270win or 270wsm

Originally Posted by Cal

I know that in general your statement about metric cartridges is true, but the 7mm seems to be the exception. Most of the 7mm magnums seem to be about as popular as their 30 cal counter parts. I cant help but think that if the .280 had been called the 7mm-06 it might have done better.

I honestly can't think of another 7mm mag that has stood the test of time...7STW, RUM, WSM, SAUM are all dying slow deaths or have totally faded away.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

it was a reason for me, i shot a doe at 521 yrds with the .270 i had before, and in practical terms with that bullet at the time figured that was about the usueable limit for it on game...even though i hit well to 700 i think it lost too much velocity to get bullets to open up well etc.

equally important to me was the fact i didn't want to reload

yet i wanted ballistics to take me as close to the distance as the single turn of a leupold target knob (15 moa) would take me in terms of useable velocity on game to have the bullet stay in parameters specified by manufacturer, so i could use a kenton speed dial knob in yards to match everything so it was fast/simple for hunting....the .270 wsm was the least horsepower i could drive(in factory ammo cartridges) to stay around 1800 fps min impact velocity to how far the leupold scope would give me in one rotation (around 800 yrds)....so for me it was maximum efficiency, plus it came in short action for a lightweight gun which was also important for me but that was a bonus really

i could hit well with the regular .270 to further than it could keep recommended (on game) velocities up on my bullet of choice (accubonds) so i upgraded for more horsepower, hope that makes sense, i have a well balanced rig now that can stay around 1800 fps (750 yrds elevation depending) about as far as i can speed dial with a standard 1/4 moa per click leupold

so the allure is for those who want to do longer range without the reloading.....capiche?

if i reloaded i could keep similar velocities to similar ranges with 105 bergers in a .243 (a build i plan on in future)....but i don't reload yet, i have too much on the go to take it on, so until i reload (retrirement maybe?) then to do what i want with factory ammo i have to step up to the .270 wsm

otherwise i'm with you....regular hunting/shooting i vote .270 over the wsm every time!

thats the beauty of reloading to me, access to the really high bc bullets allowing you to go much further on less powder, nicer on the shoulder, more efficient etc. build lighter guns without muzzlebrakes that can go as far and recoil tolerable as heavier harder kicking magnums

That has nothing to do with what I asked. Thanks anyway.

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

That has nothing to do with what I asked. Thanks anyway.

Let"s face it Chuck ..u aint gonna be happy till all the wsm's get traded in for 06,s and then we can all agree with YOU !!!! tis funny actually

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by chuck

That has nothing to do with what I asked. Thanks anyway.

lol, i guess if your math isn't up to par then your right, nothing to do with what you asked....

oh and,

your welcome

[Cal]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I honestly can't think of another 7mm mag that has stood the test of time...7STW, RUM, WSM, SAUM are all dying slow deaths or have totally faded away.

Yes but none of them except for the WSM did a whole lot worse than any of the other rounds in their family.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Cal

I know that in general your statement about metric cartridges is true, but the 7mm seems to be the exception. Most of the 7mm magnums seem to be about as popular as their 30 cal counter parts. I cant help but think that if the .280 had been called the 7mm-06 it might have done better.

I think the .270 did beter than any of the other WSM's because it was the only one with any balistic advantage over the round it is most often compared to. On the balistics charts the other wsm rounds dont have any major advantage over their magnum counterparts. Besides that taking North America's 3rd most popular cartridge and making it a magnum was a marketing no brainer, not sure how weatherby screwed it up.

There were actually a few Remington Rifles that left the factory stamped 7mm-06. I believe Winchester made a stink about the use of the 06 designation so Remington stamped a few "7mm Express Remington". For some reason they dropped that designation in favor of 280 Remington, perhaps to get away from the stigma attached to the metric designations in the American Market.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I honestly can't think of another 7mm mag that has stood the test of time...7STW, RUM, WSM, SAUM are all dying slow deaths or have totally faded away.

The 7mmSAUM is perhaps the best of all of the short magnums and is probably the best 7mm Magnum as well. The Long Range BR shooters have discovered the 7mm SAUM and there might well be a revival of this cartridge. Check out this link to the 6mm BR site and see what is being said about the 7mm SAUM, especially as a dual cartridge. http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7SAUM

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Pines

Let"s face it Chuck ..u aint gonna be happy till all the wsm's get traded in for 06,s and then we can all agree with YOU !!!! tis funny actually

I don't care what you shoot or hunt with. Honestly. And the only 30-06 I own is a donor action destined to become a 280 Remington. If faster is more modern, and it isn't, and cool is new go for it. That is not my criteria for choosing a rifle. I have come to hate burning excess powder, excessive muzzle blast, and recoil at the ripe old age of 34. I've owned multitudes of rifles chambered for multitudes of cartridges and have shot enough game to know most are raising a tidal wave in a tin cup when it comes to the latest and greatest.

