10/22 magazines

[Kellykrahn]

Is there any new developments on the whole 25 rounders debacle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[58thecat]

Nope, still the same idiotic law applies...can't use 'em.
Unless in a gopher full on frontal assault to storm and take the mound!

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Nope, still the same idiotic law applies...can't use 'em.

Jury still out on that one.
RCMP's mandate is to enforce existing laws and regs,not create them.

[Scottmisfits]

They are currently on the prohibited list. This will just turn into another big debate. If caught using one the RCMP will charge you. This topic has been beaten to death on here already. Use one and take your chances of losing all your firearms, a lot of money fighting it in court, and losing a few hairs in the process. the other option is to not use them, support the people fighting this, and hopefully be able to use them again.

[Alephnaught]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Nope, still the same idiotic law applies...can't use 'em.

Nah, you can still use them. According to the RCMP's opinion though, they need to be pinned to 10 rounds.

This is a matter waiting for a test case to challenge the underlying issue.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

They are currently on the prohibited list. This will just turn into another big debate. If caught using one the RCMP will charge you. This topic has been beaten to death on here already. Use one and take your chances of losing all your firearms, a lot of money fighting it in court, and losing a few hairs in the process. the other option is to not use them, support the people fighting this, and hopefully be able to use them again.

The information that I've seen is anybody caught using them will be issued a warning and grace period to comply with pinning....in other words,NO...RCMP have been directed to NOT charge people,likely because they know damn well that it is a bogus charge and they will lose in court,thus setting the precedent that it is in fact rightfully NOT a prohibited device,just more attempted bullying of law abiding gun owners from the jackbooted thugs in Ottawa.

[Scottmisfits]

I'd love to see this printed information with RCMP letter head and a signature of someone high up in the RCMP. I sent a letter to my MLA about it and I got back a letter saying they are prohibited and will be treated as such.

[Alephnaught]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

I'd love to see this printed information with RCMP letter head and a signature of someone high up in the RCMP. I sent a letter to my MLA about it and I got back a letter saying they are prohibited and will be treated as such.

MLA? Firearms are a federal matter, should you not have sent this to you MP?

I emailed and met with my MP in this, as well as sending letters to Ralph Goodale (Minister of Public Safety), Bob Paulson (RCMP Commissioner) and the PMO. I also joined the CCFR as a result of this matter.

[Scottmisfits]

Sorry, yes. MP

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by West O'5

Jury still out on that one.
RCMP's mandate is to enforce existing laws and regs,not create them.

RCMP did not create any laws. It is an interpretation of an existing law where magazines designed for or which can be used in a semi automatic handgun are restricted to 10 rounds.

I would recommend not being caught with a 25 round magazine in your 10/22.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

RCMP did not create any laws. It is an interpretation of an existing law where magazines designed for or which can be used in a semi automatic handgun are restricted to 10 rounds.

I would recommend not being caught with a 25 round magazine in your 10/22.

This latest interpretation also directly contradicts RCMP's very own Bulletin 72 which states that the legality of a magazine is determined by the firearm for which it was ORIGINALLY DESIGNED.....the very same "loophole" that allows the use of 10rd pistol mags and 14rd Beowulf.50 mags in semiauto rifles and 10rd .40S&W mags that also happen to fit and feed 13rds of 9mm.
These 25rd Ruger mags were ORIGINALLY DESIGNED and legally bought and sold to CDNS for decades before the obscure Charger pistol was even thought of.

And NO...it is ABSOLUTELY NOT " an interpretation of an existing law where magazines designed for or which can be used in a semi automatic handgun are restricted to 10 rounds"

It says absolutely nothing about "or which can be used in" a semiauto handgun,unless the magazine was explicitly marketed for dual use in both rifles and handguns as is the case with BX-25 mags specifically,as they are in fact designed and marketed for use in both 10-22 rifles and Charger pistol.
Still,it's all just BS semantics and wording,however....Hot Lips mags and GSG drum mags predate the Charger pistol by many years and decades,therefore it is irrelevant if they also happen to fit and function in some new stupid club of a pistol that nobody wants to buy anyway....there's something like 400 butt ugly cumbersome Charger "pistols" (really just an ugly pistol gripped SBRs)registered in Canada vs. what....a cpl hundred thousand 10/22 rifles at least and over a million 10/22 mags sold for same in Canada??

