Fishing Wabamun.

[FishingFrenzy]

Originally Posted by cmdalexander

Overtime, a strict C and R policy will eventually hurt a lakes capacity to produce trophies.

A system can only produce so much food, oxygen etc. (carrying capacity)

I would be in favour of a very limited keep policy - say 1 per day per angler and have a maximum keep size, instead of a minimum.

Say one Pike under 75 cm (just as an example).

This will allow big fish to get and little fish to get eaten.

I believe this type of management is especially important when dealing with Apex predators.

Okay, Not to flame but....

Thats not what carrying capacity means in its full definition.

Carrying capacity is, essentially, the ability of an ecosystem to support itself. The carrying capacity depends on a number of biotic and abiotic factors, as well as the density dependent and density independent factors of the organisms in the population.

Its true an ecosystem can only produce so much food, so much oxygen, etc.

However, human harvest of fish in most cases will not improve the quality of the fishery. Fish will die if theres not enough food. If they don't die they just dont grow as big, then at some point they become the food.

In most cases if a lake is "stunted" its partially because the big girls have been removed and theres not enough natural predators to control the population. It could also be due to the fact that there are declining populations of fish eating birds in an area that causes lakes to stunt.

Im getting off track now but overall, mother nature can do her job just fine. There's no reason for humans to start "playing god".

[Safety D]

Wab is definately NOT dead !!

[Bush]

Originally Posted by FishingFrenzy

Okay, Not to flame but....

Thats not what carrying capacity means in its full definition.

Carrying capacity is, essentially, the ability of an ecosystem to support itself. The carrying capacity depends on a number of biotic and abiotic factors, as well as the density dependent and density independent factors of the organisms in the population.

Its true an ecosystem can only produce so much food, so much oxygen, etc.

However, human harvest of fish in most cases will not improve the quality of the fishery. Fish will die if theres not enough food. If they don't die they just dont grow as big, then at some point they become the food.

In most cases if a lake is "stunted" its partially because the big girls have been removed and theres not enough natural predators to control the population. It could also be due to the fact that there are declining populations of fish eating birds in an area that causes lakes to stunt.

Im getting off track now but overall, mother nature can do her job just fine. There's no reason for humans to start "playing god".

But. If you were to eat all the big jacks there would be more food for the smaller jacks causing them to grow faster. That 30 lb jack has been eating 45 lbs of perch or its own babbies every year

Humans aren't playing god it is simply nature humans are eating fish

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Bush

But. If you were to eat all the big jacks there would be more food for the smaller jacks causing them to grow faster. That 30 lb jack has been eating 45 lbs of perch or its own babbies every year

Humans aren't playing god it is simply nature humans are eating fish

Some lakes have had little or no human interaction in hundreds of years and still do very well....its the whole concept behind a closed ecosystem....

LC

[tysonlazo2]

just a coupel things this sunday me and some freinds are gonna be out there one is the ice still safe to drive on with all this warm weather and is there any thing we should watch out for and another the only reason wabamun is so thriveing with fish not saying its a good thing is that all the fish are toxic arent they ? with mercury in them ? but yeh ice thickness would be nice

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by tysonlazo2

just a coupel things this sunday me and some freinds are gonna be out there one is the ice still safe to drive on with all this warm weather and is there any thing we should watch out for and another the only reason wabamun is so thriveing with fish not saying its a good thing is that all the fish are toxic arent they ? with mercury in them ? but yeh ice thickness would be nice

doesnt matter if they have a high merc content....... your not gonna eat em.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by tysonlazo2

just a coupel things this sunday me and some freinds are gonna be out there one is the ice still safe to drive on with all this warm weather and is there any thing we should watch out for and another the only reason wabamun is so thriveing with fish not saying its a good thing is that all the fish are toxic arent they ? with mercury in them ? but yeh ice thickness would be nice

Truthfully.....I don't think the fish in Wab have high levels of mercury.

....in the end it doesn't matter as the entire lake is C&R for all species...

LC

[DOGFISH]

Just to clarify this issue with mercury in fish, did you know where it comes from? Most of it is naturally occurring from sediment that is washed in and released. It has always been there. Even fish in our oceans have it, the older the fish the more it can have. I believe the fish in Wabuman are C&R as a precaution. Safety times ten when dealing with the general public and especially when involved with such a high profile spill.

