Using leaders with Hardbaits

[moosehunter21]

Using steel leaders with hard baits- does it effect the presentation and or number of fish you are going to catch? going after pike and walleye

[RavYak]

For pike doesn't make a difference imo. For walleye it might but I still use a wire leader if there are lots of pike around.

The worst thing about a steel leader is it kinking after the 1st fish. This kink will affect the action of your lures and will lose you more fish then just using a steel leader will.

That is why I only use titanium leaders. Much more expensive but you use good line and a leader will last you all year.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by RavYak

For pike doesn't make a difference imo. For walleye it might but I still use a wire leader if there are lots of pike around.

The worst thing about a steel leader is it kinking after the 1st fish. This kink will affect the action of your lures and will lose you more fish then just using a steel leader will.

That is why I only use titanium leaders. Much more expensive but you use good line and a leader will last you all year.

What about fluorocarbon leaders instead of titanium? Obviously they are not as durable but I would think you would get more strikes.

[FlyTheory]

However sometimes the kinks add some pretty sweet action to pike flies

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

What about fluorocarbon leaders instead of titanium? Obviously they are not as durable but I would think you would get more strikes.

For pike I think the difference is next to nothing and I haven't noticed a big difference with walleye either. I catch tons of fish on my titanium leaders so if I am missing out it can't be by that much. For walleye I use the 30 lb titanium leaders because of the nice small wire and snaps.

I do use fluorocarbon lighter line when using more finesse walleye tactics like jigging, spinning rigs, lindy rigs etc. You just won't see me using it for a 15 dollar crankbait.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

What about fluorocarbon leaders instead of titanium? Obviously they are not as durable but I would think you would get more strikes.

I switched from steel (hated the kinking) to titanium ( hated the damage to the fish if they rolled up in the leader as titanium is so thin and also found they frayed occasionally) to hand tied flourocarbon leaders using flourocarbon leader material for pike. In my opinion, flourocarbon is the way to go as a good 30 lb leader (for lighter lures) and 50 lb (for heavier lures) has not negatively impacted my catch rates for pike and I have found I do not get any kinking or noticable damage to the fish. I use a long leader, 2 to 3 feet, as I use braided line exclusively for pike and that stuff being so thin can really "cut" into a fish. I do check my leader periodically for knicks and if noticed I will snip and retie (another bonus of flouro) if I still have a satisfactory length left. If not, take snap and swivels off (another bonus) and tie a new leader. In 3 or 4 years of using flouro leaders, I have yet to go thru a roll of the flouro leader material.

For walleye, if I use a leader, it is a 30 lb or lighter flourocarbon leader but only when running a hard body lure like a jerk or crankbait. For the more finesse presentations I tie directly to a flourocarbon line which I tie onto my braided line or use a rod and reel spooled up with flourocarbon line.

As always, your mileage may vary compared to mine.

[dustinjoels]

I tied my first batch of fluorocarbon leaders this year. I went 80 lb with cross loc snaps. I love the fact that they don't kink like the metal leaders.

[EZM]

I am 100% fluorocarbon leader material for all my pike / walleye fishing and have never had a break off in 5-6 years and literally hundreds if not a few thousand pike. Embrace the technology that a quality fluorocarbon leader can provide for you.

For Pike - I use 80lb premium fluorocarbon leader material (specifically leader material which is different than line) and put some coast or cross lock snaps in place.

To me the advantages vs. steel / titanium are simple .....

1) Easy to tie up yourself to any length you want using any test strength you desire
2) Can use any snap/swivel combination on either end you desire
3) Virtually invisible
4) Supple and flexible
5) Bite proof
6) Durable with no kinking
7) Easier on the fish (they won't often cut a fish up compared to steel/titanium)
8) Easier on your hand (no fear in grabbing the leader with your hand and getting cut)

I love them - I will never go back to steel or titanium for freshwater fishing.

The biggest issue some people who say it doesn't work and they get break offs is ....

a) they don't know how to tie a knot
b) they are using fluorocarbon line (not leader material)
c) the fluoro isn't heavy enough

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by EZM

I am 100% fluorocarbon leader material for all my pike / walleye fishing and have never had a break off in 5-6 years and literally hundreds if not a few thousand pike. Embrace the technology that a quality fluorocarbon leader can provide for you.

For Pike - I use 80lb premium fluorocarbon leader material (specifically leader material which is different than line) and put some coast or cross lock snaps in place.

To me the advantages vs. steel / titanium are simple .....

1) Easy to tie up yourself to any length you want using any test strength you desire
2) Can use any snap/swivel combination on either end you desire
3) Virtually invisible
4) Supple and flexible
5) Bite proof
6) Durable with no kinking
7) Easier on the fish (they won't often cut a fish up compared to steel/titanium)
8) Easier on your hand (no fear in grabbing the leader with your hand and getting cut)

I love them - I will never go back to steel or titanium for freshwater fishing.

The biggest issue some people who say it doesn't work and they get break offs is ....

a) they don't know how to tie a knot
b) they are using fluorocarbon line (not leader material)
c) the fluoro isn't heavy enough

What's the difference between line and leader?

Sounds like I am definitely "c" I thought I was doing well with 25lbs. Looks like I will have to upgrade.