If you are going to pretend to quote regs,at least quote them accurately and don't insert your own words,lest one might suspect you are an RCMP troll promoting your agenda with blatantly false information.

[58thecat]

22 Long Rifle calibre magazines designed or manufactured for 10/22 platform rifles are also inherently designed or manufactured for 10/22 platform handguns. Because 22 Long Rifle calibre 10/22 platform magazines are designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun, they are prohibited devices if they are capable of containing more than 10 cartridges. The 10 cartridge limit for the 10/22 platform applies irrespective of the type of firearm it is used in.

Sad but here it is.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by West O'5

This latest interpretation also directly contradicts RCMP's very own Bulletin 72 which states that the legality of a magazine is determined by the firearm for which it was ORIGINALLY DESIGNED.....the very same "loophole" that allows the use of 10rd pistol mags and 14rd Beowulf.50 mags in semiauto rifles and 10rd .40S&W mags that also happen to fit and feed 13rds of 9mm.
These 25rd Ruger mags were ORIGINALLY DESIGNED and legally bought and sold to CDNS for decades before the obscure Charger pistol was even thought of.

And NO...it is ABSOLUTELY NOT " an interpretation of an existing law where magazines designed for or which can be used in a semi automatic handgun are restricted to 10 rounds"

It says absolutely nothing about "or which can be used in" a semiauto handgun,unless the magazine was explicitly marketed for dual use in both rifles and handguns as is the case with BX-25 mags specifically,as they are in fact designed and marketed for use in both 10-22 rifles and Charger pistol.
Still,it's all just BS semantics and wording,however....Hot Lips mags and GSG drum mags predate the Charger pistol by many years and decades,therefore it is irrelevant if they also happen to fit and function in some new stupid club of a pistol that nobody wants to buy anyway....there's something like 400 butt ugly cumbersome Charger "pistols" (really just an ugly pistol gripped SBRs)registered in Canada vs. what....a cpl hundred thousand 10/22 rifles at least and over a million 10/22 mags sold for same in Canada??

If you are going to pretend to quote regs,at least quote them accurately and don't insert your own words,lest one might suspect you are an RCMP troll promoting your agenda with blatantly false information.

Maybe you should try quoting it correctly.....

PART 4
Prohibited Devices

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 9

1 Any electrical or mechanical device that is designed or adapted to operate the trigger mechanism of a semi-automatic firearm for the purpose of causing the firearm to discharge cartridges in rapid succession.

2 Any rifle, shotgun or carbine stock of the type known as the “bull-pup” design, being a stock that, when combined with a firearm, reduces the overall length of the firearm such that a substantial part of the reloading action or the magazine-well is located behind the trigger of the firearm when it is held in the normal firing position.

Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations

3 (1) Any cartridge magazine

(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in

(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,

(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,

(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,

(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,

(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or

(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or

(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.


As you see the "originally designed" refers to the cartridge type, which in this case is 22 LR. The next part requires that the magazine be designed or manufactured for use in a semi automatic handgun.

Butler Creek 25 round magazine.

1. Originally designed for 22 LR? Yes

and

2. Designed OR manufactured for use in a semi automatic handgun? Yes

So it doesn't matter that it wasn't originally designed for the Ruger 10/22 rifle as that does not need to be met to satisfy the definition.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by West O'5

This latest interpretation also directly contradicts RCMP's very own Bulletin 72 which states that the legality of a magazine is determined by the firearm for which it was ORIGINALLY DESIGNED.....the very same "loophole" that allows the use of 10rd pistol mags and 14rd Beowulf.50 mags in semiauto rifles and 10rd .40S&W mags that also happen to fit and feed 13rds of 9mm.
These 25rd Ruger mags were ORIGINALLY DESIGNED and legally bought and sold to CDNS for decades before the obscure Charger pistol was even thought of.

