Changes To Archery Mule Deer.

[packhuntr]

I have heard some things regarding the new changes to our mules and our archery hunts but dont know whats up for sure. Anyone know the particulars on this deal?

[gramps73]

From what I have heard it will be draw starting next season, no more general tag for mule buck..
IMO just shut it down to out of province and things will work them self out..

[H380]

Originally Posted by gramps73

From what I have heard it will be draw starting next season, no more general tag for mule buck..
IMO just shut it down to out of province and things will work them self out..

Sorry Gramps , that would be too simple .

[gramps73]

just saying, but i know what you mean..

[H380]

Maybe just a rumor but I heard that all outfitter mule tags have been pulled as a result of the new draw . May or may not be true , but I am willing to give up my general tag if that is correct .

[wbl170]

Outfitter tags pulled? I wish but highly doubt it.

[Martyn6]

allot of outfitter tags where pulled this year not just mule deer!

Originally Posted by gramps73

From what I have heard it will be draw starting next season, no more general tag for mule buck..
IMO just shut it down to out of province and things will work them self out..

A large number of WMUs are scheduled for draw but not all.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

A large number of WMUs are scheduled for draw but not all.

The pressure that's gonna create on those non draws is going to be scary.

I also heard that the draw will be one muley draw for bowhunters and rifle guys. For at least 2 years, until the Ibm contract is up. Then they may consider splitting the two, like the antelope draw.

This draw is just plain dumb!!!

Originally Posted by pottymouth

The pressure that's gonna create on those non draws is going to be scary.

I also heard that the draw will be one muley draw for bowhunters and rifle guys. For at least 2 years, until the Ibm contract is up. Then they may consider splitting the two, like the antelope draw.

This draw is just plain dumb!!!

Ya, no doubt surrounding general WMUs will quickly surpass the 15% minimum. I'm not sure a decision has been made on the draw type yet but I know ESRD recommended one draw as it is now.

[Huevos]

When I was a kid we had a 3 point rule on mule deer. If we are worried about numbers of deer, why not just start with some restrictions on what you can harvest? For starters, currently, I can shoot any mule deer with a bow, why?
Wouldn't it make more sense to leave it general season to collect all the revenue from all the guys who buy tags and change the animals to 4 point or better? Another option is to shorten the season. Maybe another is to limit landowner tags. As a land owner, why should I have the option of buying a mule buck tag every year I don't get drawn? Nice for me, but hardly fair. So many options, why a draw? Just a thought, but i am no biologist.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by Huevos

When I was a kid we had a 3 point rule on mule deer. If we are worried about numbers of deer, why not just start with some restrictions on what you can harvest? For starters, currently, I can shoot any mule deer with a bow, why?
Wouldn't it make more sense to leave it general season to collect all the revenue from all the guys who buy tags and change the animals to 4 point or better? Another option is to shorten the season. Maybe another is to limit landowner tags. As a land owner, why should I have the option of buying a mule buck tag every year I don't get drawn? Nice for me, but hardly fair. So many options, why a draw? Just a thought, but i am no biologist.

Very well said.

Remove access to mulie, moose, antelope, bighorn, and mountain goat from non residents.

Manage the landowner tags for trophy quality in regards to mule deer.

[ishootbambi]

i posted this a while back, and honestly, im stunned that there was so little response to it. ill copy and paste.....




For 2011, there were 58,924 completed surveys for all licence types, which was 26% of all licences purchased (222,957 in total).*

In regards specifically to the “General Mule Deer licence” (the licence used during the archery only season for antlered mule deer), 4,183 people responded to the survey for this licence type. There were a total of 14,501 licences sold, meaning 29% of hunters who purchased this licence responded to the survey.

Using the survey results and the actual harvest numbers, the estimated harvest for each WMU is determined. From these numbers and the response of hunters to the questions regarding the weapon used, the archery harvest is estimated. If the survey results have a low sample size, the results are taken with a grain of salt and their accuracy is questionable. For the purpose of determining the archery harvest and allocation of antlered mule deer harvest for bow hunters, SRD only looks at the number of antlered mule deer harvested by the General Mule Deer Licence during the archery only season. Bowhunters who harvested a mule deer under the authority of a Special Licence obtained in the draw process are not counted as part of the general mule deer harvest for this analysis.


