metis info

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Because somehow certain people rights to practice “traditions” trumps everyones right to be equal.

LC

What do you mean their right to practice tradition? Are you telling me that if I was to witness an animal being harvested under the harvest right that I will be witness to a traditional hunt? That I would love to see and would bring my entire family to see and learn from the expirience, I’m not being sarcastic about that either.

Blasting a moose out the window of your truck isn’t what was intended when these harvest rights were given out. Access to grocery stores was very limited and I’m sure was extremely limited for the natives back then.

I would love for someone to correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me that harvest rights today are merely lip service to sooth hurt feelings, like a parent giving a child candy to stop them from whining. The parent knows that the candy is no good for the child but just doesn’t want to deal with the whining.

I think a petition should be started demanding that traditional harvest rights not be altered or abused and only be enacted during a traditional ceremony. This way it’s fair to all people. The natives will still be able to have their traditional hunts and harvest rights and it will allow our conservation efforts to not be in vane.

[boah]

It is not racism. If it was, ALL Métis would have harvesting rights. There is a line by Red Deer that divides the Métis rights. There is inequality, but not racism.

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

With this kind of thing happening, I am almost for selling off all public land, so at least these people require permission to access it. That may be the only way we have to control the harvest.

Seriously? If you can't have it, nobody can? I am curious how many pages of straight whining and pouting we can get to.
I am a Treaty Indian and have never harvested an animal under my treaty rights, only with a license and tag but according to this forum, I should have killed 100 elk/moose/deer/sheep/caribou/bison this winter already!

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Chief16

Seriously? If you can't have it, nobody can? I am curious how many pages of straight whining and pouting we can get to.
I am a Treaty Indian and have never harvested an animal under my treaty rights, only with a license and tag but according to this forum, I should have killed 100 elk/moose/deer/sheep/caribou/bison this winter already!

I understand what elkhunter is saying and it’s not “if I can’t have it nobody can” he’s saying everyone would have an equal opportunity to hunt the land.

Another thing, it’s not the entire forum who thinks every Treaty Indian has killed 100 elk/moose/deer/sheep/caribou/bison this winter, but how many does it take to abuse the system before there will be a need for change?

You hunt under an Alberta hunting license, and yet you are still able to identify as a Treaty Indian, further proving my point that harvest rights are not needed in 2019 for any reason.

Trust me, this metis harvest rights is a huge mistake that will have an impact on the natural resources for both white man and Treaty Indians alike. I know this for fact as I’ve got a lot of metis friends and they are chomping at the bit to use their “rights”. Just wait and see one year from today how many metis harvesters are in Alberta, it’ll be shocking. Blond hair, red hair, brown hair, freckle faced harvesters across the province.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Chief16

Seriously? If you can't have it, nobody can? I am curious how many pages of straight whining and pouting we can get to.
I am a Treaty Indian and have never harvested an animal under my treaty rights, only with a license and tag but according to this forum, I should have killed 100 elk/moose/deer/sheep/caribou/bison this winter already!

You obviously aren't capable of comprehending what I posted, so I will explain it. As it is, it's a free for all on public lands, with no seasons or limits on how many animals can be killed by unregulated hunters. No limits or seasons for some people means that the game population can't be regulated. At least if the land was private, the landowners could regulate access , and at least have some control over the harvest. And making the land private, doesn't mean that nobody can hunt it, 90% of the land that I hunt is private land.

[R3illy]

kurt you make me LOL. Problem with most of the posters here is that your arguements start from a place that has pre determined first nations(metis) shouldnt have their rights.

You've already decided it's not fair and then determine that it must be changed to suit your narrow vision of what you deem is acceptable.

Does this not sound familiar??

Sounds like everything first nations have gone on in the last 100 years. Through history they've already has their land taken, their rights taken, been forced to live in certain areas and forced to do whatever they were told. I can go on and on.

If you cant look past your prejudices and stereotypes and continue with all treaty rights must be removed then things will not change and rightfully so.