And NO...it is ABSOLUTELY NOT " an interpretation of an existing law where magazines designed for or which can be used in a semi automatic handgun are restricted to 10 rounds"

It says absolutely nothing about "or which can be used in" a semiauto handgun,unless the magazine was explicitly marketed for dual use in both rifles and handguns as is the case with BX-25 mags specifically,as they are in fact designed and marketed for use in both 10-22 rifles and Charger pistol.
Still,it's all just BS semantics and wording,however....Hot Lips mags and GSG drum mags predate the Charger pistol by many years and decades,therefore it is irrelevant if they also happen to fit and function in some new stupid club of a pistol that nobody wants to buy anyway....there's something like 400 butt ugly cumbersome Charger "pistols" (really just an ugly pistol gripped SBRs)registered in Canada vs. what....a cpl hundred thousand 10/22 rifles at least and over a million 10/22 mags sold for same in Canada??

If you are going to pretend to quote regs,at least quote them accurately and don't insert your own words,lest one might suspect you are an RCMP troll promoting your agenda with blatantly false information.

There are s lot of your own words inserted in your own post about your opinion of that hand gun .
Maybe practise what you preach
Cat

[colroggal]

There are 600,000 legally registered handguns in Canada(probably more because the data I have is from 2013). If less than 500 of these charger pistols are among us that is less than 0.0001% of legal handguns. Quite growing risk. Well worth the time spent 'interpreting' gun laws.

I'm sure the number of immigrants and refugees posing a security risk is higher - but that's okay.

Colin

[denied access]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Maybe you should try quoting it correctly.....

PART 4
Prohibited Devices

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 9

1 Any electrical or mechanical device that is designed or adapted to operate the trigger mechanism of a semi-automatic firearm for the purpose of causing the firearm to discharge cartridges in rapid succession.

2 Any rifle, shotgun or carbine stock of the type known as the “bull-pup” design, being a stock that, when combined with a firearm, reduces the overall length of the firearm such that a substantial part of the reloading action or the magazine-well is located behind the trigger of the firearm when it is held in the normal firing position.

Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations

3 (1) Any cartridge magazine

(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in

(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,

(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,

(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,

(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,

(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or

(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or

(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.


As you see the "originally designed" refers to the cartridge type, which in this case is 22 LR. The next part requires that the magazine be designed or manufactured for use in a semi automatic handgun.

Butler Creek 25 round magazine.

1. Originally designed for 22 LR? Yes

and

2. Designed OR manufactured for use in a semi automatic handgun? YesNot Quite. Many of the mags in Canada predatre the Charger. The patents on hot lips and steel lips mags predate the charger therefore the mags were not manufactured for use in a semi auto handgun

So it doesn't matter that it wasn't originally designed for the Ruger 10/22 rifle as that does not need to be met to satisfy the definition.

.

[brendan's dad]

I am just pointing out the legal interpretation that will be argued at the court challenge.

Another way to look at the 2nd part of the definition is that the "design" of those magazines will function in a handgun. So as soon as the charger became available in Canada, any magazine over 10 rounds that function in the charger is prohibited regardless of your intentions to use it in a rifle or what it was originally manufacturer or purchased for.

Normally the "pistol mag" rule is to the benefit of the shooter, since there is no law preventing the use of pistol mags in a rifle. This is the first time it is detrimental to the shooter since the firearm/mag in question is rimfire.

But remember, the regulation is being applied exactly the same to the 10/22 magazines as it is applied to all other pistol mags that their design allows usage in a rifle. After this court case, the power that be may look at the usage of pistol mags in a rifle as a loop hole that needs to be closed.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by colroggal

There are 600,000 legally registered handguns in Canada(probably more because the data I have is from 2013). If less than 500 of these charger pistols are among us that is less than 0.0001% of legal handguns. Quite growing risk. Well worth the time spent 'interpreting' gun laws.

I'm sure the number of immigrants and refugees posing a security risk is higher - but that's okay.

Colin

I don't think that is even a consideration. The task of weighing public safety and risk was completed when the laws and regulations were written.

Now the task is to determine which law and regulation applies to each item. It is not the Labs job to weigh risk or make exceptions to rules in the interest of public safety. If they did that then every decision would be challenged in court and 1 side of the fence would always be unhappy.

