Brown Bear Caliber ?

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Is that what he claims!!!

Just recalling a post of his from a while back.....I've got no reason to doubt him if he says he can.

[ram crazy]

Well he does get lots of practice shooting at things.

[Rockymtnx]

Chuck, how come all of the Brown Bear Outfitters in Alaska tell you to take the shot I have mentioned? Gunslinger even mentioned the shot he was told to go for. Just for interest sake, you should ask a bear guru like Phil Shoemaker(I think you know him). See what he say's about anchoring a Alaskan Brown Bear. I already know his response, but you should ask him yourself.

You can look up a thousand pictures of a bear online, and see if you do hit that shoulder ball joint you are probably going to get the front of the lungs too. When your dealing with a Brown Bear if your 2" off your still going to do some serious hurt to him.

One thing that I could agree to you with on taking a rib/lung shot is that it could be a good choice when shooting a little gun. If you don't have the power to penetrate and do some damage, take the lungs. It would kind of be like trying to shoulder shoot a moose with a .243. This is a prime example of where a mangum can out perform a smaller gun.

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

The margin for error putting the bullet that far forward in the body seems too great. Maybe try for the vitals and look for an angle that busts the far shoulder on the way out?

2" left and your chasing a brisket wounded bear that isnt going to die anytime soon.

And a little to the right and you are in the guts with a behind the leg shot. The marin of error on the shoulder is far greater than behind the leg. I know I'd rather follow up a brisket hit bear than a gut shot one. At least I know the brisket hit one is going to take off and likely be fine. The gut shot one is more likely to go a ways and then lie in wait. We aren't taking any meat home from a grizz. Bust him down quickly with the shot that stacks the odds in your favour. If you aren't 100% certain of hitting your mark on a grizz...best advice is don't take the shot. As many have attested here, the number one piece of advice from experienced grizz guides is hit the shoulder. There's a reason.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

And a little to the right and you are in the guts with a behind the leg shot. The marin of error on the shoulder is far greater than behind the leg. I know I'd rather follow up a brisket hit bear than a gut shot one. At least I know the brisket hit one is going to take off and likely be fine. The gut shot one is more likely to go a ways and then lie in wait. We aren't taking any meat home from a grizz. Bust him down quickly with the shot that stacks the odds in your favour. If you aren't 100% certain of hitting your mark on a grizz...best advice is don't take the shot. As many have attested here, the number one piece of advice from experienced grizz guides is hit the shoulder. There's a reason.

And even further right you can hit him in the nuts. There is no end to these discussions with you so I'll continue on for a bit...

On any type of quartering away shots, the cross section of the shoudler blade becomes smaller, whereas the size of the vitals stays the roughly the same size. The vitals continually are in the same spot give or take behind the shoulder. The shoulder and leg move as the bear walks or stands different making you make the judgment on where it is.

I agree it would be nice to put any animal down on the spot. Guides of course would prefer it. But dead is dead, and I feel that a shot behind the shoulder is consistently the easiest to make and effective at killing.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

This from the guy that can walk out the back door, flop down on the ground in the snow and shoot a half inch group through the grass with the wind blowing without even really trying. Come on chuck, you have to be able to hit something as big as a bear's shoulder. Even I can hit it and I'm a minute of a barn door shooter on a calm day when I'm really concentrating. The shoulder is a huge freaking target with tons of room for error. If you can't hit it, you likely shouldn't be taking the shot.

Can you read? Seriously.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Well he does get lots of practice shooting at things.

Come up with something intelligent.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Gunslinger even mentioned the shot he was told to go for.

And yet he appears to shoot his bear in the ass.

Like I've said. Shot angle makes recommending a double shoulder shot almost ridiculous IMO.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

This from the guy that can walk out the back door, flop down on the ground in the snow and shoot a half inch group through the grass with the wind blowing without even really trying. Come on chuck, you have to be able to hit something as big as a bear's shoulder. Even I can hit it and I'm a minute of a barn door shooter on a calm day when I'm really concentrating. The shoulder is a huge freaking target with tons of room for error. If you can't hit it, you likely shouldn't be taking the shot.

While you have taken that completely out of context and ad libbed as best you could. Why then didn't the shooter make that shot in your weird video trailer? I'm sure you have photos of the entrance and exit wounds eh.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by chuck

Shot angle makes recommending a double shoulder shot almost ridiculous IMO.

Ahh, there we go, your opinion. Very good Chuck, I'm sure that your opinion is important to you, but maybe not so much with the people you are arguing with. I know I'll file your opinion right where it belongs.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by chuck

Come up with something intelligent.