IMO everyones better off working together but peoples narrow vision on things only create a bigger divide.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by R3illy

kurt you make me LOL. Problem with most of the posters here is that your arguements start from a place that has pre determined first nations(metis) shouldnt have their rights.

You've already decided it's not fair and then determine that it must be changed to suit your narrow vision of what you deem is acceptable.

Does this not sound familiar??

Sounds like everything first nations have gone on in the last 100 years. Through history they've already has their land taken, their rights taken, been forced to live in certain areas and forced to do whatever they were told. I can go on and on.

If you cant look past your prejudices and stereotypes and continue with all treaty rights must be removed then things will not change and rightfully so.

IMO everyones better off working together but peoples narrow vision on things only create a bigger divide.

R3illy, you can’t answer my question because it’ll leave egg all over your face, instead try to turn my question into a racially based statement.

What “rights” should a First Nation (metis) have that all other Canadians shouldn’t have? I am outright singling you R3illy out to answer this question. If you aren’t racist you’ll have no problem answering this, but I won’t hold my breath.

First Nation, or metis aren’t the only people who have had to endure trials and tribulations throughout history, but listening to you, you’d swear they were. Because of your narrow minded view of Canadians you are unable to understand my lack of compassion when it comes to harvesting rights. You are unable to approach this subject with a common sense approach because you feel the need to bring up the past and dwell on it rather than embrace the mistakes made and move on to the future with common sense rather than emotional feelings.

Despite what you’d like to have others believe, my objection to harvest rights are not based on race, but are based on common sense. I wasn’t joking when I said blond haired blue eyed harvesters, red haired freckles faced harvesters, there no longer will be a common visual profile of what a harvester looks like. Most of these new “traditional harvesters” will have no idea about the “tradition”, nor does it concern them, being able to hunt 24/7 is what matters. This is the problem.

Lol? It doesn’t surprise me.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

R3illy, you can’t answer my question because it’ll leave egg all over your face, instead try to turn my question into a racially based statement.

What “rights” should a First Nation (metis) have that all other Canadians shouldn’t have? I am outright singling you R3illy out to answer this question. If you aren’t racist you’ll have no problem answering this, but I won’t hold my breath.

First Nation, or metis aren’t the only people who have had to endure trials and tribulations throughout history, but listening to you, you’d swear they were. Because of your narrow minded view of Canadians you are unable to understand my lack of compassion when it comes to harvesting rights. You are unable to approach this subject with a common sense approach because you feel the need to bring up the past and dwell on it rather than embrace the mistakes made and move on to the future with common sense rather than emotional feelings.

Despite what you’d like to have others believe, my objection to harvest rights are not based on race, but are based on common sense. I wasn’t joking when I said blond haired blue eyed harvesters, red haired freckles faced harvesters, there no longer will be a common visual profile of what a harvester looks like. Most of these new “traditional harvesters” will have no idea about the “tradition”, nor does it concern them, being able to hunt 24/7 is what matters. This is the problem.

Lol? It doesn’t surprise me.

This is the 21st century, not the 19th century, when conservation was not a concern. Certain people keep going on about tradition, yet they choose to accept a non traditional way of living. The simple fact that some of those people are using computers to post on this forum, while living in a home with running water, electricity, central heat, and television, demonstrates that a traditional way of living is not really the priority, that they would have us believe. Driving automobiles and flying on aircraft are about as far from tradition as certain people can get. We all had to adapt with the times, my ancestors were Vikings, and raiding and pillaging were a huge part of their lives ten centuries ago, but they just aren't acceptable now, so we adapted, and moved on with life.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by R3illy

kurt you make me LOL. Problem with most of the posters here is that your arguements start from a place that has pre determined first nations(metis) shouldnt have their rights.

You've already decided it's not fair and then determine that it must be changed to suit your narrow vision of what you deem is acceptable.

Does this not sound familiar??

Sounds like everything first nations have gone on in the last 100 years. Through history they've already has their land taken, their rights taken, been forced to live in certain areas and forced to do whatever they were told. I can go on and on.

