ANOTHER school shooting. -Florida-

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by 223MB

Just my beliefs brother, I don’t feel for the drug users. Is it an issue? Definitely and I do feel for some of those innocent victims as well. These kids in the school didn’t die from a bad batch of cocaine or some other illegal drug, they were simply going to school.

If you got rid of all the drugs there would be a lot less junkies correct?
A life is a life and how many good people fall into addiction for different reasons. So what about their kids? The kid that did this act of terror had no parents, his foster parents both died although I’m not sure how.
It looks as though the system of support failed and not the gun laws as there were more than enough warning signs that showed this kid should have been in some kind of support program.
The system failed and that’s just my beliefs bro.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Crankbait

This article is pretty telling on how something that worked;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.cf1e4c133438

That article is ridiculous. I wonder how many AR-15s are in civilian hands in the States right now. As well, how many standard capacity magazines? Do they plan on rounding these all up?

Not only are there millions of AR-15s, but there is also a provision that allows citizens to make their own AR-15s, without a serial number. Do they plan on going door to door? We know what will happen if they do...

[Pioneer2]

Society getting colder and stupider by the minute?

[Newview01]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-shooting.html

Bulletproof backpacks have seen a huge boost in sales following the deadly shooting which killed 17 people at a Florida high school.
Sales of Bullet Blocker's fortified backpacks, which cost anywhere between $200 and $500, have seen a 30 per cent boost in sales. The company claimed it sold 500 of the bags on Thursday, the day after the attack.
Joe Curran, the company's owner, said most of the backpacks are due to be sent to Florida, he told TMZ.
On Bullet Blocker's website, there are up to 12 different bulletproof backpacks, ranging from $199 to $490.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

If you got rid of all the drugs there would be a lot less junkies correct?
A life is a life and how many good people fall into addiction for different reasons. So what about their kids? The kid that did this act of terror had no parents, his foster parents both died although I’m not sure how.
It looks as though the system of support failed and not the gun laws as there were more than enough warning signs that showed this kid should have been in some kind of support program.
The system failed and that’s just my beliefs bro.

The shooter was known to have issues so serious, that he was reported to the FBI months before the shooting. Obviously, he didn't get the help that he required.

[223MB]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The shooter was known to have issues so serious, that he was reported to the FBI months before the shooting. Obviously, he didn't get the help that he required.

Hasn’t been any reports yet if he ever did receive mental help but the fact he was on the radar and was still allowed to possess these weapons is mind blowing. As of right now it looks like the FBI had the chance and ignored the threats.

[Unregistered user]

FBI, not getting good PR these days are they?

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Do you know that there were lives saved? There is no proof either way, but to think that having some firearms registered and some not is going to save lives shows some real lack of common sense.

No I do not know that! Never claimed I did! My point was that that there was no proof of the "not one live saved" statement.

You seem to have a problem dealing with what is factual and what is not. Not one life saved is not factual. Nothing new as far as you are concerned.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

No I do not know that! Never claimed I did! My point was that that there was no proof of the "not one live saved" statement.

You seem to have a problem dealing with what is factual and what is not. Not one life saved is not factual. Nothing new as far as you are concerned.

You need to read what you just stated.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Guys, lets exam the facts, the fool with his AR-15 with many large clips got off 150 shots in 7 minutes. I know my 7mm ruger with 3 in chamber could never get even 1/10th that much carnage on young kids in a school.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You are a real minority in terms of RPAL holders.

I have yet to understand how it is safer for me to shoot at a busy range than my remote acreage.

Actually he sounds like someone more concerned with the lives of his and others children than the NRA is.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Guys, lets exam the facts, the fool with his AR-15 with many large clips got off 150 shots in 7 minutes. I know my 7mm ruger with 3 in chamber could never get even 1/10th that much carnage on young kids in a school.

How much carnage do you think that someone could do in 7 minutes with a typical 12 gauge semi auto or pump action waterfowl gun shooting 00buck? With 15 lead balls per shot , even 10 shots per minute is 150 of those lead balls per minute, so over 1000 in seven minutes. Remember, the fire alarm had gone off, so the people were concentrated, so each shot could hit multiple people. It doesn't take an AR-15 with large capacity magazines to do a lot of damage, grandpa's duck gun could do at least as much damage in that situation.

[funclint03]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

In 2017 there were 6880 gun related deaths in the US which a majority were Suicides.
Between July of 2016 to July of 2017 there were 66,972 drug overdose deaths in the US which a lot were from opioids. Many of these were also children.
So why so much more focus on guns than drugs?
Sounds like politics to me.
I believe both of these stats are horrible but one far and above takes more lives.

I feel like the difference is that in all these cases of mass killings the killer didn't go dose people with fatal amounts of Fentanyl. The mass murderer when drugs like Fentanyl are involved is usually organized crime, and the people affected for the most part are ones who knowingly buy and consume the product knowing full well it may lead to their death.