Take the Type 81 that was classified 2 years ago. Everyone including the CSSA was sure that it would be classified as prohibited due to it's lineage to the AK47. After the Labs exam it was determine that there was not enough lineage to say it was an AK47 variant, so given the laws and regulations in place it was classified as non-restricted.

The Lab it not going to jam a square peg in a round hole because they know they will lose in court.

[denied access]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

I am just pointing out the legal interpretation that will be argued at the court challenge.

Another way to look at the 2nd part of the definition is that the "design" of those magazines will function in a handgun. So as soon as the charger became available in Canada, any magazine over 10 rounds that function in the charger is prohibited regardless of your intentions to use it in a rifle or what it was originally manufacturer or purchased for.

Normally the "pistol mag" rule is to the benefit of the shooter, since there is no law preventing the use of pistol mags in a rifle. This is the first time it is detrimental to the shooter since the firearm/mag in question is rimfire.

(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.

That is what the regulation says. They (RCMP) can interpret it any way they want but the wording indicates that at minimum all pre charger mags are fine. As stated before Hot Lips and Steel Lips patented before the charger was invented. Never labelled, marketed or sold (as in the BX 25) for the charger. So how are mags bought 20 years before the charger was first built "designed or manufactured for use" in the charger? This is why the horsemen are reluctant to charge anyone with this and why when they do charge someone charges are dropped before court. Same as the beowulf mags. That being said I would not volunteer to be the guinea pig IF I owned a couple of these mags.

And you have your pistol mag rule idea reversed. By the logic of the 10/22 interpretation all pistol mags that fit in a center fire semi auto rifle would need to be pinned at 5 rounds.

I also cannot fail to point out that while quoting the regs you have left out the most important part

"3 (1) Any cartridge magazine

(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in

(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,

(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,

(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,

(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,

(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or

(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or

(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.

(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is chambered for, or designed to use, rimfire cartridges,"

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by denied access

(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.

That is what the regulation says. They (RCMP) can interpret it any way they want but the wording indicates that at minimum all pre charger mags are fine. As stated before Hot Lips and Steel Lips patented before the charger was invented. Never labelled, marketed or sold (as in the BX 25) for the charger. So how are mags bought 20 years before the charger was first built "designed or manufactured for use" in the charger? This is why the horsemen are reluctant to charge anyone with this and why when they do charge someone charges are dropped before court. Same as the beowulf mags. That being said I would not volunteer to be the guinea pig IF I owned a couple of these mags.

And you have your pistol mag rule idea reversed. By the logic of the 10/22 interpretation all pistol mags that fit in a center fire semi auto rifle would need to be pinned at 5 rounds.

I also cannot fail to point out that while quoting the regs you have left out the most important part

"3 (1) Any cartridge magazine

(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in

(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,

(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,

(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,

(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,

(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or

(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or

(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.

(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is chambered for, or designed to use, rimfire cartridges,"

Yes rimfire is exempt from the 5 round semi-auto center fire rule but it is not exempt from the handgun limit rule. Nothing is backwards in my previous post and it is not my "idea" of how it works, it is how it works.

Again the 2nd part of the definition is being interpreted that because the Charger is now available in Canada, any magazine that will function in the Charger is prohibited unless limited to 10 rounds regardless of manufactured date.

If you owned a 15 round magazine prior to 1992 for your semi-automatic pistol, is it exempt from the current pistol magazine limit? Manufactured date does not matter, and that fact that the magazines pre-date the Charger does not effect the classification.

I not saying I agree or disagree with any of this, but I don't think the court case has a hope in h#$% of winning. Just my opinion so send your money if you want for the legal fund.

[elkhunter11]

. The task of weighing public safety and risk was completed when the laws and regulations were written.

