crossbow season?

Sharpstick...good points, but that is not what this is about. Why do people want to use crossbows in the archery season?

It is perceived that crossbows are more easily mastered...(than bows).

If given the opportunity, people will react like flowing water.............they will take the path of least resistance (or least effort).

Crossbow enthuisiasts (or wannabees) are just like any other "special interest group" who want something. They want what you already have. They want you to tolerate them. They want to get married to other crossbow shooters. They want to wear camo turbans. They want to be able to hunt with their crossbows at night. Right.....I am exagerating somewhat lol. But they want part of the pie. There is only one pie, and it keeps getting cut into smaller or illogical pieces in order for everyone to be accepted. People have rights (he said sarcastically lol).

Crossbow enthuisiasts (or wannabees) are just like any other "special interest group" who want something. They want what you already have. They want you to tolerate them. They want to get married to other crossbow shooters. They want to wear camo turbans. They want to be able to hunt with their crossbows at night. Right.....I am exagerating somewhat lol. But they want part of the pie. There is only one pie, and it keeps getting cut into smaller or illogical pieces in order for everyone to be accepted. People have rights (he said sarcastically lol).

Hmmm...I think I remember another special interest group getting rights...I think they were called archery hunters. There wasn't always an archery season and the general season got cut into illogical pieces. By your logic we should just go back to one hunting season for all weapons. If you want to talk special interest group, about 5% of the licenced bow hunters in Alberta are archery only hunters. The remainder are multi-weapon hunters.

Sharpstick....the crossbow would allow a great number of people that are unable to shoot vertical bows for one physical reason or another to enjoy some of the great opportunities afforded archers and it would also introduce new people into a declining sport...

I have trouble, being a hunter dedicated to increasing participation in the sport, even though it reduces my opportunities and increases my draw times, having much tolerance for a special interest group that is so protectionist of their opportunities even though their participants are declining. Give me some other arguements why crossbows should not be included in archery season and I'll listen and may even be convinced but if the best you can do is that it will get more people in the field and affect your wait for a draw tag, I say boo...freaking...hoo.

For the record, I am a vertical bow hunter too and think something needs to be done to encourage more hunters to spend more days in the field during archery season. I'd happily wait another year or two for special archery permits if it meant we had more hunters in the field.

If you want to talk special interest group, about 5% of the licenced bow hunters in Alberta are archery only hunters

Now I'll switch and say we have to protect existing minority rights lol.

Sharpstick....the crossbow would allow a great number of people that are unable to shoot vertical bows for one physical reason or another to enjoy some of the great opportunities afforded archers

There already is a provision for disabled hunters to use a crossbow during the archery season.

Give me some other arguements why crossbows should not be included in archery season and I'll listen and may even be convinced but if the best you can do is that it will get more people in the field and affect your wait for a draw tag, I say boo...freaking...hoo.

I'm concerned that we need more hunters in the field (as you are). However, opening up the archery season to crossbows IS NOT A REMEDY for increasing more hunter numbers. Gun hunters will pick up a crossbow and use it but it sure as heck will not create more raw hunter numbers. You'll have to prove that one to me somehow (good luck on that).

For the record, I am a vertical bow hunter too and think something needs to be done to encourage more hunters to spend more days in the field during archery season. I'd happily wait another year or two for special archery permits if it meant we had more hunters in the field.

Why is it a concern that we need to encourage more hunters to spend more days in the field during the archery season? Archery isn't for everbody and thats why it attracts the low percentage. The concern should more properly be focused on recruiting more hunters period and let them decide if they want to kill animals with arrows or lead. More people in the field with bows and arrows is a plus for hunting as much as it is for more hunters in the field with rifles/shotguns/muzzleloaders.

Now isn't thiis better than a bunch of good ole boys all agreeing with each other that crossbows should be included in the archery season?

More archers are welcome in the archery season!!! Get out there!!! Pick up a bow, fling some arrows and enjoy the sport of archery!!!

Why is it a concern that we need to encourage more hunters to spend more days in the field during the archery season? Archery isn't for everbody and thats why it attracts the low percentage. The concern should more properly be focused on recruiting more hunters period and let them decide if they want to kill animals with arrows or lead. More people in the field with bows and arrows is a plus for hunting as much as it is for more hunters in the field with rifles/shotguns/muzzleloaders.

I'm not sure how your statement defends your thoughts that archery season is a sacred cow that should be protected. You make just as good of arguement to include crossbows to increase recruitment. I remember well the hue and cry by the real archers when compound bows were included as fair archery equipment. Their low numbers didn't stop the bus from rolling over them and today's archers had better open their eyes just a wee bit right now. You hear something?
You want to think hard what it means that 95% of all bow hunters also rifle hunt.

