Campfire Debate_Ultimate NA Big Game Calibre Sans the big bears

[270person]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

And yet by your own admission, you've never shot an animal with the 7-08.

Dude. Why would I need to when I've shot them with a 270? Something magical about the 08 over it that I'm missing? No. It's lesser.

Point was the 08 isn't near most of the other 284's mentioned. Shoots the same bullet and other than that it's the little sister.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Lets put it this way .. Have I taken Game with one cartridge that I would not have attempted with another?, the answer is yes. From your list of heavy hitters, my choice is the 7 STW. I don't see a 7mm-08 listed.
What's you're point ?

My point is. I have taken game with the 7-08, 7x57, 280, 280 AI, 7mm rem mag, and 7mm Mashburn. I’ll be hanged if I could see any difference in their effects on game. And I’m guessing any observers couldn’t come close to guessing what cartridge was being used.

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by 270person

Dude. Why would I need to when I've shot them with a 270? Something magical about the 08 over it that I'm missing? No. It's lesser.

Point was the 08 isn't near most of the other 284's mentioned. Shoots the same bullet and other than that it's the little sister.

No, your point was that the 7mm-08 was so anemic that it wasn't worthy of the list.
And I'm not Dude!

[270person]

Originally Posted by chuck

My point is. I have taken game with the 7-08, 7x57, 280, 280 AI, 7mm rem mag, and 7mm Mashburn. I’ll be hanged if I could see any difference in their effects on game. And I’m guessing any observers couldn’t come close to guessing what cartridge was being used.

Deads dead is the right answer. I've killed them with a small car too and I wasn't going nearly as fast as any of those. Most were at point blank range tho.

[270person]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

No, your point was that the 7mm-08 was so anemic that it wasn't worthy of the list.
And I'm not Dude!

Ok then dudette. It IS pretty anemic compared to "most" of the other 284's mentioned. If you disagree then no problem.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

My point is. I have taken game with the 7-08, 7x57, 280, 280 AI, 7mm rem mag, and 7mm Mashburn. I’ll be hanged if I could see any difference in their effects on game. And I’m guessing any observers couldn’t come close to guessing what cartridge was being used.

You probably didn't see the difference. Change the circumstances of each kill situation and I'm sure you will come up with a favorite sooner or later. I still don't get the point you are trying to make.

[Okotokian]

The largest legal caliber you can shoot well without flinching. If that's a .243, go get 'em.

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by 270person

Ok then dudette. It IS pretty anemic compared to "most" of the other 284's mentioned. If you disagree then no problem.

Personal insults are a sure sign that someone is getting desperate for intelligent debate.

Have you ever considered that a 150 grain bullet such as a Game King launched from a 7-08 will only be 100+/- fps slower at 1000 yards than the same bullet launched from a 7mm Rem Mag?

[Deer Hunter]

I have found that shorter barrel lengths common on some of these 7-08/short action lightweight rifles can sure handicap your muzzle velocities

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

Personal insults are a sure sign that someone is getting desperate for intelligent debate.

Have you ever considered that a 150 grain bullet such as a Game King launched from a 7-08 will only be 100+/- fps slower at 1000 yards than the same bullet launched from a 7mm Rem Mag?

I think a better comparison would be to run a 175 gr in both. The differences between the two at 1000 yds becomes much more obvious.

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

I have found that shorter barrel lengths common on some of these 7-08/short action lightweight rifles can sure handicap your muzzle velocities

This is true, and it's not a factor that is limited to the 7-08, many other calibers (as well as 270's) have 20 to 22 inch barrels too!

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I think a better comparison would be to run a 175 gr in both. The differences between the two at 1000 yds becomes much more obvious.

I guess the point is that there are lots of variables not previously mentioned and by the way those bullet weights are not available in lighter calibers.

[Norwest Alta]

If my wife wanted to hunt I’d get her a 270. Since she doesn’t I’ll leave them in the store for the rest of the women to buy.

[bobinthesky]

The funny thing is, I've never been interested enough in the 7mm-08 to purchase one! I just don't like people making uninformed statements.

[Don_Parsons]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I don't see a 7mm-08 listed ?

It is the very first caliber in the list.
The reason it's in the list might have something to do with the 7x57 that is real close in velocities

Don

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

I guess the point is that there are lots of variables not previously mentioned and by the way those bullet weights are not available in lighter calibers.

Not available in all commercial 7mm ammo but .284 bullets are available...as you know.
A fair comparison of any one cartridge to another is to load each to it's maximum potential with a heavier bullet. Almost any common Big Game cartridge will launch a 140-150 gr bullet, but many lack the potential "horsepower" to handle heavy for caliber fodder at reasonable velocities.. making them less versatile. My take anyway.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Not available in all commercial 7mm ammo but .284 bullets are available...as you know.
A fair comparison of any one cartridge to another is to load each to it's maximum potential with a heavier bullet. Almost any common Big Game cartridge will launch a 140-150 gr bullet, but many lack the potential "horsepower" to handle heavy for caliber fodder at reasonable velocities.. making them less versatile. My take anyway.

The question I have is is there such a thing as deader?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

The question I have is is there such a thing as deader?