If some idiot feels like going on a killing rampage they are going to use the most effective killing method available. This is why they seek out assault rifles and the like. Do you think the guy in Vegas could have killed all of those people by sneaking up and blowing Fentanyl in their faces?

Like you I also believe that all of these stats are terrible, but at the very least we see Governments trying new ways to combat the Opioid Crisis. In the US all you see them do to address the mass shootings is "Pray" and "wait for the right time to address it" which never seems to come.

Sure mental health is a big big part of it, then let's see the Government down there admit that the two problems go hand in hand, and do something to address it instead of passing the buck.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by funclint03

I feel like the difference is that in all these cases of mass killings the killer didn't go dose people with fatal amounts of Fentanyl. The mass murderer when drugs like Fentanyl are involved is usually organized crime, and the people affected for the most part are ones who knowingly buy and consume the product knowing full well it may lead to their death.

Actually, organized crime knows that good product is good business. It’s the backyard chemist that has inconsistent supply chain and inadequate equipment that blow the whole thing up.

If some idiot feels like going on a killing rampage they are going to use the most effective killing method available. This is why they seek out assault rifles and the like. Do you think the guy in Vegas could have killed all of those people by sneaking up and blowing Fentanyl in their faces?

Mixing a bad batch of fentanyl and distributing it on the street could, and has done much more damage.

Like you I also believe that all of these stats are terrible, but at the very least we see Governments trying new ways to combat the Opioid Crisis. In the US all you see them do to address the mass shootings is "Pray" and "wait for the right time to address it" which never seems to come.

Sure mental health is a big big part of it, then let's see the Government down there admit that the two problems go hand in hand, and do something to address it instead of passing the buck.

The American people have democratically choosen a direction that is somewhat indifferent to these situations, and it’s understandable that the non supporters are outraged. I suspect that we will see a continued rise in all areas of social digress as the US redefines itself. ‘Praying’ maybe their only salvation.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

I suspect that we will see a continued rise in all areas of social digress as the US redefines itself. ‘Praying’ maybe their only salvation.

OR home schooling. I think they have tried metal detectors and armed guards

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by 223MB

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn....ing/index.html

17 confirmed dead.

I watched the videos and could not stop the tears.
What a horrific senseless tragedy.
what the hell is wrong with people?

[Athabasca1]

Very tragic event indeed.
FBI released a statement today stating that they did not properly follow up on the tip they received about the shooter. They said protocol was not followed and that the FBI Miami office of the FBI should have investigated. Quite different than their previous statement when the FBI said they could not locate the individual. Mental Health issues need to be addressed.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Guys, lets exam the facts, the fool with his AR-15 with many large clips got off 150 shots in 7 minutes. I know my 7mm ruger with 3 in chamber could never get even 1/10th that much carnage on young kids in a school.

Well once the semis are banned (here anyway) they'll go after repeaters- that's you, then the single shots, muzzle loaders etc. Either all guns are bad or none are. Besides in a crowded hallway your 7mm will go thru more people than a .223. Think before throwing other gun-owners under the freight train.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

Actually, organized crime knows that good product is good business. It’s the backyard chemist that has inconsistent supply chain and inadequate equipment that blow the whole thing up.


Mixing a bad batch of fentanyl and distributing it on the street could, and has done much more damage.



The American people have democratically choosen a direction that is somewhat indifferent to these situations, and it’s understandable that the non supporters are outraged. I suspect that we will see a continued rise in all areas of social digress as the US redefines itself. ‘Praying’ maybe their only salvation.

Then again, maybe not. Mueller’s dept uncovers a Russian connection that may be seen as obfuscating democratic process. This is really going to get interesting. Doesn’t help correct a decaying social structure, only exemplifies how that structure becomes vulnerable. Great turmoil ahead.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Guys, lets exam the facts, the fool with his AR-15 with many large clips got off 150 shots in 7 minutes. I know my 7mm ruger with 3 in chamber could never get even 1/10th that much carnage on young kids in a school.

So, is this about capacity or styles of guns?

[DiabeticKripple]

It’s sad to see gun owners standing up for the anti gun lobby and selling out. I can’t believe how many anti’s we have on this board.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Athabasca1

Very tragic event indeed.
FBI released a statement today stating that they did not properly follow up on the tip they received about the shooter. They said protocol was not followed and that the FBI Miami office of the FBI should have investigated. Quite different than their previous statement when the FBI said they could not locate the individual. Mental Health issues need to be addressed.

Yep, definitely looks like the FBI missed an opportunity to intervene. And yes, I agree that mental health issues need to be addressed - and it's safe to say MH is definitely a precipitating factor in all or most of these shootings. That said, the rates and prevalence of MH disorders are not higher per capita in the US than other countries in the industrialized world, but the rates of gun violence seems to be.