If you cant look past your prejudices and stereotypes and continue with all treaty rights must be removed then things will not change and rightfully so.

IMO everyones better off working together but peoples narrow vision on things only create a bigger divide.

In 1969 the Trudeau government posted a white paper plan. This plan was to provide First Nations with a buyout and proposed to do away with the Indian Act, Treaties and Reserves and that all First Nations would be treated the same as any citizen of this country. The First Nations leaders of the time did not want this and raised such a stink the plan was dropped.

[Zuludog]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

This is the 21st century, not the 19th century, when conservation was not a concern. Certain people keep going on about tradition, yet they choose to accept a non traditional way of living. The simple fact that some of those people are using computers to post on this forum, while living in a home with running water, electricity, central heat, and television, demonstrates that a traditional way of living is not really the priority, that they would have us believe. Driving automobiles and flying on aircraft are about as far from tradition as certain people can get. We all had to adapt with the times, my ancestors were Vikings, and raiding and pillaging were a huge part of their lives ten centuries ago, but they just aren't acceptable now, so we adapted, and moved on with life.

Exactly! Remember your history, celebrate your culture but don't pretend that your trying to "preserve" or "hold on to" something (ie culture) that you value on one hand while in every other aspect of your life you have changed and embraced the 21st century. Hunting is part of most Canadians' heritage but having little to no restrictions on hunting isn't preserving anyone's culture.

[Kurt505]

Now that I am opposed to white man harvest rights, can the argument be made by R3illy and a few others that this ever was about race?

[Hair trigger]

Originally Posted by Zuludog

Exactly! Remember your history, celebrate your culture but don't pretend that your trying to "preserve" or "hold on to" something (ie culture) that you value on one hand while in every other aspect of your life you have changed and embraced the 21st century. Hunting is part of most Canadians' heritage but having little to no restrictions on hunting isn't preserving anyone's culture.

This is a very good post....Well done Zuludog….

HT

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Zuludog

Exactly! Remember your history, celebrate your culture but don't pretend that your trying to "preserve" or "hold on to" something (ie culture) that you value on one hand while in every other aspect of your life you have changed and embraced the 21st century. Hunting is part of most Canadians' heritage but having little to no restrictions on hunting isn't preserving anyone's culture.

We need a “like” button here.

LC

[Who Da Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Yes it is a question I want answered and I honestly have no idea what the answer is.

I have absolutely no idea why special harvest rights exist. I’m being serious.

Well you can start reading here
https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/.../1529354437231

[R3illy]

Kurt your arguement is that you want treaty rights removed because you dont like it and it's not fair. Discussions if they ever start like this wont go anywhere.

First nations have been told forever what to do, where to live and where to go to school and now you want to decide that you want to remove any other rights they have.

Good luck with that.

There are underlying concerns I agree with that are shared by us all when it comes to conservation but this message is lost when peoples prejudices and stereotypes take over.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

Well you can start reading here
https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/.../1529354437231

Have you read the link you provided?

Here’s a quote from it, one that pertains to this exact situation we are in:



Treaties provide a framework for living together and sharing the land Indigenous peoples traditionally occupied. These agreements provide foundations for ongoing co-operation and partnership as we move forward together to advance reconciliation.

Honouring the treaty relationship and negotiating new treaties based on the recognition of rights, respect, co-operation and partnership, is key to achieving lasting reconciliation with Indigenous peoples.



To break it down, this means that if there is a flaw or reason for change, that the table should be open by BOTH parties.

Harvest rights fall under this category. There was a need at one time, but there no longer is a need for them, and are actually detrimental to our wildlife. Unlimited, unregulated harvest is at this point in time nothing more than greed. unfortunately it will cost most Albertans their Hunting heritage because they don’t hold the right bloodlines.

A common sense approach is one that should be taken, unfortunately it’s not politically correct.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by R3illy

Kurt your arguement is that you want treaty rights removed because you dont like it and it's not fair. Discussions if they ever start like this wont go anywhere.