. Data is for the 2011 hunting season and is for WMUs 108, 208 and 357. Harvest is only for bow hunter kills during the archery only season and does not take into account youth bow hunter harvest (which occurred in all zones). Estimated total harvest includes bow hunter harvest from General and Youth Licences, Special Licences (the draw) and Landowner Licences.


WMU Bowhunter
Respondent
Per WMU Estimated
Bowhunters Reported Antlered
MUDE Bhtr Harvest Est Bow hunter Harvest Est Total Harvest Est % Bow Hunter Harvest
108 64 222 14 49 157 31.2
208 58 201 10 35 85 41.2
357 54 187 6 21 66 31.8

In calculating the numbers (using the stats from WMU 108 as an example), the 64 bowhunters who responded on the game harvest survey who had a general mule deer tag is divided by the total of 4,183 people who responded (all bowhunters, and rifle hunters who had the general mule deer tag). This (1.53 % or .0153) is the actual percentage of hunters with this licence who bowhunted in WMU 108. This is then multiplied by the overall number of hunters who bought a general mule deer license (.0153 x 14501) to come up with the estimated number of bowhunters who bowhunted WMU 108 (222). To estimate the bowhunter harvest, the actual reported bowhunter harvest (14) is divided by the total bowhunter respondents (64) and this (.22 or 22%) is then multiplied by the estimated number of bowhunters (222 from calculation above) to get the estimated bowhunter harvest of 49 buck mule deer. This is then divided into the overall estimated harvest (includes bow hunter harvest from General and Youth Licences, Special Licences (the draw) and Landowner Licences)(49/157)(calculated using the same type of formulas) to determine the estimated bowhunter harvest (which is limited to 15% as per current policy – bowhunters account for app 15% of the overall hunting population).




now, as i said, this is a summary of the complete report that will be in the upcoming ABA newsletter. thanks to the ABA for allowing me to present the data early here to AO. for a full report, be sure to join the ABA to keep up to date on this and other important issues concerning archery hunting in alberta. if you are a bowhunter in this province, it really is in your best interest to belong to this organization to have your voice heard.


****edit*** the numbers in the chart didnt translate in chart form, so read that part closely to decipher the info.
__________________

[ishootbambi]

according to what i have been told, these are the wmus that will be on draw for 2013.....


For 2013, archers will need the draw to bowhunt mule deer in the archery season in the following WMUs – this is a direct result of the trend where bowhunters harvested more than our 15% share (according to the harvest surveys).

100 WMU Series- 104, 108, 110, 130, 132, 134, 138, 140 and 156

200 WMU Series- 206, 208, 210, 214, 216, 220, 221, 222, 224 and 226

300 WMU series – 300, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 308 314, 318, 320, 322, 324, 332, 337, 357, 358, 359 and 360

400 WMU Series – 400 and 402

500 WMU Series - 502, 504, 506, 509, 510, 521, 522, 523, 526 and 527

[killerbren]

I dont know if you guys got this in your email box about a week ago but this is from the alberta bowhunters association.



AGMAG Dec 5, 2012 Meeting Highlights



The following is a brief outline of the two proposals for regulation change for the 2013 hunting season that will affect bowhunters the most. All items were discussed by the stakeholders and ESRD senior people. If anyone would like to see the individual proposals in their entirety send me an email and I will forward them to you – some are very lengthy.


Antlered mule deer archery to draw – this issue has been on the horizon for several years and we have been attending various stakeholder/ESRD meetings during that time. We have distributed lots of information to the ABA membership, to bowhunters in general to allow them to better understand the information out there, the harvest survey data collection system, the data itself, the ramifications if this proposal did happen. We have gotten lots of feedback and have brought that feedback to ESRD people and to the other stakeholders.

For 2013, archers will need the draw to bowhunt mule deer in the archery season in the following WMUs – this is a direct result of the trend where bowhunters harvested more than our 15% share (according to the harvest surveys).