People need to shoot more than less and recoil and cost are the two biggest detriments to doing that IME.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

The 7mmSAUM is perhaps the best of all of the short magnums and is probably the best 7mm Magnum as well. The Long Range BR shooters have discovered the 7mm SAUM and there might well be a revival of this cartridge. Check out this link to the 6mm BR site and see what is being said about the 7mm SAUM, especially as a dual cartridge. http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7SAUM

The best of the bunch in my opinion and Nosler must think it's alive and well as they'll offer brass for it in the spring.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

lol, i guess if your math isn't up to par then your right, nothing to do with what you asked....

oh and,

your welcome

This was the question:

"I could never understand the allure of the 270 WSM over the 7MM version. Maybe SC and the longer range shooters could enlighten me on this one as LR shooting seems to be a reason given to going to the WSM's."

I'm not sure where the 270 WCF fits into an answer here.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by chuck

The best of the bunch in my opinion and Nosler must think it's alive and well as they'll offer brass for it in the spring.

Good to hear. I thought that Lapua might be persuaded to make it as the LRBR shooters are taking an interest. I have found that the Remington Brass is good enough for me.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Shot from this "Poor Mans HS Precision", Model 7SAUM with 22" barrel.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't care what you shoot or hunt with. Honestly. And the only 30-06 I own is a donor action destined to become a 280 Remington. If faster is more modern, and it isn't, and cool is new go for it. That is not my criteria for choosing a rifle. I have come to hate burning excess powder, excessive muzzle blast, and recoil at the ripe old age of 34. I've owned multitudes of rifles chambered for multitudes of cartridges and have shot enough game to know most are raising a tidal wave in a tin cup when it comes to the latest and greatest.

People need to shoot more than less and recoil and cost are the two biggest detriments to doing that IME.

If Only we all had your wisdom AT age 34....because we would all shoot the 30-06 amd there would be no need for a winchester 270, rem 7mm, 280, 308.338,325wsm ,270wm ,7mmwsm ect ..u get the idea..Chuck u r stuck with the almigty most BORING cartridge ever..lmao...but u stay there ..cause I dont want u on our side ..lmao

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Pines

If Only we all had your wisdom AT age 34....because we would all shoot the 30-06 amd there would be no need for a winchester 270, rem 7mm, 280, 308.338,325wsm ,270wm ,7mmwsm ect ..u get the idea..Chuck u r stuck with the almigty most BORING cartridge ever..lmao...but u stay there ..cause I dont want u on our side ..lmao

I don't hunt with the 30-06. In case you missed it the first time.

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't hunt with the 30-06. In case you missed it the first time.

YOU full of BS ...lol...u want some post with u and the rmm 30-06..and why u HATE the wsm ??? u call it

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't hunt with the 30-06. In case you missed it the first time.

YOU see Chuck this is suppose to be a informative alberta site and not " let me tell ya my way " and you walk away ...with no challenge

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Pines

YOU full of BS ...lol...u want some post with u and the rmm 30-06..and why u HATE the wsm ??? u call it

I don't hunt with a 30-06. I'm not sure how I can make it more plain.

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't hunt with a 30-06. I'm not sure how I can make it more plain.

ok lol

[7MM Mike]

Chuck,
The only reason I could see anyone choosing the .270WSM over the 7mm version is factory ammo selection - as SC doesnt handload I would imagine this was the logic (although dont want to speak for SC). Otherwise you have so many more options in 7mm projectiles, there really is no comparison. I dont know if there is a common 270 projectile that can come close to the BC of the 168gr or 180gr Bergers.
Mike

Originally Posted by lclund1946

The 7mmSAUM is perhaps the best of all of the short magnums and is probably the best 7mm Magnum as well. The Long Range BR shooters have discovered the 7mm SAUM and there might well be a revival of this cartridge. Check out this link to the 6mm BR site and see what is being said about the 7mm SAUM, especially as a dual cartridge. http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7SAUM

No doubt there's some niche interest but for a new cartridge to be successful it must have mass acceptance by the bubba billy joe hunter. None of the new 7s have. The STW came as close as any have but it too has gone the way of the dodo.