I learned many years ago how to shoot a bow.

I've hunted with rifles and shotguns.

I've learned the skills and techniques it takes to get close.

I've brought others into the sport and defended or explained hunting to those who do not understand.

I don't consider myself a "wannabe".

Last year I decided to take a break from big game hunting because it was not giving me the enjoyment that it had for so many years. I think I just figured out why.

It is a dying art. Those who hunted for food, or to try and keep alive a connection with nature are quickly vanishing only to be replaced by groups who think they have some kind of inalienable right to use animals and the outdoors for their exclusive sport.

So just keep on standing in that manger with your lip out defending your "right" and denying others, maybe your grandchildern can proudly point to your picture and say that was my grandpa, he was the last true bowhunter, back when that sort of thing was allowed.

There already is a provision for disabled hunters to use a crossbow during the archery season.

Pappy, again you speak about something you know nothing of and I don't blame you as this is a common misconception in the archery community, due largely to them taking the ostrich approach to learning about crossbows...sticking their heads in the sand. Very few people can get a disabled crossbow permit. Take the time to read the act and you'll see that you must be missing a limb to qualify. So those countless people that are too old, have shoulder, elbow or wrist injuries that prevent them from drawing a vertical bow are excluded.

I can't see how getting the existing hunters spending more days in the field is a bad thing./ It makes our sport stronger. I think the biggest worry the ABA has is not a rush of new hunters but the fact that 95% of their own members are multi-weapon hunters and are the most likely to try the crossbow......litterally gutting their organization. I don't see the huge influx of rifle hunters taking up the bow that the ABA states (but it does make for great fear mongering)...but I sure do see crossbow hunters coming from within their own ranks and definiately the majority would come from within the ranks of existing bow hunters in this province.

Sheephunter,

I agree with much of what you are saying but I don't think the overall drop in participation of the archery season is as severe as some people think. I don't have a lot of facts to back this up but I did a quick check of the Antelope archery draw stats, and in 2001 there was 1440 total applicants for the Antelope Archery draw and in 2006 there was 3010 total applicants for the draw. The same WMUs were open for both draws. I know its only one stat, but its the only one I checked and it certainly doesn't show a huge decline in archery season interest.

Look at the number of "bowhunting permits" sold in the past 5 years chet...that is the only number that reflects the actual number of bowhunters in the province. Every bowhunter must purchase one.

I personally know 4 dudes who have taken up the bow to extend their season. One of them actually practices in the off season. Considering that we cannot legislate ethics or morals, perhaps if the other three hunters had access to crossbows their likely hood of making kill shots would increase. Also considering the number of deer that are car killed every year in 212 adding crossbows into the mix would certainly help with management in that area. Then again I think their should be a rifle season and a sluggun/primitive season.

Sheephunter,

Where can I find that info?

Thanks,
Chet

The ABA supplied me with the numbers chet...I'll try to look them up and post them but I'm certain a quick call to SRD in Edmonton would get them for you.

Pappy, again you speak about something you know nothing of and I don't blame you as this is a common misconception in the archery community, due largely to them taking the ostrich approach to learning about crossbows...sticking their heads in the sand. Very few people can get a disabled crossbow permit. Take the time to read the act and you'll see that you must be missing a limb to qualify. So those countless people that are too old, have shoulder, elbow or wrist injuries that prevent them from drawing a vertical bow are excluded.

Don't label me, for you know not of what you speak. I use a bow to hunt with 99.9% of the time and have been doing so for twenty-five years. You shouldn't tell me what I know or what I do not know. I intimately know the regulations concerning the use of a crossbow for persons who are permanently disabled. Believe me, I once had a crossbow license in this province but I never used it. I'll scan it and email it to you should you want to see it. You know, at some point a person must expect that they cannot do the things they once could. Come the day I am infirm or just plain unable to do the things I once could.....I'll reminisce about days gone by. I won't be propped into a blind while someone else cocks my crossbow, struggle to hold it and try to shoot it accurately. Your right though, the crossbow ruling for disabled persons is a joke. There should be no exception for using a crossbow whatsoever. Good luck on your quest.

can't see how getting the existing hunters spending more days in the field is a bad thing

Who thinks otherwise? Get a bow and go hunting!!!

I think the biggest worry the ABA has is not a rush of new hunters but the fact that 95% of their own members are multi-weapon hunters and are the most likely to try the crossbow......litterally gutting their organization.

Gutting their own organization lol........pure speculation/fantasy.