Is that the best smart ***** remark you have.

[gitrdun]

Earlier, the .444 Marlin was mentioned as a good option, but it wasn't accepted as a good choice by a couple of replies. Although I haven't shot ANY bear with my .444, I certainly wouldn't discount it as I've seen the cratter that it left in a 200 yard gong with 265gr IB's. Coupled with the new FTX's bullet also in 265gr., I certainly can't see how that caliber would have any trouble breaking the front shoulders which also would be my placement choice, with a quick follow up to the vitals of course.

[3Dshooter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

And a little to the right and you are in the guts with a behind the leg shot. The marin of error on the shoulder is far greater than behind the leg. I know I'd rather follow up a brisket hit bear than a gut shot one. At least I know the brisket hit one is going to take off and likely be fine. The gut shot one is more likely to go a ways and then lie in wait. We aren't taking any meat home from a grizz. Bust him down quickly with the shot that stacks the odds in your favour. If you aren't 100% certain of hitting your mark on a grizz...best advice is don't take the shot. As many have attested here, the number one piece of advice from experienced grizz guides is hit the shoulder. There's a reason.

I have followed up a brisket hit bear and he did just what you said of a gut shot bear. Shot not long before dark at close range (shooting for the shoulder), we followed and "bumped" him at dark. Picked up the trail in the morning and caught up with him about 14 hours after the initial shot. He would dig a hole, lie in it, go 10 - 15 yards, dig another hole and lie in wait! And he did this for 2- 300 yards! It was slow going (BC coast) lots of alder and very large downed trees. We used our Surefire flash lights, mid morning, to search under logs, in holes etc. as we expected it to happen close. It did! When we had about given up, he broke to our left, moving quick at about 15 yards. Roaring and growling! A 270 grain solid through both shoulders turned him toward us, a couple quick 400's finished him at 10 yards.

The first shot was forward in the leg, missing the bone, then breaking the "brisket". There were bone fragments found in the heart and lungs. This was a dead bear with the initial shot.... eventually!

Just to add, while meat is not the prime objective, the hams and back straps come home every time!

Originally Posted by chuck

While you have taken that completely out of context and ad libbed as best you could. Why then didn't the shooter make that shot in your weird video trailer? I'm sure you have photos of the entrance and exit wounds eh.

Chuck I apologise if I took something out of context but here's what you wrote. I see you've since deleted the photo from photobucket but if I recall correctly, the one group was around .5"?

What exactly are field conditions? I shot these hasty groups prone in the middle of a field, in the snow, with the wind blowing, and grass waiving in front of me. In that position I was even able to call the flyer. I would suspect most guys wouldn't have a clue what they can do under "field" type situations.

As for your other comment, several animals are shot and several animals are passsed up in that video. You'll have to be a bit more specific.

Originally Posted by 3Dshooter

I have followed up a brisket hit bear and he did just what you said of a gut shot bear. Shot not long before dark at close range (shooting for the shoulder), we followed and "bumped" him at dark. Picked up the trail in the morning and caught up with him about 14 hours after the initial shot. He would dig a hole, lie in it, go 10 - 15 yards, dig another hole and lie in wait! And he did this for 2- 300 yards! It was slow going (BC coast) lots of alder and very large downed trees. We used our Surefire flash lights, mid morning, to search under logs, in holes etc. as we expected it to happen close. It did! When we had about given up, he broke to our left, moving quick at about 15 yards. Roaring and growling! A 270 grain solid through both shoulders turned him toward us, a couple quick 400's finished him at 10 yards.

The first shot was forward in the leg, missing the bone, then breaking the "brisket". There were bone fragments found in the heart and lungs. This was a dead bear with the initial shot.... eventually!

Just to add, while meat is not the prime objective, the hams and back straps come home every time!

Bad shots are bad shots. I've got no issue with folks who aim for the heart and lungs but it's not for me. I'll take one or both shoulders every time. Someone asked so I answered. Glad your method works for you.

Interesting that you've eaten several grizz. From what I've been told they are totally unpalatable. Maybe have to try a backstrap this fall if we manage to find one.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard. You don't simply put a hole through the shoulder when reasonable velocity is involed, you smash and devestate bone all the way through. A follow up shot may be required (often not) but if it is, the animal is right there. You take out both shoulders and a bear is going no where. At least that's been my experience.

it would be hard to be more correct than that....but i might add a little to it. for most people, the first thing they think of when they see a naked bear is how human it looks. they are built very much like us even though they get around the forest horizontally where we do it vertically. for those that sit at their computer wondering why others like to shoot shoulders, think about this.......if someone put a bullet through you broadside entering just below the point of your shoulder, think about all the goo it would obliterate on the way. also think if the angle wasnt perfectly broadside but from a somewhat quartering angle a bullet went through you to break the off shoulder in the same way. again consider what that bullet would be thrashing along the way. the added bonus is that the animal will drop quite nicely. to aim a little behind the shoulder kills too, but they can go a long way before dying.

really, the only reason not to take that shot is that it costs a few steaks. for a color blind tracker like me thats a good trade....especially on a bear that id never eat anyway.

