 years ago before hunting shows on tv, etc.) you rarely saw a buck's score in a magazine article...they might say it was a 5X5 or what it weighed, but the stories were always about the hunt itself as opposed to the size of the critter shot...

In regards to B&C, I just read their stance on hunting preserves, genetically engineered bucks and bulls, and all of that. B&C is against most all of that, but if I read it correctly they are not against a high fence providing the bucks aren't being bred in captivity and then released, given special supplements to grow large antlers, etc.. I'll go back and reread it, but I believe that is their stance, oddly enough.

At any rate, these high fence operations where bucks are bred in captivity and then released to be shot needs to be stopped, but being free countries (the US and Canada) I guess it's "to each their own"....just gives real hunters a black eye in my book.

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

And yet another AO thread where the flow leads to Hunters eating their own.
This is so pathetic.... I am becoming convinced that AO is becoming a detriment to the future of hunting.

B&C is THE organization that has done more for maintaining and advancing the conservation and hunting of WILDLIFE than any other.

The record book has provided invaluable data for wildlife managers to validate and defend hunting.


B&C has extensive position statements regarding game farms, genetic manipulation, canned hunting... and on... all of which are absolute causes for refusing admission to the record book.


As to the future... B&C is aware and shares the OP's concern. A continuing project to collect dna samples from WILDLIFE throughout their ranges is opening the possibility to test for canned animals.



The B&C Book is worth more than just the egos it feeds.
Before pulling out the pitchfork, breathe and think about what you are promoting.

Great post. I think you nailed it. Some so called hunters these days have no clue at all. It’s all instagram and Facebook and such. I wouldn’t read too much into some of these comments on here. I still feel there is a lot of people that hunt that get it.

[501s]

As a new hunter (this was my 3rd season) there is definitely some people with a “look down your nose” attitude towards people who don’t shoot big deer. Of course not everyone on here is like that, but how many times have you seen someone post a pic of a nice buck only to have someone else say “he will be a nice deer in a year or two”. He IS a nice deer, not everyone measures their worth as a man by the size of the antlers on the deer they shoot.

I took a new friend hunting this year for the first time and I have to say it was incredibly refreshing to go hunting with someone who wasn’t solely focused on antlers. He shot his first deer, a doe, and I was so happy to see how hard he worked for it and how much pride he had.

[catnthehat]

My issue isn’t with the B&C but with those that cheat their way into the books for their own advancement and glory .
Cat

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

My issue isn’t with the B&C but with those that cheat their way into the books for their own advancement and glory .
Cat

Where there are people there will always be problems.