I didn't mean any disrespect pappy but you obviously haven't read the Wildlife Act in regards to crossbows and disability permits if you made the statement you made.....so you don't know of what you speak.

Your case is not strengthened by assuming what I have read and what I have not. I said I knew what I was talking about. However, if you disagree on that so be it.....it's not the truth however.

You are too old to bow hunt any more so then just don't hunt is what you are saying....Nice! You are too crippled to bow hunt so don't....really nice!

I was speaking of myself. This is a red herring....there are not large numbers of crippled hunters wanting to hunt. However, to every one of them, I wish them all well. Happy hunting!

But, the one thing I do know is that this protectionist attitude is sickening and you just raised the bar on that one with your statements about disabled people.

My statements about disabled people? You keep inventing things that I have never said, nor implied about any particular disability or person.

An argument is only as good as the facts. Emotion is a good string to pull but it fails to strengthen or give weight to an argument.

Thanks for clarifying that Pappy...I thought when you said that there was already a provision for disabled people that you were responding to my comments to sharpstick as you quoted them but apparently you weren't but you can understand my confusion. I wasn't aware that you were against all disabled people having special permits. Thanks for clarifying that as well. But the fact remains that many disabled people that cannot draw a vertical bow are excluded from getting a special crossbow permit and there is no arguing with that...especially with you being so initimate with the Wildlife Act.

How do you know there are not large numbers of disabled hunters wanting to bow hunt? I can name several just from my circle of friends. And that my friend is a fact!!!!!!

My statements about disabled people? You keep inventing things that I have never said, nor implied about any particular disability or person.

I invented nothing pappy. You said that no one should get a special crossbow permit. I took that to mean that you wanted to see disabled people excluded from participating in bow hunting seasons with a crossbow. Am I wrong??????????

I repeat...you raised the bar on the protectionist attitude displayed by many bowhunters with that statement.

Come the day I am infirm or just plain unable to do the things I once could.....I'll reminisce about days gone by. I won't be propped into a blind while someone else cocks my crossbow, struggle to hold it and try to shoot it accurately.

Speaking for yourself is fine pappy but I guess if there are others that would still like to get out and enjoy this great heritage we call hunting, I for one would like to see them have that opportunity.

Don't label me, for you know not of what you speak. I use a bow to hunt with 99.9% of the time and have been doing so for twenty-five years. You shouldn't tell me what I know or what I do not know.

I didn't mean any disrespect pappy but you obviously haven't read the Wildlife Act in regards to crossbows and disability permits if you made the statement you made.....so you don't know of what you speak. Certainly local F&W have given out permits to folks that didn't qualify under the Wildlife Act and I have no doubt you got one but these permits are not handed out with any uniformity and if you read the Wildlife Act, very few disabled Albertans qualify and many very disabled people are unable to get one. But since you figure no one should qualify, I guess it's a moot point. I guess you are against any disabled people trying to participate in activities normally reserved for the healthy or is it just activities that affect you personally? Should blind people be in the workplace? Should people in wheelchairs have access to public buildings? Should mentally handicapped people have special training to help them fit in to normal society?

Your right though, the crossbow ruling for disabled persons is a joke. There should be no exception for using a crossbow whatsoever.

I must say that that statement epitomizes the protectionist attitude of many bowhunters but it sickens me. You are too old to bow hunt any more so then just don't hunt is what you are saying....Nice! You are too crippled to bow hunt so don't....really nice!

Gutting their own organization lol........pure speculation/fantasy.

As is the influx of 15,000 new bowhunters into the system if crossbows are permitted in archery season.

The funny thing about all this is that I'm not even 100% certain of my view on crossbows in archery season and yes I hunt extensively with a vertical bow. But, the one thing I do know is that this protectionist attitude is sickening and you just raised the bar on that one with your statements about disabled people.

I don't know if it has been covered already but I found this quote by sheephunter and it has always puzzled me every time this topic comes up that someone makes this same statement

I don't think they are worried about being included in archery season...they just want an opportunity to hunt

Crossbow hunters have an opportunity to hunt, just like every other hunter out there has an opportunity to hunt. From Nov. 1 to Nov. 31 in my area of the province anyone with a legal tag can hunt with the weapon of their choice.

Crossbow hunters have an opportunity to hunt, just like every other hunter out there has an opportunity to hunt. From Nov. 1 to Nov. 31 in my area of the province anyone with a legal tag can hunt with the weapon of their choice.

Including archers. So according to you bow hunters don't deserve a special season?