That is nothing short of laughable. If our firearms laws were drafted with public safety in mind, it wouldn't matter what the magazine was originally designed for, it would only matter what the magazine could be used in, as the original design has no influence on risk the magazine presents to the public. As to the other regulations, many are based on the manufacturer and model, and not on how the firearm functions. An AR-15 is restricted, yet other rifles that function the same, and fire the same cartridge, and therefore represent the same risk to the public. are non restricted, simply because they are built slightly different. The mini 14, which was used in one of the most famous if not the most famous shootings in Canada is still non restricted, so don't try and convince us that the firearms laws are based on public safety, and the risk to the public.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That is nothing short of laughable. If our firearms laws were drafted with public safety in mind, it wouldn't matter what the magazine was originally designed for, it would only matter what the magazine could be used in, as the original design has no influence on risk the magazine presents to the public. As to the other regulations, many are based on the manufacturer and model, and not on how the firearm functions. An AR-15 is restricted, yet other rifles that function the same, and fire the same cartridge, and therefore represent the same risk to the public. are non restricted, simply because they are built slightly different. The mini 14, which was used in one of the most famous if not the most famous shootings in Canada is still non restricted, so don't try and convince us that the firearms laws are based on public safety, and the risk to the public.

No argument here and I am not including personal views to the issue so please don't take the info I provided as pushing any type of agenda.

[denied access]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Yes rimfire is exempt from the 5 round semi-auto center fire rule but it is not exempt from the handgun limit rule. Nothing is backwards in my previous post and it is not my "idea" of how it works, it is how it works.

Again the 2nd part of the definition is being interpreted that because the Charger is now available in Canada, any magazine that will function in the Charger is prohibited unless limited to 10 rounds regardless of manufactured date.

If you owned a 15 round magazine prior to 1992 for your semi-automatic pistol, is it exempt from the current pistol magazine limit? Manufactured date does not matter, and that fact that the magazines pre-date the Charger does not effect the classification.

I not saying I agree or disagree with any of this, but I don't think the court case has a hope in h#$% of winning. Just my opinion so send your money if you want for the legal fund.

Already donated. I see your point that 3(1) exempts it from the 5 rd rifle restriction but not the 10 rd pistol limit. And that will be for a court to decide. But by your logic centerfire handgun mags that fit rifles should be pinned at 5. And probably that will be the next load of garbage they try to ram down our throats.

It needs to go to court. And appeal. To be determined the definition of designed or manufactured for use

[colroggal]

The way I see it a ruger 10/22 magazine, regardless of capacity is designed to be used in a ruger 10/22. A ruger charger pistol is designed to use ruger 10/22 magazines. I think it's a little more definitive than the chicken or the egg.

Colin

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by denied access

Already donated. I see your point that 3(1) exempts it from the 5 rd rifle restriction but not the 10 rd pistol limit. And that will be for a court to decide. But by your logic centerfire handgun mags that fit rifles should be pinned at 5. And probably that will be the next load of garbage they try to ram down our throats.

It needs to go to court. And appeal. To be determined the definition of designed or manufactured for use

No that has already been determined that if they are designed for both it defaults to the pistol magazine limit, which for centerfire the pistol limit is higher than the rifle limit.

As I said earlier, because this is the first dual purpose rimfire magazine, defaulting to the pistol magazine limit is detrimental to the shooter where normally it is a benefit.

[denied access]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

No that has already been determined that if they are designed for both it defaults to the pistol magazine limit, which for centerfire the pistol limit is higher than the rifle limit.

As I said earlier, because this is the first dual purpose rimfire magazine, defaulting to the pistol magazine limit is detrimental to the shooter where normally it is a benefit.

Source?

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by denied access

Source?

Maximum Permitted Magazine Capacity

Special Bulletin for Businesses No. 72

Background

The maximum capacity of a cartridge magazine is set out in Part 4 of the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted. The Regulations prescribe “prohibited devices”, and a magazine that has a capacity which exceeds the maximum permitted capacity is a prohibited device. Businesses can be in possession of prohibited devices if appropriately licensed. However, individuals may not possess prohibited devices.

The magazine regulations have been in force since 1993. However, in recent years, new cartridge magazines have been introduced which have resulted in novel situations as it concerns the application of the Regulations. There has been no change to the Regulations. Nonetheless, the application of the existing Regulations to a few new products has given the appearance of a change in the law. This has been particularly evident in the case of cartridge magazines designed or manufactured for more than one type of firearm.