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by burbotman

Overtime a healthy balanced fishery tends to be the by product. There is a reason people pay big bucks to fly in and fish those northern lakes. Mother nature is pretty good at what she does when left alone.

Words from a humble yet very smart member of this forum.

[Speckle55]

it really make's no differnce either way as it is a big ecosystem and has been catch and keep for 100 years before the spill the reason it went to catch and release was because of spill not for any other reason chemical levels in fish

each system can handle x number of harvest just like lake that allow net harvest if the lake has the proper shoals flats and plankton/zooilogy then it will be very hard to kill much and within a year that year class is replaced

.. to the people say catch and release do you think that the fish you handle don,t have a percent that will die anyway because of the stress etc or from the fight any how you are dreaming

the lake was change with the stroke of a pen for a reason unrelated to fishing with a stroke of a pen give it back as Alberta doesn,t have many lakes and there are other fish(lake whites) that could be kept if your chemical levels are down .


. wow

mother nature will adjust and the fishery will do fine no more gloom and doom please. the guys were spear fishing 30 lber from lake for years before you shut down spearfishing by the outlets

Food for Thought
David

[QIsley]

Wabamun is C&R for all species because the recruitment is very poor. Very few young fish, most of the fish are adults.

The fish do have high mercury and the Biologists are trying to get Walleye re-established. http://srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/SRDStories.aspx

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by QIsley

Wabamun is C&R for all species because the recruitment is very poor. Very few young fish, most of the fish are adults.

The fish do have high mercury and the Biologists are trying to get Walleye re-established. http://srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/SRDStories.aspx

Show me the study(2012) of high mercey levels on lake Whitefish in the meat and do your walleye experiment and good luck . there are lots of reasons why the walleye left the system that are unknown some lakes have very little productivity just like farms if you try to grow bananas in Alberta good luck.

i sat on the walleye commision that shut down the fishery and i still think we should of found a walleye stock program first . but hey what do i know don,t have a degree.. now the lake we closed are being opened lake by lake by public pressure and nothing has change in the lake just we are reducing angling hours on keeping fish. the other way was the same as only x number of fish in each year class become legal in slots etc

Food for Thought
David

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by QIsley

Wabamun is C&R for all species because the recruitment is very poor. Very few young fish, most of the fish are adults.

The fish do have high mercury and the Biologists are trying to get Walleye re-established. http://srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/SRDStories.aspx

X2 this is what I've heard as well many times over...poor recruitment.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by QIsley

Wabamun is C&R for all species because the recruitment is very poor. Very few young fish, most of the fish are adults.

That almost sounds like a nice way to say that the bigger fish are eating all of the smaller ones.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

That almost sounds like a nice way to say that the bigger fish are eating all of the smaller ones.

So, if there are so many big ones, why aren't they having more babies? No one is keeping any of the small ones, I don't understand how there could be a shortage. Wouldn't each large female pike have more babies than she would eat in a year?

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

So, if there are so many big ones, why aren't they having more babies? No one is keeping any of the small ones, I don't understand how there could be a shortage. Wouldn't each large female pike have more babies than she would eat in a year?

they are having problems spawning.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

they are having problems spawning.

I see.. Well that's no good. Weed bed removal? Pole Oil contamination?

[thorne]

Well when I posted this in was curious about opinions, and hopefully dredge up some hard facts. So far some Awsome opinions. I just want to put it out there again that my personal views on keeping Wabamun C and R are not due to me believing in total C and R. Just to see how well a system would do without a harvest. I keep lots for the table from other lakes, and I know lots of released fish die. Was hoping someone closer to the decision making would have a say on this or any future plans.

BTW, still lots of ice!

[Stewie]

I would love to see a lot of the lakes C&R… especially those close to major cities…

Wabamun has been so much fun fishing since it went catch and release…

I think Alberta is completely backwards on how it manages its lakes… take Seibert for example a “trophy Lake”… and all you can keep are the Trophies…??? 10 years ago you would pull out 20 pounders no problem… now you’re lucky to catch one over 10 cause all the true trophies ended up on some ones frying pan

[Jwood 456]

I'm my opinion, Wab should stay C and R. ever since I heard about that fishery being catch and release, I have heard about the numbers of large pike catches skyrocketing. To add to that, many of those untouched back bush lakes that don't winterkill, have proven to be full of Jumbo perch.