[Ricksterbucks]

Ya I bought a BLR light stainless 270 wsm with a bushnell 6500 elite 2.5 x16x42
VERY NICE to shoot thks for all the insight guys

[Pines]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't hunt with a 30-06. I'm not sure how I can make it more plain.

ok ...chuck I thinkin ur converted..its sounds like u in love with WSM ?? right

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 7MM Mike

Chuck,
The only reason I could see anyone choosing the .270WSM over the 7mm version is factory ammo selection - as SC doesnt handload I would imagine this was the logic (although dont want to speak for SC). Otherwise you have so many more options in 7mm projectiles, there really is no comparison. I dont know if there is a common 270 projectile that can come close to the BC of the 168gr or 180gr Bergers.
Mike

This is exactly what I'm getting at. If I'm choosing a WSM to extend my reach then the 270 WSM should be as dead as any dinosaur.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Pines

ok ...chuck I thinkin ur converted..its sounds like u in love with WSM ?? right

I don't hunt with a 30-06 or any WSM.

Originally Posted by chuck

This is exactly what I'm getting at. If I'm choosing a WSM to extend my reach then the 270 WSM should be as dead as any dinosaur.

I'd say the 200 extra fps that the 270 WSM offers up over the 270 Win is significantly more advantages than the the slight difference in BC between the 7mm and 270 projectiles....at long but not extreme range. Remember you were the one that said the 200 fps meant nothing but now you're saying the slight BC difference is enough to significantly seperate the 7 and 270WSMs.? It takes a long distance for the BC advantage to show up in a 180 bullet in a 7mm. It eventually does but speed trumps BC for a lot of yards.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ricksterbucks

Ya I bought a BLR light stainless 270 wsm with a bushnell 6500 elite 2.5 x16x42
VERY NICE to shoot thks for all the insight guys

COngrats on the purchase. And to everyone else, as far as caliber debates go this one was fairly informative and there were very few personal attacks, I think we're showing progress.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Come on Stinky...not you too....lol

Whatta mean ??
I know I always go hunting without ammo and usually buy it when I get out in the sticks.
I woulda thought that I could get 270wsm ammo when I get to the hardware store in Red Earth or Wabasca ??

Never could figure out that point

Originally Posted by 7MM Mike

Chuck,
The only reason I could see anyone choosing the .270WSM over the 7mm version is factory ammo selection - as SC doesnt handload I would imagine this was the logic (although dont want to speak for SC). Otherwise you have so many more options in 7mm projectiles, there really is no comparison. I dont know if there is a common 270 projectile that can come close to the BC of the 168gr or 180gr Bergers.
Mike

For me it was more because I wanted a 130-140 grain shooter. I think the .270 does that better. Of course you are right about the 7mm BC but truthfully, for ranges sub 600 yards with the proper optics, either is pretty well equal....and that could likely be said to 800 yards. If you want an extreme range shooter then yes the 7 would be better but if that were the case...there's likely better cartridges out there.

[sheepguide]

I say .270wsm also. I dont know alot on the ballistics and fancy numbers so ill leave that to the guys that do. But I have shot alot at my gongs and with the same bullets out of my .270wsm and the wifes .270win and I do know which is hitting way harder, alot louder hit and leaving alot deeper mark and it sure isnt the .270win. May not be scientific but works for me.
As far as purchasing bullets... any hunting store ive been in has had some. And if thats your biggest concern all you have to do is maybe be prepaired and buy bullets before you leave. Kinda sounds like the .270win guys need to run get bullets lots, maybe you need to not miss so often and you wouldnt run out of bullets and need to get more.
And the recoil isnt much higher than that of the .270win at least with my X-Bolt.

SG

[LongDraw]

Pick your flavor- If you are shooting a cartridge that is pushing a 130-180 grain bullet 2800-3200 fps and shooting inside of 500 yards cartridge selection is a moot point. Picking a proper bullet and cartridge with manageable recoil should be at the top of the list.

Once you are shooting past 500 yards and out to 1k is where bullet BC is paramount. Wind drift is the biggest reason you want to shoot a high BC bullet at extreme ranges hence the poularity of cartridges pushing .264 and .284 high BC bullets.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'd say the 200 extra fps that the 270 WSM offers up over the 270 Win is significantly more advantages than the the slight difference in BC between the 7mm and 270 projectiles....at long but not extreme range. Remember you were the one that said the 200 fps meant nothing but now you're saying the slight BC difference is enough to significantly seperate the 7 and 270WSMs.? It takes a long distance for the BC advantage to show up in a 180 bullet in a 7mm. It eventually does but speed trumps BC for a lot of yards.

Did I say "significantly seperate the 7 and 270 WSM's"?

Naw, didn't think so.

I will say though that the 4" difference that 200 fps makes at 500 yds isn't "significant" either. I mean lets be honest with ourselves here. Can you hit an 8" pie plate at 500 yds with your 270 WSM that I can't with my 270 Winchester?

If you're looking for a long range advantage, take advantage. Though I'd bring a 243 to a long range fight with Pines. For pink slips.