First nations have been told forever what to do, where to live and where to go to school and now you want to decide that you want to remove any other rights they have.

Good luck with that.

There are underlying concerns I agree with that are shared by us all when it comes to conservation but this message is lost when peoples prejudices and stereotypes take over.

Nice try, but not even close.

The fact of the matter is, we all live, work, and pay taxes in Alberta. Wildlife conservation is something I personally have been paying into for 32 years now, so I consider myself qualified to have on opinion, if not a say in how I beleive things should be managed. There are over 100,000 metis people in Alberta, I personally have 9 close friends that are metis and will now have their harvest right.

You think I want it changed just because I don’t like it? BAHAHAHA! Just wait r3illy, you got a wake up call coming in September.


“First nations have been told forever what to do, where to live and where to go to school and now you want to decide that you want to remove any other rights they have”

This statement right here says it all. Did you just crawl out of a cave that was sealed in the 70’s? I think it’s pretty safe to say that over the past few decades First Nations people have had a say in what they do,where they live, and where they go to school.


What about the oppressed people of North Korea who are now Canadian citizens, what about the oppressed people from the Ukraine who now call Canada home? What about the people from all across the Middle East who are now Canadian citizens? All of these people have had their rights violated for centuries, do we owe them special rights from the activities of the past? Some very recent. I know I did not personally violate their rights, nor have I personally violated any rights of any person of any race here in Canada.

The fact is, we can all go back into our lineage and point out where our peoples rights have been violated, what does that have to do with the abuse of our wildlife conservation efforts?

[jakebrake]

Just think instead of waiting 5 years for a mule deer or moose draw it will be 10 years.I think its time to sell off the rifle collection and don’t worry about hunting anymore.I was lucky enough to lived through the hay days of hunting when there was no draws and lots of moose and mule deer.The hunting pressure 30 to 40 years ago were nothing like it is now.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by jakebrake

Just think instead of waiting 5 years for a mule deer or moose draw it will be 10 years.I think its time to sell off the rifle collection and don’t worry about hunting anymore.I was lucky enough to lived through the hay days of hunting when there was no draws and lots of moose and mule deer.The hunting pressure 30 to 40 years ago were nothing like it is now.

Keep your guns, don’t buy any Hunting or fishing licenses here in Alberta. If you see an animal you want to harvest you just have to weigh the pros and cons. If you don’t have a hunting license it can’t be taken away

[plaerzen]

I would be ok with the government selling off public land. I am metis and I will buy 10,000 acres and only other metis or paying guests can use my land. I have a degree in computer science and work for one of canada's largest oil and gas companies. I could make it happen.

[Mb-MBR]

Here we go again.......lol

When its all said and done, the responsibility to manage the natural resources in the 3 prairie provinces was transferred from the British Crown to the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba via the NRTA, 1930.

Simply put, if the provincial government shares the same sentiment that is being expressed here they have been provided the tools by numerous Supreme Court of Canada decisions to implement conservation measures if and when required. The SCC has also stated Treaty Rights are not absolute but they would have to implement other conservation measures like eliminating or reducing non resident opportunities along with reductions to the licensed hunting fraternity.......

Don't hate the player, hate the game......I'm gonna go get me a snickers

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by plaerzen

I would be ok with the government selling off public land. I am metis and I will buy 10,000 acres and only other metis or paying guests can use my land. I have a degree in computer science and work for one of canada's largest oil and gas companies. I could make it happen.

make it happen I would like to buy some more as well

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Here we go again.......lol

When its all said and done, the responsibility to manage the natural resources in the 3 prairie provinces was transferred from the British Crown to the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba via the NRTA, 1930.

Simply put, if the provincial government shares the same sentiment that is being expressed here they have been provided the tools by numerous Supreme Court of Canada decisions to implement conservation measures if and when required. The SCC has also stated Treaty Rights are not absolute but they would have to implement other conservation measures like eliminating or reducing non resident opportunities along with reductions to the licensed hunting fraternity.......