No question about that shooter and undoubtedly many take advantage of those seasons and hence the interest in crossbows. Unfortunately, they are excluded from many of the opportunities afforded archery hunters, especially hunting in the archery-only zones even though they use a weapon with the same capabilities as a vertical bow.

If it were up to me to make the rules I would set a primitive weapons season along with clearcut definitions of what makes a "primitive weapon" based on max. velocities of arrows and lead balls and other characteristics of the weapons. Sabots and magnifying sighting devices would not classify as "primitive".

sheep you are confusing me.
you start off saying they should allow crossbows in archery seasons because they are less accurate, heavier...etc, now you want them in archery seasons for disabled that can't get the permit to use a crossbow. Maybe you should be proposing updating who will qualify for a disabled permit.(which I agree with)
You and 209 seem to have a hate on for the ABA, which is an organization that fights for conservation, bowhunting rights, bowhunter education etc.etc. all in the name of hunting and archery. Is this not what a club is suppose to do?
They do not run down other forms of hunting like you guys, just looking out for their members interests!
Bowhunter numbers are not declining and as I said the ABA numbers were up!( I think about 25% this year!)

Again sheep why would you want to use a less accurate bulkier weapon when you already can legally use a bow in the archery seasons, and your crossgun in any rifle season with the appropriate tags??

Any primitive weapons season I set up would also be subject to all draw restrictions. An interesting experiment would be to do away with the general season for archery in draw zones. In my area I would be willing to bet you would lose 70% of your archery hunters.

I agree shooter, it would also result in better game management and improve the quality of the hunt!
I feel it is not far away anyway! moose is already there and mule deer is next!

Any primitive weapons season I set up would also be subject to all draw restrictions. An interesting experiment would be to do away with the general season for archery in draw zones. In my area I would be willing to bet you would lose 70% of your archery hunters.

Bingo! This is exactly what the ABA fears, reduced hunting opportunities if the archery season becomes to popular.

If a primitive weapons season were to become too popular and successful it would not be only the archery hunters who would have to contend with reduced hunting opportunities. Draw quotas are set by hunter harvest numbers. Draw percentages are a factor of harvest numbers vs application numbers. If application numbers go up and increased harvest drivew quotas down you can see where the average rifle shooter waiting 3 years to get drawn for a Mule buck is going to get the shaft.

You and 209 seem to have a hate on for the ABA,

Sharpstick, I don't know who you are and I'm guessing you don't know nor care who I am. That is fine with me. What isn't fine with me is you misstating facts. I do not now nor ever have hated nor stated a dislike for the ABA and I don't appreciate you saying differently. I have said that their behavior has been short sited and surprising to me but I have no wish to see the organization go away. We clear sharpstick?

Hit there, I have been watching this forum for a few months now. I am from Ontario and have recently married an ex albertan and thought I would see what I could learn about hunting out there as I would like to take advantage of my new family connections and go hunting out there some time. It is absolutely beautiful country and I am a little jealous of all the land and animals and lack of sprawl like we have here in Southern Ontario.

Anyways I couldn't resist weighing in on this topic. In Ontario Crossbows are treated exactly the same as compounds and long bows for hunting purposes. I was surprised to learn that that is not so in Alberta. I have been bow hunting for over 12 years. My first year out I borrowed a friends compound bow that he no longer used. I got it about three months before the season started and practiced just about every day. I got to were I was pretty good with it, it was a pretty old bow, with none of the cool features of today’s but I was quite confident with it. September rolled around and I went to University, a month spent without an opportunity to shoot more than once or twice, deer season came and I missed two does on my first night, I missed them clean, because of my inexperience with bowhunting I just kept shooting and I shot all 6 of my arrows before I gave up (now I know that I was lucky to have missed and should have stopped before I wounded something). I have never hunted with a compound since, I went out and bought an Excalibur crossbow which is made right here in southern Ontario and have never looked back.

The number one advantage I see to a crossbow is that I can spend my time hunting rather than target shooting. I now live in the suburbs and can't shoot in my backyard, when I go back to the farm on the weekends I grab the crossbow and head out, I always shoot a number of arrows at the beginning of the season and make sure things are still working throughout, but the practice time is significantly reduced, also I can use the time when I am not bow hunting to go goose hunting and duck hunting. Another major advantage is reduced costs, since I live in the burbs if I had to use a compound I would have to join the local archery club which would cost a few hundred dollars a year. This may have something to do with resistance to crossbows in Alberta, I don’t see many crossbow hunters joining a bow club, they just don’t need that much practice time, but I am not there and don’t know. That and I think it is similar to someone who has exclusive hunting access on a great property, they are never to happy with someone new getting permission, crossbows would almost certainly increase the number of bowhunters. Although you can currently use a crossbow during the rifle season I doubt many people would buy a bow to use only during a time of year when they were allowed to rifle hunt, I also think the idea of a separate crossbow season is strange.