As for introducing walleye into the lake, I think it's a dumb idea. Wanamun is known as a trophy pike fishery and the introduced walleye would compete with the pike for food and in the worst case over run the pike. I believe that Alberta already does have many great walleye fisheries while I believe that many of them are overun with walleye to the point the walleye are being stunted.

As for the supossed mercury contamination, I hear that coal smoke from the power plants could be contributing to alot of it.

Here's a link to mercury from human sources.
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/sources.asp

As for the whitefish and burbot, my fishing partner has caught a few white fish on a walleye jig tipped with a minnow and has also caugh them on perch jigs that were jogged aggressively. My fishing partner also saw what looked to be a 3ft + burbot on the fish camera that was biting a large plain storm perch wildeye.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by QIsley

Wabamun is C&R for all species because the recruitment is very poor. Very few young fish, most of the fish are adults.

The fish do have high mercury and the Biologists are trying to get Walleye re-established. http://srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/SRDStories.aspx

Very good info QIsley. This explains the netting that went on in Lac Ste Anne last spring. Rumor had it that the walleye were headed to Wabumun but I wasn't sure that it was true. I was thinking that they might have been headed to Lac Isle after last years winter kill but I don't suppose that there was any way of knowing that would happen when the biologists were in the planning stages for Wab.

I'm sure that the biologists have a plan but I just don't understand the logic. The walleye don't spawn with any success in Wab so it sounds like they are going to supply expensive bait fish for the pike by introducing walleye fry.

Has any thought been given to thinning out the adult pike population in conjunction with adding the walleye?

IMO leaving all of the pike the way that they are is very short sighted. Sure, it's fun to go out and catch lots of big pike but when they eventually eat themselves out of house and home then what? IMO F&W will eventually have to open the lake up to keeping the larger pike in order bring a balance of fish populations to Wab and it would have happened sooner if not for the risk of people getting sick from eating them. Nothing scientific about it, just my thoughts.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

IMO leaving all of the pike the way that they are is very short sighted. Sure, it's fun to go out and catch lots of big pike but when they eventually eat themselves out of house and home then what? IMO F&W will eventually have to open the lake up to keeping the larger pike in order bring a balance of fish populations to Wab and it would have happened sooner if not for the risk of people getting sick from eating them. Nothing scientific about it, just my thoughts.

I don't understand this. Before anyone ever fished wab, wouldn't the lake have died off if this were true? I can't imagine wab having WORSE fishing BEFORE it was disturbed by humans.

[QIsley]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I'm sure that the biologists have a plan but I just don't understand the logic. The walleye don't spawn with any success in Wab so it sounds like they are going to supply expensive bait fish for the pike by introducing walleye fry.

Has any thought been given to thinning out the adult pike population in conjunction with adding the walleye?

IMO leaving all of the pike the way that they are is very short sighted. Sure, it's fun to go out and catch lots of big pike but when they eventually eat themselves out of house and home then what? IMO F&W will eventually have to open the lake up to keeping the larger pike in order bring a balance of fish populations to Wab and it would have happened sooner if not for the risk of people getting sick from eating them. Nothing scientific about it, just my thoughts.

From what I understand the walleye spawn was not successful because they were spawning in the warm water from the power plant too early because of the water temperature, so when the fry hatched there was no food for them (because it was still winter in the rest of lake) and they did not survive. Although there where a few Walleye in the lake (prior to the stocking), just not very many, I hear of a few that get caught each year and people report seeing the odd one on camera. Now the plant is closed (ending the water temperature problem) they are trying to get the walleye population re-established (they naturally occurred in the lake).

Fisheries are monitoring the lake regularly to evaluate the age structure and the population dynamics of all species. The problem is limited successful spawning so there are not enough young fish to replace the adults, therefore no harvest-able surplus of fish available.

The adults just keep getting bigger, and that's a good thing, but the population in terms of numbers of fish is not getting bigger. Throw in the illegal harvest that occurs (regularly despite fines of $1,000/fish) and some hooking mortality with no or very limited recruitment and the number of fish gets smaller.

So, from what I understand, until the population dynamics improve it will remain catch and release, all species.
Time will tell.......

[HunterDave]

I never thought about what the effect of the warm water from the plant had. Well, hopefully some balance for the lake can be found.