Don't hate the player, hate the game......I'm gonna go get me a snickers

I don’t think many hate the players, but do hate the game, I know that’s my position.

I think my stance has been fairly clear, it’s the resource I want preserved so my children and their children have the opportunity to hunt.

It’s racial statements like that made by plaerzen that exemplify a hatred of the players not the game. There’s nothing stopping him from buying up 10,000 acres of land right now and posting it, I encourage him to go for it if that’s what floats his boat.

Some players get so fed up by the game they go start their own, I don’t think it’s far fetched to beleive this will be a common theme amongst the players who are left out of the game.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by R3illy

Kurt your arguement is that you want treaty rights removed because you dont like it and it's not fair. Discussions if they ever start like this wont go anywhere.

First nations have been told forever what to do, where to live and where to go to school and now you want to decide that you want to remove any other rights they have.

Good luck with that.

There are underlying concerns I agree with that are shared by us all when it comes to conservation but this message is lost when peoples prejudices and stereotypes take over.

So have you personally been told where you have to live, where you have to go to school, and what you have to do for a living? Have your children? Or do you and your children have the freedom to live where you please, go to school where you please, and work while you please? We can't change the past, but if we keep trying to live in the past, we can never move forward to better our lives. We can't all be equal, unless we all want to be equal, and equal means the same laws applying to everyone.

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You obviously aren't capable of comprehending what I posted, so I will explain it. As it is, it's a free for all on public lands, with no seasons or limits on how many animals can be killed by unregulated hunters. No limits or seasons for some people means that the game population can't be regulated. At least if the land was private, the landowners could regulate access , and at least have some control over the harvest. And making the land private, doesn't mean that nobody can hunt it, 90% of the land that I hunt is private land.

Trying to make a personal attack on my intelligence does not make your argument any stronger. This is a forum for discussion and not to put people down for disagreeing with you.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Chief16

Trying to make a personal attack on my intelligence does not make your argument any stronger. This is a forum for discussion and not to put people down for disagreeing with you.

Your response to my post made it pretty obvious that you either failed to comprehend what I was posting, or you simply ignored the meaning, and changed the topic, because it didn't suit your agenda. But go ahead and try and make it into a personal attack, because your feelings were hurt.

[honda610]

Its funny how some say it's there tradition yet the same people a few months ago were talking about laying a beating on the moose in Wainwright. Same people with special privilege layed a beating on a range control truck. Apparently firearms are out of the traditional norm so they should go back to pointed sticks and a lion cloth.
Ibtl

[plaerzen]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I don’t think many hate the players, but do hate the game, I know that’s my position.

I think my stance has been fairly clear, it’s the resource I want preserved so my children and their children have the opportunity to hunt.

It’s racial statements like that made by plaerzen that exemplify a hatred of the players not the game. There’s nothing stopping him from buying up 10,000 acres of land right now and posting it, I encourage him to go for it if that’s what floats his boat.

Some players get so fed up by the game they go start their own, I don’t think it’s far fetched to beleive this will be a common theme amongst the players who are left out of the game.

I wish my biggest problem was thinking my grandchildren won't have anything to hunt in the 2nd least populous country in the world. Come talk to me about "racial comments" when you get the snot kicked out of you by both whites and cree for not fitting in.

[Kurt505]

I’m going to just say this, if by chance it comes to the point where my family is not given the opportunity to hunt on public land, I won’t be calling the fish and wildlife if I happen across a dead moose on my private land. I’m pretty sure most Albertans who hunt today that own land and don’t have the lineage for rights will feel the same way. When it comes to that point, I guess he who owns the most land can put up the most “keep out” and “no trespassing” signs. People can’t report what they don’t see. There still is laws in place preventing unrestricted harvest on private land.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by plaerzen

I wish my biggest problem was thinking my grandchildren won't have anything to hunt in the 2nd least populous country in the world. Come talk to me about "racial comments" when you get the snot kicked out of you by both whites and cree for not fitting in.

what a winner you are there is no need for that