Purpose

The purpose of this bulletin is to provide greater clarity on the maximum permitted capacity of cartridge magazines designed or manufactured for use in more than one kind of firearm. Note that the maximum permitted capacity of a magazine is determined by the physical characteristics of the firearm it is designed or manufactured for and the type of ammunition for which it is designed. The maximum permitted capacity of the magazine does not depend on the classification of the firearm, nor does the magazine capacity influence the classification of the firearm.

Current Issues

1. Magazines designed or manufactured for both rimfire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain rimfire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a rifle do not have a regulated capacity. However, magazines designed to contain rimfire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the handgun limit of 10 cartridges.

Example:
Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 rifle and 15-22P pistol chambered for 22LR caliber:

the 10 round magazine is unregulated
the 25 round magazine is a prohibited device
Example 2*: The Ruger BX-25 magazine, chambered for 22 LR calibre, is designed and manufactured for use in the Ruger SR22 rifle, the 10/22 family of rifles/carbines and the 22 Charger handgun. As a result, this magazine is a prohibited device unless modified so its capacity is 10 cartridges or less. (*This information was not included in the original version of this bulletin, but was added on 2013-09-05.)


2. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the limit of five cartridges.

Example:
Hi-Point rifle and handgun chambered for 9mm Luger caliber:

magazine capacities over five rounds are prohibited.

3. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre semiautomatic rifles and other (non-semiautomatic) rifles

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a rifle other than a semiautomatic or automatic rifle, do not have a regulated capacity. Magazines that are designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and other (non-semiautomatic) rifles are subject to the semiautomatic rifle limit of five cartridges.

Example:
Remington model 7615 pump action rifle chambered for 223 Remington caliber:

the 10 round magazine is prohibited
the five round magazine is unregulated

4. Magazines designed for one firearm but used in a different firearm

The maximum permitted capacity of a magazine is determined by the kind of firearm it is designed or manufactured for use in and not the kind of firearm it might actually be used in. As a consequence, the maximum permitted capacity remains the same regardless of which firearm it might be used in.

Example:
The Marlin model 45 (Camp Carbine) rifle chambered for 45 Auto caliber uses magazines designed and manufactured for the Colt 1911 handgun, therefore the seven round and eight round capacities are permitted.


5. Magazines for semiautomatic handguns which contain more than ten (10) rounds of a different calibre

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun, are limited to 10 cartridges. The capacity is measured by the kind of cartridge the magazine was designed to contain. In some cases the magazine will be capable of containing more than 10 rounds of a different caliber; however that is not relevant in the determination of the maximum permitted capacity.

Example:
Heckler and Koch P7 pistol chambered for 9mm Luger caliber:
The magazine designed for the 40 S&W calibre variant of the pistol will hold 13 cartridges of 9mm Luger calibre and function in the 9mm Luger calibre P7 pistol. This is permissible as the maximum permitted capacity of the 40 S&W calibre magazine must be measured by the number of 40 S&W calibre cartridges it is capable of holding, which is 10 such cartridges in the case of the HK P7 pistol magazine.

For more information, please contact the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program by one of the following methods:
telephone: 1 800-731-4000
web site: www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm
e-mail: cfp-pcaf@rcmp-grc.gc.ca

This bulletin is intended to provide general information only. For legal references, please refer to the Firearms Act, the Criminal Code and Regulations. Provincial, territorial and municipal laws, regulations and policies may also apply.

[agentcq]

Milarm has some of the large capacity (25x mag rounds) pinned to 10x rounds.
Not a perfect solution, but they do accept a quick loading stripper clip, so its a half solution.

And you can then use that as a template to pin your old magazines that are none-pinned.

[denied access]

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[denied access]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

No that has already been determined that if they are designed for both it defaults to the pistol magazine limit, which for centerfire the pistol limit is higher than the rifle limit.

As I said earlier, because this is the first dual purpose rimfire magazine, defaulting to the pistol magazine limit is detrimental to the shooter where normally it is a benefit.


2. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the limit of five cartridges.

So which is it?