I think one of you said it best earlier when he stated that the challenge of hunting should be getting close to the animal and not in making the shot, I do everything I can to make the actual shot as easy and as high a percentage as possible. I have never shot a deer more than 20 yards away and I don’t feel a crossbow increases your range. I personally believe the advantages to each balance out and I feel that I am just as good a hunter as any compound hunter, I just require less practice time, I like to hunt much better than target shoot.

So good luck with the debate.
Dave

Hi Dave it is nice to hear your thoughts on the subject. Not everyone here realizes that Alberta is one of the last jurisdictions to reclassify crossbows. The world hasn't ended in any of the states/provinces that allow crossbows and it won't end here when the change occurs.

sheep you are confusing me.

Sorry sharpstick...didn't mean to do that. I'll try to straighten out the confusion but one problem I find with people on these sites is that they try to read a lot into posts so please avoid doing that and I think I can make things pretty clear.

you start off saying they should allow crossbows in archery seasons because they are less accurate, heavier...etc, now you want them in archery seasons for disabled that can't get the permit to use a crossbow. Maybe you should be proposing updating who will qualify for a disabled permit.(which I agree with)

Ah, you are reading to much into what I said as I never said any of that. In fact I've never said crossbows should be allowed in archery season. I've just presented some arguements as to why they may fit. I think they may fit because they are similar in performance to vertical bows and that it would allow many disabled people that are cuurrently not able to hunt archery seasons to partake but also it would get hunters spending more days in the field and likely increase hunter numbers a small bit as well. Those are things I support. It may also help with some of the management issues in WMUs where archery hunters are currently unable to meet harvest targets.

You and 209 seem to have a hate on for the ABA, which is an organization that fights for conservation, bowhunting rights, bowhunter education etc.etc. all in the name of hunting and archery. Is this not what a club is suppose to do?

I'm not certain where you got the impression that I hate the ABA. The truth is I have a ton of respect for this organization and have many time heralded their accomplishments and goals. I do take exception to the elitist/protectionist stance they are portraying on the crossbow issue. I think it portrays them in a very poor light and I've had very lengthy conversations with their president, Brent Watson over the issue. I think all the reasons you cited for supporting the ABA are excellent ones and ones that have encouraged me to support them but I think publically stating that you don't want something to happen because it wil increase the number of hunters in the field is counterproducyive to everything they stand for. Certainly there mjay be other arguements for not including crossbows in archery season and I'd love to hear them but because it will affect "ME" is not a valid one when on the surface it appears to be good for all hunters.

Again sheep why would you want to use a less accurate bulkier weapon when you already can legally use a bow in the archery seasons, and your crossgun in any rifle season with the appropriate tags??

I think I've stated those reasons a number of times in this thread and above so I don't really need to see the reason to do it again. You seem to be hung up on the less accurate component of the crossbow. This is only at very elite 3D levels where the compound bows are slightly more accurate but in the hands of the average but well practiced hunter they are both equally accurate.

Bowhunter numbers are not declining and as I said the ABA numbers were up!( I think about 25% this year!)

I don't recall saying anything about ABA numbers being up or down but bowhunter numbers in this province are down...that's a fact. Every bowhunter has to buy a bowhunting permit in this province to bowhunt and the sale of those permits is down. The ABA has even been publically stating that and a quick call to SRD will confirm it.

I hope this cleared up the confusion.

So from what i read will they allow crossbows in the archery season or will they leave it as is .I cant see where it would hurt the process just me i guess .

I do know it is you rich(209), I am not looking for a fight just do not agree with crossguns in archery seasons. Ask anyone from the provinces that allow crossbows in archery seasons, or BC that has very limited archery seasons, they all would love to have what alberta has!
Crossbows in the bowzones will not increase harvest #s, Its not that archers can't kill does, they just don't do it! (same as rifle zones)Secondly it is more not being able to get permission, than the weapon used!

As far as deer numbers in the edmonton bow zone they are down and people numbers are up! (at least where I live)
I also do not see how allowing crossbows will increase hunter #'s, these people already hunt with either bow or gun, or crossbow in the legal season already in place, allowing crossguns into archery seasons will not bring out a bunch of new hunters!

I guess I can put a comparison to flyfishing, bowhunting is like no bait, crossbow is like using worms! Make sense!!
No way is better than the other just do it where it is legal!