Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 09-11-2015, 11:10 PM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is offline
Gone Hunting
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
Default

One thing I didn't consider and I suspect many others aren't considering is movement of the target over the time the bullet is in flight.

At 1100 yards it would take a 300 win mag bullet very close to one second to reach the target, after the bullet leaves the barrel. And maybe close to one and a half seconds from the time the shooter commits to pulling the trigger.

That means that an animal moving at five miles per hour could cover seven feet or more in the time the bullet is in flight.

Which is what I discovered when I tried it and it is one of the primary reasons I decided it wasn't for me. I was lucky, it was a clean miss. I saw the bullet hit behind the target but it was too close for comfort for me.

My target was walking slowly so I lead it by a foot but it could just as easily have been still as I pulled the trigger and then started to move while the bullet was in flight and the results would have been close to the same.

I make no judgement as to whether long range hunting is ethical or not.
No one knows everything there is to know and no one can plan for every possibility.
We are all in the same boat, we must use our best judgement and sometimes we will all miss the mark fo one reason or another.

I know my chances of making such a shot are slim. I can't know what the chances of any other shooter making the shot are.

There are differances in individuals abilities, in the equipment we each have,and in each situation so no one but the shooter can know what his or her chances are.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 09-11-2015, 11:17 PM
huntin'fool's Avatar
huntin'fool huntin'fool is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
One thing I didn't consider and I suspect many others aren't considering is movement of the target over the time the bullet is in flight.

At 1100 yards it would take a 300 win mag bullet very close to one second to reach the target, after the bullet leaves the barrel. And maybe close to one and a half seconds from the time the shooter commits to pulling the trigger.

That means that an animal moving at five miles per hour could cover seven feet or more in the time the bullet is in flight.

Which is what I discovered when I tried it and it is one of the primary reasons I decided it wasn't for me. I was lucky, it was a clean miss. I saw the bullet hit behind the target but it was too close for comfort for me.

My target was walking slowly so I lead it by a foot but it could just as easily have been still as I pulled the trigger and then started to move while the bullet was in flight and the results would have been close to the same.

I make no judgement as to whether long range hunting is ethical or not.
No one knows everything there is to know and no one can plan for every possibility.
We are all in the same boat, we must use our best judgement and sometimes we will all miss the mark fo one reason or another.

I know my chances of making such a shot are slim. I can't know what the chances of any other shooter making the shot are.

There are differances in individuals abilities, in the equipment we each have,and in each situation so no one but the shooter can know what his or her chances are.
This is the reason why you study your quarry. Wait and you will find one of two things, the animal won't stop walking or it will stop and remain at high alert for long enough to perform a good shot. Wait for the right timing , if it doesnt come, big deal...wait for the next one.
Taking a shot at 1100 yds in a walking animal is just plain stupid... No offence...
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 09-12-2015, 01:13 AM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is offline
Gone Hunting
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntin'fool View Post
This is the reason why you study your quarry. Wait and you will find one of two things, the animal won't stop walking or it will stop and remain at high alert for long enough to perform a good shot. Wait for the right timing , if it doesnt come, big deal...wait for the next one.
Taking a shot at 1100 yds in a walking animal is just plain stupid... No offence...
No offense taken. BTW my attempt was no where near 1,000 yards but I learned that lesson nonetheless.

When it happened to me I immediately realized that I could not predict what the animal might do with enough accuracy for me to take the risk.

Animals can act in unexpected ways. Yes careful observation would reduce the risk and waiting for the right moment would as well, but for me the risk is still too high.

I would always wonder if there might be some unseen thing that could spook my target just as the bullet left the barrel. Too late to stop and too great a chance of wounding and animal for me.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 09-12-2015, 06:50 AM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
No offense taken. BTW my attempt was no where near 1,000 yards but I learned that lesson nonetheless.

When it happened to me I immediately realized that I could not predict what the animal might do with enough accuracy for me to take the risk.

Animals can act in unexpected ways. Yes careful observation would reduce the risk and waiting for the right moment would as well, but for me the risk is still too high.

I would always wonder if there might be some unseen thing that could spook my target just as the bullet left the barrel. Too late to stop and too great a chance of wounding and animal for me.
Fred bear had a deer flip right around after he released an arrow and hit it on the opposite side of where he was aiming with his bow.
I had an arrow hit a deer sideways once when the wind was gusting. Shot was inside 25 yards .
Deer have been know to " jump the string" actually crouch at the shot and have the arrow hit high or go right over them.
I have seen deer move just as a hunter shot and get hug badly as well , but that was at 200. Interestingly enough , I have never seen it happen at long distance but I am sure it does.

Birds can do weird things in flight as well.
I don't like shooting at running game but have several times - shots were all well inside 75 yards however .
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 09-12-2015, 08:22 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
Fred bear had a deer flip right around after he released an arrow and hit it on the opposite side of where he was aiming with his bow.
I had an arrow hit a deer sideways once when the wind was gusting. Shot was inside 25 yards .
Deer have been know to " jump the string" actually crouch at the shot and have the arrow hit high or go right over them.
I have seen deer move just as a hunter shot and get hug badly as well , but that was at 200. Interestingly enough , I have never seen it happen at long distance but I am sure it does.