100 WMU Series- 104, 108, 110, 130, 132, 134, 138, 140 and 156

200 WMU Series- 206, 208, 210, 214, 216, 220, 221, 222, 224 and 226

300 WMU series – 300, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 308 314, 318, 320, 322, 324, 332, 337, 357, 358, 359 and 360

400 WMU Series – 400 and 402

500 WMU Series - 502, 504, 506, 509, 510, 521, 522, 523, 526 and 527



Separate archery draw regime – we presented strong arguments to implement a separate archery draw for antlered mule deer (and broaden that to other species/WMUs where you now need a draw to bowhunt them in archery seasons). We have preliminary support from some stakeholders for this idea. The current proposal suggests bowhunters will enter the general draw pool. The idea for a separate draw cannot happen for two years as the current draw system contract is almost up and tenders have been sent to two companies to rework/update the system.

ALL outfitter archery non-res allocations for antlered mule deer in these affected WMUs have been pulled. Can use one of their general mule deer allocations.

Landowner tags for antlered mule deer has seen lots of discussions and there is lots of concern over this – more discussion will take place. Currently there is no way to determine the actual harvest of landowners on this tag (which is in effect a general tag). Could possibly add a box on the online harvest survey.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

For 2013, archers will need the draw to bowhunt mule deer in the archery season in the following WMUs – this is a direct result of the trend where bowhunters harvested more than our 15% share (according to the harvest surveys).

100 WMU Series- 104, 108, 110, 130, 132, 134, 138, 140 and 156

200 WMU Series- 206, 208, 210, 214, 216, 220, 221, 222, 224 and 226

300 WMU series – 300, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 308 314, 318, 320, 322, 324, 332, 337, 357, 358, 359 and 360

400 WMU Series – 400 and 402

500 WMU Series - 502, 504, 506, 509, 510, 521, 522, 523, 526 and 527

I have a really hard time believing that the archery harvest exceeded 15% in ALL those WMU's. Not saying I don't believe it, just having a really hard time making myself believe it.

[C Taylor]

There wasn't a problem when srd hired clubs to phone everyone and get results. Now this emailing info I'm sceptical of. I'm thinking it's a lot of. If I get one brag about it but if I don't I don't want to talk about it. Regardless to weather the surveys right or wrong I'm not a fan of being in the same draw as rifle. I have no problem on how antelope are set up an if they can't do the same for mule deer then leave it alone until they can.

[Icefisher2885]

Looks like the SE zones are going to get swarmed with guys this year. That's swell. I don't get this half ***** thinking - if you're going to put mules on draw then put them on draw. Now zones around here that were well within the harvest alotment will have half the archers from lethbridge west crammed into em. Bowhunting is low impact ane ill stamd by that to the end, but putting 10x the guys into 1 area is just flat out stupid. This entire operation has been a joke from the start, and the stats and method that Bambi posted are just icing on the cake. Who in gods name is actually being paid to produce drivel like that? At least hire someone who knows how to properly run stats.

[bowtech3006]

Originally Posted by albertadave

I have a really hard time believing that the archery harvest exceeded 15% in ALL those WMU's. Not saying I don't believe it, just having a really hard time making myself believe it.

'estimated 15%' that leaves room for HUGE errors. I would have liked to see all zones province wide on a separate draw for archery only. I bowhunt mules every year and that's my opinion. I can't wait to see the estimated harvests from the zones still under a general tag. I'm betting there going to exceed 15% and more draws as a result. We need more f&w presence during rifle season to reduce the bucks killed in draw zones on general, or no tag. If there was no general tag the 'I shot it in wmu ***' would no longer be a valid excuse. IMO scrap all general tags for md, cut outfitters to archery only & put more officers on the backroads. Now let's all sing kumbaya!

[ASAT1]

Originally Posted by Huevos

When I was a kid we had a 3 point rule on mule deer. If we are worried about numbers of deer, why not just start with some restrictions on what you can harvest? For starters, currently, I can shoot any mule deer with a bow, why?
Wouldn't it make more sense to leave it general season to collect all the revenue from all the guys who buy tags and change the animals to 4 point or better? Another option is to shorten the season. Maybe another is to limit landowner tags. As a land owner, why should I have the option of buying a mule buck tag every year I don't get drawn? Nice for me, but hardly fair. So many options, why a draw? Just a thought, but i am no biologist.