[3Dshooter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Bad shots are bad shots. I've got no issue with folks who aim for the heart and lungs but it's not for me. I'll take one or both shoulders every time. Someone asked so I answered. Glad your method works for you.

Things often don't go as planned. And this can be said for any shot angle. I don't hold off for a perfect, slight quartering away shot. I'm a patient hunter but when an opportunity presents itself, regardless of angle, when I'm confident my hold is a quick killing shot, my rifle bucks. I'm talking any animal. High shoulder, quartering one way or another or double lung. As for all of us,my preference is to kill the animal quick and clean. No two situations are identical.

[Stinky Coyote]

holy crap i love it....keep it up guys, great stuff!

whats better for a chuckle than chuck doing...well.....what chuck does?

i sometimes wonder if he actually does have a sense of humor and does 'his thing' just to get the rest of us to 'do our thing'

don't fall for it guys, when it comes to firearms killing animals in north america....he's the man, his log in name should really be 'chuck norris of abo'

lol

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Is that the best smart ***** remark you have.

I'd like to hear about the bears you've shot and your recommendation on shot placement regarding same.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

holy crap i love it....keep it up guys, great stuff!

whats better for a chuckle than chuck doing...well.....what chuck does?

i sometimes wonder if he actually does have a sense of humor and does 'his thing' just to get the rest of us to 'do our thing'

don't fall for it guys, when it comes to firearms killing animals in north america....he's the man, his log in name should really be 'chuck norris of abo'

lol

This is too much like fun.

[ram crazy]

Well the only bear that I killed was coming straight at me, and I hit him 4" under his chin at 25yrds. The dam thing wouldn't listen to me when I was telling him to turn Broad side so I can get the right shot. Who knew that a 270win would make a bear pileup so fast with the not so perfect shot, oh and it only took one shot.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Well the only bear that I killed was coming straight at me, and I hit him 4" under his chin at 25yrds. The dam thing wouldn't listen to me when I was telling him to turn Broad side so I can get the right shot. Who knew that a 270win would make a bear pileup so fast with the not so perfect shot, oh and it only took one shot.

So you haven't a clue about the current subject, and where are you coming up with these multiple shots garbage? If you are inferring that I've taken lots of shots at bear because I've shot lots of them well then OK. If not stick it in your ear.

[Pathfinder76]

Here is a Mule Deer that I shot at 390 yds. You can see the exit wound and it missed the shoulder knuckle by literally less than an inch. That resulted in a highish double lung shot and that buck trotted nearly 300 yds before going down. I want low lung top of the heart and bone if I can get it for that very reason. Oh and I had two witnesses and it's on film.

[Rackmastr]

Gotta say chuck....you keep a good pile of pics of some great animals....I like it!

[ram crazy]

Well your just shooting to high man get it a little lower!!! Did you get that sheep on video. I'd pay to see that one.

[full_throttle]

Originally Posted by chuck

Here is a Mule Deer that I shot at 390 yds. You can see the exit wound and it missed the shoulder knuckle by literally less than an inch. That resulted in a highish double lung shot and that buck trotted nearly 300 yds before going down. I want low lung top of the heart and bone if I can get it for that very reason. Oh and I had two witnesses and it's on film.

That thing still has milk on his lips.

[Stinky Coyote]

not to change the subject or anything but a ballistic tip would have anchored that thing on the spot

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

not to change the subject or anything but a ballistic tip would have anchored that thing on the spot

So would have a shoulder shot
Weren't we talking about Brown Bears anyhow?

Originally Posted by chuck

Here is a Mule Deer that I shot at 390 yds. You can see the exit wound and it missed the shoulder knuckle by literally less than an inch. That resulted in a highish double lung shot and that buck trotted nearly 300 yds before going down. I want low lung top of the heart and bone if I can get it for that very reason. Oh and I had two witnesses and it's on film.

]

So are you saying you missed where you were aiming? I'm not sure what your point is.

[full_throttle]

Maybe its because he shoots the other way ? Or he could blame it on the Kimber .