Yep .. deader than the one I wounded that died a day later .

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Not available in all commercial 7mm ammo but .284 bullets are available...as you know.
A fair comparison of any one cartridge to another is to load each to it's maximum potential with a heavier bullet. Almost any common Big Game cartridge will launch a 140-150 gr bullet, but many lack the potential "horsepower" to handle heavy for caliber fodder at reasonable velocities.. making them less versatile. My take anyway.

So exactly which big game animals in Alberta require more than a 140-150 gr bullet out of a 280rem or 7mmremmag to kill cleanly?

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You may only pull the trigger once at a big game animal, but you should pull the trigger many times to sight in and practice prior to going hunting. And once a person get's sensitive to recoil, it can take a long time to get comfortable enough to shoot the rifle with confidence.

When your at the bench you can reduce the recoil if you need to. Buy a sporting clays shirt with the little gel pad or get a lead sled.
You can just shoot a few from the STW then switch to a smaller
Caliber when practicing.
You don't have to shoot two boxes when you sight in or practise.
There are lots of ways from getting flinchy.
And make sure your scope has good eye relief so you don't get scoped.
Seen it a few times I've never been.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

When your at the bench you can reduce the recoil if you need to. Buy a sporting clays shirt with the little gel pad or get a lead sled.
You can just shoot a few from the STW then switch to a smaller
Caliber when practicing.
You don't have to shoot two boxes when you sight in or practise.
There are lots of ways from getting flinchy.
And make sure your scope has good eye relief so you don't get scoped.
Seen it a few times I've never been.

I have never had an issue with recoil effecting my shooting, but many people do. I shot an unbraked 300RUM for several years, and shot sub 1/2 moa with it. And I will never resort to a lead sled or a brake. Lead sleds are very hard on stocks, and they can effect the point of impact. I won't hunt with hearing protection, so no brake.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So exactly which big game animals in Alberta require more than a 140-150 gr bullet out of a 280rem or 7mmremmag to kill cleanly?

Who singled those two ctdgs out? There is not one legal ctdge that will not kill any Big Game animal cleanly. Now, Pick any animal and plug in a variety of circumstances and we'll go from there.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Yep .. deader than the one I wounded that died a day later .

That's not deader, that's better, as in better shot placement.

.024 of an inch won't make up for a bad shot, I know because I've lost them with .308 caliber bullets and killed them with .284 bullets.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have never had an issue with recoil effecting my shooting, but many people do. I shot an unbraked 300RUM for several years, and shot sub 1/2 moa with it. And I will never resort to a lead sled or a brake. Lead sleds are very hard on stocks, and they can effect the point of impact. I won't hunt with hearing protection, so no brake.

They should not choose a rifle that they can not handle and that's just one reason the whole question of best all around caliber is bogus.
Because everyone is different.
And yes I will not shoot with a lead sled or hunt with hearing protection either.
However if anyone wanted to shoot a larger caliber I was pointing out that there are ways to reduce recoil.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

That's not deader, that's better, as in better shot placement.

.024 of an inch won't make up for a bad shot, I know because I've lost them with .308 caliber bullets and killed them with .284 bullets.

The DRT one was shot with a 30-06 . The one that died a day later was shot with a .243. Both were shot in the same place. Instant mortality and delayed mortality amount to the same thing ... Dead.

Dead is as Dead is. Only circumstance vary.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

The DRT one was shot with a 30-06 . The one that died a day later was shot with a .243. Both were shot in the same place. Instant mortality and delayed mortality amount to the same thing ... Dead.

Dead is as Dead is. Only circumstance vary.

You have to tell me, what part of an animal you can hit with a 30-06 projectile and have it DRT, and when hit in the exact same place with a 243 it can live for another 24hrs?

Were you using the same type of bullet in both cases?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You have to tell me, what part of an animal you can hit with a 30-06 projectile and have it DRT, and when hit in the exact same place with a 243 it can live for another 24hrs?

Were you using the same type of bullet in both cases?

A shoulder hit at 300 yds. with a 30-06 180 gr TTSX vs a .243 with a 110 TTSX should get my point across.
If it doesn't .. then I dunno.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Who singled those two ctdgs out? There is not one legal ctdge that will not kill any Big Game animal cleanly. Now, Pick any animal and plug in a variety of circumstances and we'll go from there.

So which shot on an elk moose or deer will a 30-06 with a 180gr bullet reliably reach the vital zone and kill the animal where a 140gr TTSX out of a 280rem or a 7mmremmag won't?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

A shoulder hit at 300 yds. with a 30-06 180 gr TTSX vs a .243 with a 110 TTSX should get my point across.
If it doesn't .. then I dunno.

Not to be difficult here, but I had a shoulder hit with a 165gr ttsx coming out of a 300wsm and that deer was still alive 24hrs later, you can find the full version of that story in the archives of the hunting section. So I think the difference in your outcomes were better shot placement rather that the caliber of the hole, I actually know it was the difference.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So which shot on an elk moose or deer will a 30-06 with a 180gr bullet reliably reach the vital zone and kill the animal where a 140gr TTSX out of a 280rem or a 7mmremmag won't?

Again, who was doing that comparison .. you or me ?