I'll have to agree with you 100% ,make it a 3 or 4 pt rule if it's 4 pt then at least there's a better chance of more mature bucks being harvested, I believe in BC it's a 4 pt rule ,correct me if I'm wrong, and some of the bucks there that I've seen taken there are beauties,and I know that there are a ton of awesome bucks taken this year in Alberta, but just imagine if there was a 4 pt rule.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by H380

Maybe just a rumor but I heard that all outfitter mule tags have been pulled as a result of the new draw . May or may not be true , but I am willing to give up my general tag if that is correct .

not true at all. 2014 will implement a handful of zones go on draw. By 2015 province wide. Reliable source. Sorry, outfitters will not be affected.

[motox208]

What a bunch of bs being spewed from the butthole of our government

[Fer-Tak-Er]

I seen this happen in WMU's west of Caroline many years ago. It used to be a general antlered moose for archery only. The problem was, when someone calls you, or you get an e-mail asking you if and when you shot something. So many hunters that I know Brag,Brag,Brag. Even if they didn't shoot something. Are they going to belittle themselves? I personally know many that have Bull****ed the system. And now with these "I" phones. Everyone knows what you shot.

[Deer Hunter]

IIRC wmu138 has more outfitter and landowner tags than it did resident draws for antlered mule deer. Now residents need to draw there to bowhunt so it's nice to know what priorities residents have in this province.

Any zone with a very small resident draw population is at risk to go over 15% on the bowhunting side. What is with the 15% number anyways?? Why is it written in stone? And of course it isn't really known what percentage is harvested because the data is poor.

Another sad day for resident hunters. Almost starting to get used to it now.

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by Huevos

When I was a kid we had a 3 point rule on mule deer. If we are worried about numbers of deer, why not just start with some restrictions on what you can harvest? For starters, currently, I can shoot any mule deer with a bow, why?
Wouldn't it make more sense to leave it general season to collect all the revenue from all the guys who buy tags and change the animals to 4 point or better? Another option is to shorten the season. Maybe another is to limit landowner tags. As a land owner, why should I have the option of buying a mule buck tag every year I don't get drawn? Nice for me, but hardly fair. So many options, why a draw? Just a thought, but i am no biologist.

By shooting only 4 pointers, the trophy quality goes down.
Make landowner tags antlerless only.
SHUTDOWN non-resident tags for draw species.

[deadeye]

Make landowner tags antlerless only.
SHUTDOWN non-resident tags for draw species.
x2

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i posted this a while back, and honestly, im stunned that there was so little response to it. _____

I've heard a few people in places of influence say they were shocked at how little resistance there was to this change. People need to start speaking up through membership in groups like the ABA in this instance and by getting involved personally by writing letters and making phone calls. While this board is a great resource, it seems many people's outrage never leaves here.

[fast_pass88]

Originally Posted by missingtwo

By shooting only 4 pointers, the trophy quality goes down.
Make landowner tags antlerless only.
SHUTDOWN non-resident tags for draw species.

Sheep is a general tag in lots of zones, with horn restriction rules. I've read a fair bit and there's no facts suggesting that it diminishes trophy quality....I can't see why it'd be any different for mule deer....if you believe trophy hunting deceases trophy quality then were talking about a different issue.
I agree with you about the land owner tags!
I was chasing some mulies this fall and the landowner said there's a real mature one in there and he was thinking of picking up a landowner tag. I waited 5yrs to hunt this zone! And he's just gonna walk in and go pick up a tag! Grrr....

[WildCanuck]

agreed to the above... it's been a pet peeve of mine for years. Landowners should be antlerless, plain and simple.

WildCanuck

[jr_80]

I agree with you about the land owner tags!
I was chasing some mulies this fall and the landowner said there's a real mature one in there and he was thinking of picking up a landowner tag. I waited 5yrs to hunt this zone! And he's just gonna walk in and go pick up a tag! Grrr....[/QUOTE]

Nothing is stopping you from buying some land and doing the same. As a land owner I apply on the draw and have never purchased a land owners tag. I could, but I choose not to. My choice as a landowner. Otherwise sit in whatever city you live in and go on the forum and whine and cry about opportunities gained or lost on private land.