Birds can do weird things in flight as well.
I don't like shooting at running game but have several times - shots were all well inside 75 yards however .
Cat
Yep, you can never take the shot back just own up to the outcome.
Things happen up close and far, just insure you finish what you started.
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 09-12-2015, 08:28 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
Default

I am going out today with my Remington model 14 chambered in 30 Rem. Sight her in at 100 yards with home rolls pushing Hornady 150gr round nose pills.

Might stretch it out to 200 yards to see how much she drops but would I take the shot at a deer

Only if I get enough range time and feel confident.

I hunt and pride myself on the stalk or set up that keeps it close and personal plus like watching the critters up close
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 09-12-2015, 08:32 AM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Yep, you can never take the shot back just own up to the outcome.
Things happen up close and far, just insure you finish what you started.
That is the bottom line right there!
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 10-25-2015, 11:31 PM
Long distance shooter's Avatar
Long distance shooter Long distance shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Default Seriously? What is long distance anyway?

This is an interesting thread! Having said that the questions should really be - is it unethical to take a shot at an animal at a distance you cannot consistently hit a 12" x 12" target? (or whatever the "kill zone is for the animal you are hunting)

At one end of the spectrum we have the average person with an average rifle that may be accurate at 100 meters to 200 meters. From my experience the average hunter may go out prior to hunting season and shoot a box of ammo at 100 m to make sure everything is "OK". I should note that this is supported by statistics that say the average big game kill shot in North America is somewhere between 75 m and 100 m.

At the other end of the spectrum you have the serious long range shooters who can make shots repeatable at distances in the 800m to 1000+ m range . These people separate themselves by the following:
- they understand practical ballistics (I would say 95% of hunters do not), and
- they have the correct equipment (range finders which range to over 1000 m on non reflective targets, hand held barometric stations, ballistic hand held computers), and
- a rifle and optics which are capable of shooting under 0.5 MOA, and
- The most important - a significant amount of time behind the trigger practicing.

Real practice at various distances is extremely important. These people shoot in the order of 1000 to 3000 rounds a year!! Yes that much. And guess what - if you are that good you probably compete in long range shooting too. For these people I would say they have the same probability of hitting an elk at 1000 m as the average guy does at 150 m.

On the equipment side, the equipment is specialized and you pretty well do not buy anything from the local store (other than powder, primers, and bullets). For example a range finder capable of ranging in non ideal situations up to 2 km will cost you in the order of $5,000 to $10,000. This type of rangefinder will give you distance, compass reading, and the vertical angle you are shooting. All items you will need to make a longer distance shot.

By the way, my 15 year old daughter shoots with me and she can consistently hit a 8" circle out to 700m!! And yes she shoots about 1000 round a year! So far she has taken three animals and 2 of them were over 350 m and they were all one shot kills.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 10-26-2015, 06:15 AM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,530
Default

There are many of us( here and other forums) that think the very same way you do as far as distance goes .
I think I said it earlier here, that although I used to be able to kill humanely and quickly at long range , I no longer shoot enough to keep up the gilt edged accuracy need to do it, so don't.
Same thing with my archery .
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 10-26-2015, 11:06 AM
Speckle55's Avatar
Speckle55 Speckle55 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,268
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uKz_h9xV1c

David
__________________
Scientific and Analytical Angler/Hunter
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 10-26-2015, 03:57 PM
marxman's Avatar
marxman marxman is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,844
Default

Im not interested in killing an animal at 1000 yards but i would need a gps mark by direction and distance even if you drop it in its tracks how are you going to find it
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 10-26-2015, 04:13 PM
fish_e_o fish_e_o is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: rollyview
Posts: 7,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marxman View Post
Im not interested in killing an animal at 1000 yards but i would need a gps mark by direction and distance even if you drop it in its tracks how are you going to find it
i have a laser pointer that you aim towards where you shot. very easy to see and even makes short range hunting easier.

shoot, aim your laser to point of impact, wait, go get animal.
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 10-26-2015, 07:46 PM
H380's Avatar
H380 H380 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
Fred bear had a deer flip right around after he released an arrow and hit it on the opposite side of where he was aiming with his bow.
I had an arrow hit a deer sideways once when the wind was gusting. Shot was inside 25 yards .
Deer have been know to " jump the string" actually crouch at the shot and have the arrow hit high or go right over them.
I have seen deer move just as a hunter shot and get hug badly as well , but that was at 200. Interestingly enough , I have never seen it happen at long distance but I am sure it does.

Birds can do weird things in flight as well.
I don't like shooting at running game but have several times - shots were all well inside 75 yards however .
Cat
I had the same experience as Fred , shot a whitetail doe at 40 yds with my bow , not a breath of wind and very quiet . Upon releasing the arrow she began her duck and spin and it was the longest few seconds of my life as I saw her spin and take the arrow behind the shoulder on the opposite side that i had been aiming for . No long distance on a critter is not for me especially with a bow .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.