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I switched from steel (hated the kinking) to titanium ( hated the damage to the fish if they rolled up in the leader as titanium is so thin and also found they frayed occasionally) to hand tied flourocarbon leaders using flourocarbon leader material for pike. In my opinion, flourocarbon is the way to go as a good 30 lb leader (for lighter lures) and 50 lb (for heavier lures) has not negatively impacted my catch rates for pike and I have found I do not get any kinking or noticable damage to the fish. I use a long leader, 2 to 3 feet, as I use braided line exclusively for pike and that stuff being so thin can really "cut" into a fish. I do check my leader periodically for knicks and if noticed I will snip and retie (another bonus of flouro) if I still have a satisfactory length left. If not, take snap and swivels off (another bonus) and tie a new leader. In 3 or 4 years of using flouro leaders, I have yet to go thru a roll of the flouro leader material.

For walleye, if I use a leader, it is a 30 lb or lighter flourocarbon leader but only when running a hard body lure like a jerk or crankbait. For the more finesse presentations I tie directly to a flourocarbon line which I tie onto my braided line or use a rod and reel spooled up with flourocarbon line.

As always, your mileage may vary compared to mine.

X2 put together a little leader making kit. Make my own out of fluorocarbon 40lb I believe. They don't kink and I've landed several 20lb pike & 30lb lake trout and never had one fail. It's really nice being able o make them in the length you like from a regular 12" to a 50" for slip weight lake trout action!! Initial investment is cheap and it gives a guy something to do when fishing is slow.

[RavYak]

80 lb must be the way to go because 40 lb fluoro leader material is not heavy enough imo. Either that or seaguar fluoro leader is no good but I thought it was a pretty highly regarded manufacturer.

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by RavYak

80 lb must be the way to go because 40 lb fluoro leader material is not heavy enough imo. Either that or seaguar fluoro leader is no good but I thought it was a pretty highly regarded manufacturer.

checked my box. its 40lb. plenty. again never EVER had one fail. better presentation, zero kinks, and less harmful than titanium.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

What's the difference between line and leader?

Sounds like I am definitely "c" I thought I was doing well with 25lbs. Looks like I will have to upgrade.

That's a good question - and I read something about this a few years back .... here is the basic premise ....

Fluorocarbon is a material just like any polymer/plastic/nylon - the way it is manufactured or processed, and what additives they use, plays a big part in the material properties and characteristics.

The line is made to be far more clear, is far more supple, has greater tensile strength but does not have cut resistant properties comparable to the leader material.

The leader material is a little stiffer, much more cut resistant but is heavier and slightly thicker compared to line of the same test.

If you compare 40lb fluorocarbon line right next to 40lb fluorocarbon leader the difference is quite obvious.

The best comparison I can make ......It's kind of like comparing two different plastics really - one might be rigid and brittle, while the other may be more flexible and soft - they are both plastics .... but what they are made out of, using what process makes a big difference.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle

checked my box. its 40lb. plenty. again never EVER had one fail. better presentation, zero kinks, and less harmful than titanium.

Obviously our experiences differ.

For example I haven't noticed harmful effects due to titanium leaders themselves. I only use the 12 in ones and at worst they might get wrapped around the nose of a pike once and it usually causes no significant damage.

I find the damage is usually done by the braid which then wraps around the body of the fish and this can happen with either titanium, steel or a short fluoro leader. I use heavy braid(mainly because I don't want to lose lures) which helps with this issue but if you really want to avoid this then tie on a 3-4 ft fluoro leader before you tie your titanium leader on. I actually end up doing this regularly now but because I am lazy and use the same rod for multiple techniques/species and I don't like having to always retie on a fluoro leader when I want one.

For anyone that wants to try fluoro out 40 lb is the absolutely minimum I would consider. I personally would go to 60 or 80 to play things safer if I ever decide to do so again.

[neilsledder]

I switched to fluorocarbon leaders and won't go back to steel. I use 40# for most lakes around Edmonton, but switch to 60# ice fishing and lakes I think there's bigger pike in. I tried titanium leaders but they still kinked just took a bit longer!


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[millsboy79]

Picked up 50lb seaguar sts salmon fluoro leader today. Was the highest test they had. Will be retying my leaders today. Wish me luck

[Jigger]

What kind of knot do most of you guys use to tie flouro leader to braid? Im fairly new to flouro leaders, at first i thought nail knot but figured the
braid had a good chance of eventually cutting through the leader if that makes sense? Any suggestions?

[dustinjoels]

I've used the double uni knot with decent success

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by Jigger

What kind of knot do most of you guys use to tie flouro leader to braid? Im fairly new to flouro leaders, at first i thought nail knot but figured the
braid had a good chance of eventually cutting through the leader if that makes sense? Any suggestions?

If I remember correctly, I think I tried a nail knot and it actually didn't hold. I think it may have been mono though and not braid. I think a nail knot should be fine though. The leaders handle pike teeth so the braid should be fine. Worst case, you cut the leader and loose 1" off the end, if it does hold that is

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by Jigger

What kind of knot do most of you guys use to tie flouro leader to braid? Im fairly new to flouro leaders, at first i thought nail knot but figured the
braid had a good chance of eventually cutting through the leader if that makes sense? Any suggestions?

I recently asked the same question and was shown this knot by another member.

http://www.powerpro.com/publish/cont...ame_knot_.html

The reason this knot was recommended is that the tag end of both lines are pointing away from the eyes while casting.

So far so good.

[Jigger]

Thanks for the info fellas.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by Jigger

Thanks for the info fellas.

Tape your fingers ... braid will slice ya