But there are many layers here. Even though the USA has by far the highest rate of gun related deaths in the industrialized world, there are many countries with much higher rates with far fewer guns owned / citizen, as found in some struggling south american and african countries that can have rates at least 4x the gun death rate of the USA. Although, corrupt governments and organized crime probably factor in in these cases.

If even close to accurate, this is a very interesting link to gun deaths around the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

Perhaps the most staggering statistic I found on this page is the rate of suicides by gun, where the USA is second highest in the world only to Montenegro. In the case of suicide (and possibly homicide to some degree), maybe it's not so much a "gun control" issue as it is a "proximity to gun during dark times" issue. Not to sound glib, but this is not unlike the communities in Alberta who voted out VLTs and saw local problem gambling rates drop off significantly.

There was a post earlier comparing guns to cars killing people. Here's another way to look at it: If you have a country with an average of 4 cars on the road per km and a country with 40 cars on the road per km, guess which country is going to have more car related deaths? This is the case with the USA and proximity to guns. When the worldwide average is 15 guns owned per 100 inhabitants and the USA sits at 101.5 guns owned per 100 inhabitants (highest in the world) - then $h1ts gonna happen...

[Athabasca1]

Based on the World Health Organization report from 2004, the USA had the highest Mental Health Disorders at 26.4%. Countries included in the report were 14, USA, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Ukraine, Mexico, Columbia, France, Spain, Japan, Nigeria, Lebanon, Italy and Beijing China.

I found the report, albeit quite old (2004), on the NBC Mental Health page. I could not find an updated report.

Since it appears that the USA has done little to address Mental Health issues for many years it possibly is reasonable to assume that the USA does still have a very high rate of Mental Health disorders.
If someone can provide a link to The NBC Mental Health page or an updated report from the WHO please do.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

It’s sad to see gun owners standing up for the anti gun lobby and selling out. I can’t believe how many anti’s we have on this board.

If you are aware of antis on this board, you should identify them. I’m quite sure that the moderators will close their accounts.

[Athabasca1]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5111202/ns...ss-widespread/

See the WHO report for percentage by country.

Yes the report is old, but much like a flat tire, if you do not fix the flat tire it stays flat.

[obsessed1]

Notice that most of the anti' s here don't even seem to know what they are talking about. High cap clips???? What the heck is a clip?? Assault rifle??? My 1904 Enfield was built with the sole purpose of killing Germans does that qualify it as an assault weapon? What about a civil war era musket?? Americans just walking in to a store and walking out with a gun?? What did one guy say? Buy a dozen donuts and get a free gun??( Not exact quote. It was a few pages back) I know for a fact ( as I have family members in the us) that these assumptions of how easily the media says it is is not true. Most of you anti's should brush up on your firearm knowledge so you don't come across as a dummy while talking about firearms around a bunch of gun guys.

As for the shooting it's tragic and IMO the shooter should have gotten help long before the incident. But no gun laws would have changed the outcome

[Skoaltender]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

It’s sad to see gun owners standing up for the anti gun lobby and selling out. I can’t believe how many anti’s we have on this board.

In your opinion what needs to be done to limit these massacres?

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Skoaltender

In your opinion what needs to be done to limit these massacres?

Bad things happen and many people believe something needs to be done.

What if nothing can be done? What if that kid was destine to do harm to others, like a Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper or even Hitler? Obviously there is as many ways to kill as the insane mind can imagination.

Our societies (the US and Canada) have fallen in to the politically correct belief that all people are essentially good and that with certain control and the proper guidance even those that drift off the path can be saved. Even when we fail, we feel better because we tryed something and try to think of something else.

Unfortunately this is not true and evil people have terrorized the planet from the very beginning. There is no amount of regulation or good intention that is ever going to change that.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Bad things happen and many people believe something needs to be done.

What if nothing can be done? What if that kid was destine to do harm to others, like a Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper or even Hitler? Obviously there is as many ways to kill as the insane mind can imagination.

Our societies (the US and Canada) have fallen in to the politically correct belief that all people are essentially good and that with certain control and the proper guidance even those that drift off the path can be saved. Even when we fail, we feel better because we tryed something and try to think of something else.

Unfortunately this is not true and evil people have terrorized the planet from the very beginning. There is no amount of regulation or good intention that is ever going to change that.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous.

[slough shark]

There are a few simple things they need to do and then an observation, first they need to screen people getting guns for mental illness and criminal records a bit better. Other than that laws might be tweaked here and there but those are the bigger ones. The observation I have is these mass shootings started proliferating around the time a few things happened, internet became a bigger thing followed by the rise of social media. Social media promised connection and understanding but it seems it’s pushed people further away from each other (while at the same time highlighting differences and driving wedges). The other thing is the video games and tv/movies that we have nowadays, much more graphic and violent than they were 20 years ago, they’re also much more involved and time consuming, I’m not saying video games make people do this but the desensitizing and isolation they cause don’t do many people any good